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Thoughts on Kelvin Benjamin?
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Suffering_Bills


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:53 am    Post subject: Thoughts on Kelvin Benjamin? Reply with quote

Such as, draft ceiling/floor? Upside? Teams that could target him?
Pretty interesting prospect, to say the least.
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the Reggie Williams comparison.
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Suffering_Bills


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
I like the Reggie Williams comparison.

Not familiar with that guy...
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IvyLeague


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obvious physical gifts (6'5"/235, can run) but he drops some easy passes. How much does he want to be a great WR at the next level. If I'm a team that believes he's going to work his butt off and want to improve, I'd be fine with spending a 1st Round pick on him. But sometimes I don't see the super competiveness you see in a Watkins, Lee, Matthews, etc. He's got some bust potential.
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suffering_Bills wrote:
jshowers wrote:
I like the Reggie Williams comparison.

Not familiar with that guy...


WR drafted 9th overall out of Washington in 2004. Went about 6'4" and 225 pounds. Ran in the high 4.5/low 4.6 range.

He was a bust. Could never keep up consistent production. Flashed at times, but too up and down. He's out of football and last played in the CFL.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical "beastly physical metrics, inconsistent production and very raw" type guy. Very high ceiling, very low floor. Will be overdrafted based on physical tools. He's inconsistent; dominate at times and disappear at times. Average hands; drops a lot of catchable balls in my opinion. Definitely has the size and speed to be a vertical threat in the NFL, and is actually pretty good about using his size in order to box out defenders on intermediate routes like crossing patterns and fade patterns. Could be a beastly red zone target. Not technically precise in his routes, and I don't think he's particularly smooth in and out of his breaks and cuts, which could create separation problems at the NFL level because while he'll run fast for a guy of his size, it's not "elite" low 4.4 type speed and when he's matching up against physical corners who run in the mid 4.4's, that could create issues.

As for who is going to look at him? That depends on where he's going to be drafted. I feel like he's a third round prospect because I don't think he gives you much for at least a year, but I believe after his workouts and everything, he'll end up being a late first round pick or early second round picks just because someone will fall in love with his tools similar to Stephen Hill a couple of years ago (not saying they are the same receiver; just saying that they are both raw, toolsy guys who were overdrafted). I could see the 49ers looking at him toward the end of round one, the Jets early in round two depending on what they do with their first round pick. The Browns could look at him with either their late first rounder or their early second rounder. Seattle could be another landing spot if they lose Golden Tate and cut Rice. I don't believe KC is a legitimate landing spot depsite the help they need at the position simply because I think they'll fill that through free agency and go hard after Jeremy Maclin, who is an Andy Reid guy and a really good fit at wide receiver for a quarterback like Smith.

Right now, I probably have him rated lower than most do, just because I'm not a huge fan of raw, boom or bust type guys with limited production. I'd much rather have Lee, Matthews, Robinson, Cooks, Beckham and Landry in that same area, and probably even Adams (though I have similar concerns with Adams as I do with Benjamin)
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PowerElite


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see him being able to fail in the NFL. He would have to play for a moron that misuses him and/or not give a damn about the game and just collect his check and live like a star off the field. He's a superior blocker, he tosses defensive backs around. It would be easy for him to develop into a TE that splits out most of the time. He has so much versatility and imposing physical ability that he is the only person that can stop him. He has the agility of a WR with the strength of a 3-4 OLB. The guy can be an exceptional weapon if moved around the formation something like a Slot/TE/HBack.
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Suffering_Bills


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
I don't see him being able to fail in the NFL. He would have to play for a moron that misuses him and/or not give a damn about the game and just collect his check and live like a star off the field. He's a superior blocker, he tosses defensive backs around. It would be easy for him to develop into a TE that splits out most of the time. He has so much versatility and imposing physical ability that he is the only person that can stop him. He has the agility of a WR with the strength of a 3-4 OLB. The guy can be an exceptional weapon if moved around the formation something like a Slot/TE/HBack.

Agreed. How he's used will determine how well he does.
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Suffering_Bills


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
Typical "beastly physical metrics, inconsistent production and very raw" type guy. Very high ceiling, very low floor. Will be overdrafted based on physical tools. He's inconsistent; dominate at times and disappear at times. Average hands; drops a lot of catchable balls in my opinion. Definitely has the size and speed to be a vertical threat in the NFL, and is actually pretty good about using his size in order to box out defenders on intermediate routes like crossing patterns and fade patterns. Could be a beastly red zone target. Not technically precise in his routes, and I don't think he's particularly smooth in and out of his breaks and cuts, which could create separation problems at the NFL level because while he'll run fast for a guy of his size, it's not "elite" low 4.4 type speed and when he's matching up against physical corners who run in the mid 4.4's, that could create issues.

