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Tony Sparano has signed a 2 year contract
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
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Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Kind of sad to think that Bergstrom may have possibly been even worse than Nix if he were given a chance in the regular season. Undoubtedly he would have gotten a look though. Wish he didn't get hurt so we could at least see what he was capable of.


All I know is Bergstrom looked pretty solid at LG from what I saw in preaseason. Nix's natural position is RG and he moved back when Barnes went to LG.


Both of them are garbage and we need to upgrade both. We are grasping at straws if we think they will be even serviceable.
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RaiderX


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Kind of sad to think that Bergstrom may have possibly been even worse than Nix if he were given a chance in the regular season. Undoubtedly he would have gotten a look though. Wish he didn't get hurt so we could at least see what he was capable of.


All I know is Bergstrom looked pretty solid at LG from what I saw in preaseason. Nix's natural position is RG and he moved back when Barnes went to LG.


Both of them are garbage and we need to upgrade both. We are grasping at straws if we think they will be even serviceable.


Nix should be gone. Really haven't seen enough of Bergstrom to truly evaluate him, but I think he could at least compete at LG.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5948
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Kind of sad to think that Bergstrom may have possibly been even worse than Nix if he were given a chance in the regular season. Undoubtedly he would have gotten a look though. Wish he didn't get hurt so we could at least see what he was capable of.


All I know is Bergstrom looked pretty solid at LG from what I saw in preaseason. Nix's natural position is RG and he moved back when Barnes went to LG.


Both of them are garbage and we need to upgrade both. We are grasping at straws if we think they will be even serviceable.


Nix should be gone. Really haven't seen enough of Bergstrom to truly evaluate him, but I think he could at least compete at LG.

So the guy playing out of position should be gone but the guy he BEAT consistently heads up at the position he was drafted for will be competitive? Rolling Eyes
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teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

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Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8914
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Kind of sad to think that Bergstrom may have possibly been even worse than Nix if he were given a chance in the regular season. Undoubtedly he would have gotten a look though. Wish he didn't get hurt so we could at least see what he was capable of.


All I know is Bergstrom looked pretty solid at LG from what I saw in preaseason. Nix's natural position is RG and he moved back when Barnes went to LG.


Both of them are garbage and we need to upgrade both. We are grasping at straws if we think they will be even serviceable.


Nix should be gone. Really haven't seen enough of Bergstrom to truly evaluate him, but I think he could at least compete at LG.

So the guy playing out of position should be gone but the guy he BEAT consistently heads up at the position he was drafted for will be competitive? Rolling Eyes

I really dont think Nix beat out Bergstrom this season. If you go by what we saw in actual games from each player and not by opinion's of beat writters based of how many practice snaps each guy got.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Kind of sad to think that Bergstrom may have possibly been even worse than Nix if he were given a chance in the regular season. Undoubtedly he would have gotten a look though. Wish he didn't get hurt so we could at least see what he was capable of.


All I know is Bergstrom looked pretty solid at LG from what I saw in preaseason. Nix's natural position is RG and he moved back when Barnes went to LG.


Both of them are garbage and we need to upgrade both. We are grasping at straws if we think they will be even serviceable.


Nix should be gone. Really haven't seen enough of Bergstrom to truly evaluate him, but I think he could at least compete at LG.

So the guy playing out of position should be gone but the guy he BEAT consistently heads up at the position he was drafted for will be competitive? Rolling Eyes

I really dont think Nix beat out Bergstrom this season. If you go by what we saw in actual games from each player and not by opinion's of beat writters based of how many practice snaps each guy got.


Wouldn't the coaching staff give the guy they think is better more snaps? Or at least the guy they think will start? The beat writer is just the guy who notices who the staff gives more chances. I don't know why this is still going on, we're debating which is worse between diarrhea and puke. The fact is that if the staff agreed that Bergstrom was that much better then he would have gotten the chances that Nix got. But he didn't. Tony Sparano didn't think that and I'm going by what he thinks. Again, this whole discussion is worthless. But if it makes you all feel better: I don't know if Berg would have played as bad as Nix did during the season.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8914
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Kind of sad to think that Bergstrom may have possibly been even worse than Nix if he were given a chance in the regular season. Undoubtedly he would have gotten a look though. Wish he didn't get hurt so we could at least see what he was capable of.


All I know is Bergstrom looked pretty solid at LG from what I saw in preaseason. Nix's natural position is RG and he moved back when Barnes went to LG.


Both of them are garbage and we need to upgrade both. We are grasping at straws if we think they will be even serviceable.


Nix should be gone. Really haven't seen enough of Bergstrom to truly evaluate him, but I think he could at least compete at LG.