As for who is going to look at him? That depends on where he's going to be drafted. I feel like he's a third round prospect because I don't think he gives you much for at least a year, but I believe after his workouts and everything, he'll end up being a late first round pick or early second round picks just because someone will fall in love with his tools similar to Stephen Hill a couple of years ago (not saying they are the same receiver; just saying that they are both raw, toolsy guys who were overdrafted). I could see the 49ers looking at him toward the end of round one, the Jets early in round two depending on what they do with their first round pick. The Browns could look at him with either their late first rounder or their early second rounder. Seattle could be another landing spot if they lose Golden Tate and cut Rice. I don't believe KC is a legitimate landing spot depsite the help they need at the position simply because I think they'll fill that through free agency and go hard after Jeremy Maclin, who is an Andy Reid guy and a really good fit at wide receiver for a quarterback like Smith.

Right now, I probably have him rated lower than most do, just because I'm not a huge fan of raw, boom or bust type guys with limited production. I'd much rather have Lee, Matthews, Robinson, Cooks, Beckham and Landry in that same area, and probably even Adams (though I have similar concerns with Adams as I do with Benjamin)

Nice write-up. Agree with most of your points, but I wouldn't take Cooks over Benjamin. Or Landry.
I mean, just for the red-zone threat ALONE...
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
I don't see him being able to fail in the NFL. He would have to play for a moron that misuses him and/or not give a damn about the game and just collect his check and live like a star off the field. He's a superior blocker, he tosses defensive backs around. It would be easy for him to develop into a TE that splits out most of the time. He has so much versatility and imposing physical ability that he is the only person that can stop him. He has the agility of a WR with the strength of a 3-4 OLB. The guy can be an exceptional weapon if moved around the formation something like a Slot/TE/HBack.


You don't see him being able to fail in the NFL?

Benjamin as a TE/H-Back?

Someone is drinking the kool-aid....
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suffering_Bills wrote:
Forge wrote:
Typical "beastly physical metrics, inconsistent production and very raw" type guy. Very high ceiling, very low floor. Will be overdrafted based on physical tools. He's inconsistent; dominate at times and disappear at times. Average hands; drops a lot of catchable balls in my opinion. Definitely has the size and speed to be a vertical threat in the NFL, and is actually pretty good about using his size in order to box out defenders on intermediate routes like crossing patterns and fade patterns. Could be a beastly red zone target. Not technically precise in his routes, and I don't think he's particularly smooth in and out of his breaks and cuts, which could create separation problems at the NFL level because while he'll run fast for a guy of his size, it's not "elite" low 4.4 type speed and when he's matching up against physical corners who run in the mid 4.4's, that could create issues.

As for who is going to look at him? That depends on where he's going to be drafted. I feel like he's a third round prospect because I don't think he gives you much for at least a year, but I believe after his workouts and everything, he'll end up being a late first round pick or early second round picks just because someone will fall in love with his tools similar to Stephen Hill a couple of years ago (not saying they are the same receiver; just saying that they are both raw, toolsy guys who were overdrafted). I could see the 49ers looking at him toward the end of round one, the Jets early in round two depending on what they do with their first round pick. The Browns could look at him with either their late first rounder or their early second rounder. Seattle could be another landing spot if they lose Golden Tate and cut Rice. I don't believe KC is a legitimate landing spot depsite the help they need at the position simply because I think they'll fill that through free agency and go hard after Jeremy Maclin, who is an Andy Reid guy and a really good fit at wide receiver for a quarterback like Smith.

Right now, I probably have him rated lower than most do, just because I'm not a huge fan of raw, boom or bust type guys with limited production. I'd much rather have Lee, Matthews, Robinson, Cooks, Beckham and Landry in that same area, and probably even Adams (though I have similar concerns with Adams as I do with Benjamin)

Nice write-up. Agree with most of your points, but I wouldn't take Cooks over Benjamin. Or Landry.
I mean, just for the red-zone threat ALONE...


Cooks is a great red zone threat.
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PowerElite


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
PowerElite wrote:
I don't see him being able to fail in the NFL. He would have to play for a moron that misuses him and/or not give a damn about the game and just collect his check and live like a star off the field. He's a superior blocker, he tosses defensive backs around. It would be easy for him to develop into a TE that splits out most of the time. He has so much versatility and imposing physical ability that he is the only person that can stop him. He has the agility of a WR with the strength of a 3-4 OLB. The guy can be an exceptional weapon if moved around the formation something like a Slot/TE/HBack.


You don't see him being able to fail in the NFL?

Benjamin as a TE/H-Back?

Someone is drinking the kool-aid....