So the guy playing out of position should be gone but the guy he BEAT consistently heads up at the position he was drafted for will be competitive? Rolling Eyes

I really dont think Nix beat out Bergstrom this season. If you go by what we saw in actual games from each player and not by opinion's of beat writters based of how many practice snaps each guy got.


Wouldn't the coaching staff give the guy they think is better more snaps? Or at least the guy they think will start? The beat writer is just the guy who notices who the staff gives more chances. I don't know why this is still going on, we're debating which is worse between diarrhea and puke. The fact is that if the staff agreed that Bergstrom was that much better then he would have gotten the chances that Nix got. But he didn't. Tony Sparano didn't think that and I'm going by what he thinks. Again, this whole discussion is worthless. But if it makes you all feel better: I don't know if Berg would have played as bad as Nix did during the season.

It is quite obvious they try to light fires under guys with reps in training camp. There were several. I think Maivia had ton of snaps. Kluwe more than King for sure. Wilson more than McGloin(a little different there though). Heck Barron had more snaps than anyone at LT and they still had Barnes start in front of him. Bilikidi and Bass all got more snaps than most of the DE and DT's and they just flat out got released.

Now not saying Bergstrom is bonified starter. Just thought he looked much better than Nix even at the time. If he continues to improve he might have a chance to start. Worst case I think he will be a much better backup for us and that is all I am counting on. Definatley want to pick someone up in FA.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I'd just cut Nix before TC and have Berg compete with whoever we get for LG. We know Nix sucks at least. We can find someone else who can at least give the same production. I think Bergstrom can at least be that guy.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Honestly I'd just cut Nix before TC and have Berg compete with whoever we get for LG. We know Nix sucks at least. We can find someone else who can at least give the same production. I think Bergstrom can at least be that guy.

I agree. Nix had his chance. This year is Bergs chance to prove that at the very least he can be a backup.
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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Location: Long Beach, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparano needs to get the most out of Watson and Bergstrom. If he can make them into good players well have a nice OL
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5948
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Honestly I'd just cut Nix before TC and have Berg compete with whoever we get for LG. We know Nix sucks at least. We can find someone else who can at least give the same production. I think Bergstrom can at least be that guy.

I agree. Nix had his chance. This year is Bergs chance to prove that at the very least he can be a backup.


And this is where I step in . . .

At least S&B88 is willing to capitulate given a preponderance of evidence. Let me get my handy dandy checklist out:
Things we don't believe in:
stats (check. Unless they support our position of course)
beat writers who were actually AT the camps (check)
scouts that get paid to evaluate (check)
coaches (check)
depth charts (check)

What we do believe in:
Ye ole' eye ball (even though you are not a professional and scouting through game feed.)
I've been at this a long time but even I have to depend on others sometimes to help me decipher what I am watching. S&B88 admitted a few years ago he didn't know OL receive a grade after every game nor how they determine the grade. So how is it now you can distinguish his superior play over anyone? But I digress as I have given you credit for least admitting that Bergs may just suck.

Tib, however, just so I have this narrative straight because this entertains me. The Raiders draft what they believe at the time is the "best ZBS OG" in the draft as Bergstrom was referred. Bergs gets no time as rookie although it's anticipated that he should contribute heavily since he is the best ZBS OG in the 2012 draft. The blocking scheme changes in 2013. So in order to motivate Bergs the staff gives valuable reps (as they were changing the offense) to an UDFA playing out of position to motivate Bergs.

Ok, question: What is more alarming? The fact that Bergs couldn't significantly separate his play from an UDFA RG or that he needed to be motivated at all?

In addition, exactly how did Nix get his shot?? He isn't a LG and in his ONE shot starting at RG in a live game he was serviceable. It's a good thing Veldheer wasn't graded by his play at OC when he filled in during an emergency in 2011.

This is a clear case of draft pick bias. Bergs sucks wake up and it didn't take 3 years to figure it out.
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Nodisrespect on building inside out wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 4159
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Honestly I'd just cut Nix before TC and have Berg compete with whoever we get for LG. We know Nix sucks at least. We can find someone else who can at least give the same production. I think Bergstrom can at least be that guy.

I agree. Nix had his chance. This year is Bergs chance to prove that at the very least he can be a backup.


And this is where I step in . . .

At least S&B88 is willing to capitulate given a preponderance of evidence. Let me get my handy dandy checklist out:
Things we don't believe in:
stats (check. Unless they support our position of course)
beat writers who were actually AT the camps (check)
scouts that get paid to evaluate (check)
coaches (check)
depth charts (check)

What we do believe in:
Ye ole' eye ball (even though you are not a professional and scouting through game feed.)
I've been at this a long time but even I have to depend on others sometimes to help me decipher what I am watching. S&B88 admitted a few years ago he didn't know OL receive a grade after every game nor how they determine the grade. So how is it now you can distinguish his superior play over anyone? But I digress as I have given you credit for least admitting that Bergs may just suck.

Tib, however, just so I have this narrative straight because this entertains me. The Raiders draft what they believe at the time is the "best ZBS OG" in the draft as Bergstrom was referred. Bergs gets no time as rookie although it's anticipated that he should contribute heavily since he is the best ZBS OG in the 2012 draft. The blocking scheme changes in 2013. So in order to motivate Bergs the staff gives valuable reps (as they were changing the offense) to an UDFA playing out of position to motivate Bergs.

Ok, question: What is more alarming? The fact that Bergs couldn't significantly separate his play from an UDFA RG or that he needed to be motivated at all?

In addition, exactly how did Nix get his shot?? He isn't a LG and in his ONE shot starting at RG in a live game he was serviceable. It's a good thing Veldheer wasn't graded by his play at OC when he filled in during an emergency in 2011.

This is a clear case of draft pick bias. Bergs sucks wake up and it didn't take 3 years to figure it out.
Barnes is not a LG and was worlds better than Nix, he sucks get over it.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
At least S&B88 is willing to capitulate given a preponderance of evidence

Because its really a moot point anyway and I didn't feel like beating a dead horse. If someone doesn't want to believe the evidence I give them then I can't do anything about it other than waste my time.

Quote:
S&B88 admitted a few years ago he didn't know OL receive a grade after every game nor how they determine the grade.

True, I didn't. I'm still no expert at analyzing players on film but I've gotten a lot better than I used to be. Point is, if you don't understand what you're talking about then sit back and learn.
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THE MAD STORK


Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 582
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Honestly I'd just cut Nix before TC and have Berg compete with whoever we get for LG. We know Nix sucks at least. We can find someone else who can at least give the same production. I think Bergstrom can at least be that guy.

I agree. Nix had his chance. This year is Bergs chance to prove that at the very least he can be a backup.


And this is where I step in . . .

At least S&B88 is willing to capitulate given a preponderance of evidence. Let me get my handy dandy checklist out:
Things we don't believe in:
stats (check. Unless they support our position of course)
beat writers who were actually AT the camps (check)
scouts that get paid to evaluate (check)
coaches (check)
depth charts (check)

What we do believe in:
Ye ole' eye ball (even though you are not a professional and scouting through game feed.)
I've been at this a long time but even I have to depend on others sometimes to help me decipher what I am watching. S&B88 admitted a few years ago he didn't know OL receive a grade after every game nor how they determine the grade. So how is it now you can distinguish his superior play over anyone? But I digress as I have given you credit for least admitting that Bergs may just suck.

Tib, however, just so I have this narrative straight because this entertains me. The Raiders draft what they believe at the time is the "best ZBS OG" in the draft as Bergstrom was referred. Bergs gets no time as rookie although it's anticipated that he should contribute heavily since he is the best ZBS OG in the 2012 draft. The blocking scheme changes in 2013. So in order to motivate Bergs the staff gives valuable reps (as they were changing the offense) to an UDFA playing out of position to motivate Bergs.

Ok, question: What is more alarming? The fact that Bergs couldn't significantly separate his play from an UDFA RG or that he needed to be motivated at all?

In addition, exactly how did Nix get his shot?? He isn't a LG and in his ONE shot starting at RG in a live game he was serviceable. It's a good thing Veldheer wasn't graded by his play at OC when he filled in during an emergency in 2011.

This is a clear case of draft pick bias. Bergs sucks wake up and it didn't take 3 years to figure it out.
Barnes is not a LG and was worlds better than Nix, he sucks get over it.


"I realized when I hired you that you were young and inexperienced and that there would be a learning process for you. I realize that you did not want to draft JaMarcus Russell. He is a great player, get over it."
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5948
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Barnes is not a LG and was worlds better than Nix, he sucks get over it.

That's the whole point! Nix isn't coming back at LG! and yes he DOES suck . . . but he's better than Bergs so get over it. (At least now I understand a bit more, obviously many are under the impression that Nix is coming back at LG. That ain't gonna happen)
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Nodisrespect on building inside out wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 4159
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Barnes is not a LG and was worlds better than Nix, he sucks get over it.

That's the whole point! Nix isn't coming back at LG! and yes he DOES suck . . . but he's better than Bergs so get over it. (At least now I understand a bit more, obviously many are under the impression that Nix is coming back at LG. That ain't gonna happen)
I agree Berg sucks too hence why we should draft a guard and sign at least one in FA.
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