I've never heard anyone speak of him having TE/H Back potential on top of WR ability BESIDES MYSELF. So if it's Kool-Aid, it's my own. #NoJimJones
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Suffering_Bills


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
Suffering_Bills wrote:
Forge wrote:
Typical "beastly physical metrics, inconsistent production and very raw" type guy. Very high ceiling, very low floor. Will be overdrafted based on physical tools. He's inconsistent; dominate at times and disappear at times. Average hands; drops a lot of catchable balls in my opinion. Definitely has the size and speed to be a vertical threat in the NFL, and is actually pretty good about using his size in order to box out defenders on intermediate routes like crossing patterns and fade patterns. Could be a beastly red zone target. Not technically precise in his routes, and I don't think he's particularly smooth in and out of his breaks and cuts, which could create separation problems at the NFL level because while he'll run fast for a guy of his size, it's not "elite" low 4.4 type speed and when he's matching up against physical corners who run in the mid 4.4's, that could create issues.

As for who is going to look at him? That depends on where he's going to be drafted. I feel like he's a third round prospect because I don't think he gives you much for at least a year, but I believe after his workouts and everything, he'll end up being a late first round pick or early second round picks just because someone will fall in love with his tools similar to Stephen Hill a couple of years ago (not saying they are the same receiver; just saying that they are both raw, toolsy guys who were overdrafted). I could see the 49ers looking at him toward the end of round one, the Jets early in round two depending on what they do with their first round pick. The Browns could look at him with either their late first rounder or their early second rounder. Seattle could be another landing spot if they lose Golden Tate and cut Rice. I don't believe KC is a legitimate landing spot depsite the help they need at the position simply because I think they'll fill that through free agency and go hard after Jeremy Maclin, who is an Andy Reid guy and a really good fit at wide receiver for a quarterback like Smith.

Right now, I probably have him rated lower than most do, just because I'm not a huge fan of raw, boom or bust type guys with limited production. I'd much rather have Lee, Matthews, Robinson, Cooks, Beckham and Landry in that same area, and probably even Adams (though I have similar concerns with Adams as I do with Benjamin)

Nice write-up. Agree with most of your points, but I wouldn't take Cooks over Benjamin. Or Landry.
I mean, just for the red-zone threat ALONE...


Cooks is a great red zone threat.

Moreso than Benjamin, in your opinion?
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suffering_Bills wrote:
jshowers wrote:
Suffering_Bills wrote:
Forge wrote:
Typical "beastly physical metrics, inconsistent production and very raw" type guy. Very high ceiling, very low floor. Will be overdrafted based on physical tools. He's inconsistent; dominate at times and disappear at times. Average hands; drops a lot of catchable balls in my opinion. Definitely has the size and speed to be a vertical threat in the NFL, and is actually pretty good about using his size in order to box out defenders on intermediate routes like crossing patterns and fade patterns. Could be a beastly red zone target. Not technically precise in his routes, and I don't think he's particularly smooth in and out of his breaks and cuts, which could create separation problems at the NFL level because while he'll run fast for a guy of his size, it's not "elite" low 4.4 type speed and when he's matching up against physical corners who run in the mid 4.4's, that could create issues.

As for who is going to look at him? That depends on where he's going to be drafted. I feel like he's a third round prospect because I don't think he gives you much for at least a year, but I believe after his workouts and everything, he'll end up being a late first round pick or early second round picks just because someone will fall in love with his tools similar to Stephen Hill a couple of years ago (not saying they are the same receiver; just saying that they are both raw, toolsy guys who were overdrafted). I could see the 49ers looking at him toward the end of round one, the Jets early in round two depending on what they do with their first round pick. The Browns could look at him with either their late first rounder or their early second rounder. Seattle could be another landing spot if they lose Golden Tate and cut Rice. I don't believe KC is a legitimate landing spot depsite the help they need at the position simply because I think they'll fill that through free agency and go hard after Jeremy Maclin, who is an Andy Reid guy and a really good fit at wide receiver for a quarterback like Smith.

Right now, I probably have him rated lower than most do, just because I'm not a huge fan of raw, boom or bust type guys with limited production. I'd much rather have Lee, Matthews, Robinson, Cooks, Beckham and Landry in that same area, and probably even Adams (though I have similar concerns with Adams as I do with Benjamin)

Nice write-up. Agree with most of your points, but I wouldn't take Cooks over Benjamin. Or Landry.
I mean, just for the red-zone threat ALONE...


Cooks is a great red zone threat.

Moreso than Benjamin, in your opinion?


They are different. Cooks will work his way open on slants, quick outs, tunnel or bubble screens, and sticks. Benjamin will be used as a fade guy. I know he scored on a slant in the Natty Championship but his tall frame and long strides will make sifting through tight traffic over the middle difficult for him.

Overall I think Cooks is the better receiver.
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green24


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Floor: Jon Baldwin or Mike Williams (USC)
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