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Tony Sparano has signed a 2 year contract
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FA C Mack.
Wiz to LG
JV resigned
Berg and Nix compete at RG with Watson and Barnes competing at RT.
Maybe Pathos comes back and Barnes plays G.
I'd rather Wiz be a starting guard/back up center.
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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
DirtyHarry wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
OakleyCap wrote:
We need to upgrade both guard spots this offseason. I wouldn't be opposed to taking Greg Robinson with our pick and then sliding Watson inside to RG and then finding a quality free agent LG. That'd literally give us a quality player at every single spot on the offensive line. Then use the rest of our draft/cap space to go after playmakers on both sides of the ball and we have some solid units.
Enough shuffling Watson is our RT, lets just bring in some quality guards that actually play guard.
yea kinda hard to be our rt in the training room.

In the two years he played in college he was healthy for what it's worth. Il go as far as saying his 2013 season was fluky.


I wouldn't call it a fluke but I wouldn't say he's injury prone either. I think he just wasn't prepared for the NFL. Like he didn't know how to properly take care of his body. Hopefully he doesn't become injury prone as a result of everything he went through this year. Especially his ankle.


get out of my head. imo his lack of experience doesnt just effect his craft but his body also. imo he wasnt ready for the rigorous nfl season.
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


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justwinbaby81


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love it. He will make a good head coach for us in two seasons.
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RaiderX


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Kind of sad to think that Bergstrom may have possibly been even worse than Nix if he were given a chance in the regular season. Undoubtedly he would have gotten a look though. Wish he didn't get hurt so we could at least see what he was capable of.


All I know is Bergstrom looked pretty solid at LG from what I saw in preaseason. Nix's natural position is RG and he moved back when Barnes went to LG.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
get out of my head. imo his lack of experience doesnt just effect his craft but his body also. imo he wasnt ready for the rigorous nfl season.

Agreed. Hopefully he figures everything out for the future because I think he can be a good OL for us.

RaiderX wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Kind of sad to think that Bergstrom may have possibly been even worse than Nix if he were given a chance in the regular season. Undoubtedly he would have gotten a look though. Wish he didn't get hurt so we could at least see what he was capable of.


All I know is Bergstrom looked pretty solid at LG from what I saw in preaseason. Nix's natural position is RG and he moved back when Barnes went to LG.


Idk, I guess the coaches disagreed at one point or another. Regardless, I doubt either of these guys is going to be anything more than a scrub. I'd like to be proven wrong though.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
get out of my head. imo his lack of experience doesnt just effect his craft but his body also. imo he wasnt ready for the rigorous nfl season.

Agreed. Hopefully he figures everything out for the future because I think he can be a good OL for us.



yea he looked great vrs sea then slumped in the reg season
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
get out of my head. imo his lack of experience doesnt just effect his craft but his body also. imo he wasnt ready for the rigorous nfl season.

Agreed. Hopefully he figures everything out for the future because I think he can be a good OL for us.



yea he looked great vrs sea then slumped in the reg season


Probably all the disruption in practicing while also being a raw rookie. Definitely intrigued to see Watson play next year.
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Speed_Wrench


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
Love it. He will make a good head coach for us in two seasons.


Ummmm no. if the team still stinks in 2 years I would be willing to bet we have a whole "cleaning house" situation and no one will escape the axe.
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BNich0622


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
BNich0622 wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Guy worked magic last year with the OLine mess.

Silver can suck it. His boy Hue finally got a coordinator job after 2 seasons (even though it was basically handed down to him after Gruden left).


Yet everyone still complained that no matter who was at Quarterback had to run for their life every snap.

So which one is it?!


This is just wrong. Let me refresh your memory:

Jared Veldheer was supposed to start going into the season and ended up tearing his triceps. Remember? Then Watson was supposed to play LT. And subsequently got hurt too. Which caused Khalif Barnes to move from RT and play LT. So we ended up signing a street FA.

Simultaneously, Bergstrom and Nix were having a contest to see who could play worse. Which was deadlocked until Berg got hurt. Andre Gurode inexplicably got in the mix too....until Stefen Wisnewski got hurt too. Then Gurode got hurt too.

Basically, the offensive line was doomed the entire year until about the end due to injuries and the resulting lack of chemistry.

Of course, it didn't help that we started the season with 2 QBs with the most pathetic pocket awareness I've seen in a long time. One can run at least, but he also chooses to hold the ball longer than any other QB because he can't make reads. At least he ran backwards too. Its funny to me that a UDFA played so much better than the other 2 guys. And he didn't even play that good for an NFL QB. Not that its really fair to expect him to, but he played how he played.

Anyway, it was a perfect storm this year and our OL looked a lot better when everyone got healthier and McG came in. With some stability and some personnel additions, I expect it to get much better. Just the fact that our QBs didn't get killed was impressive with the constant shuffle with the players. Save for TP, but then again he does tend to expose himself.


Let me refresh your memory in case you forgot my question. There was no talent. If a guy was to work magic wouldn't you think the line would play relatively decent compared to their talent level or lack there of? And many on here constantly complained of no protection and quarterbacks running for their life every snap.

So now, you tell me. How can that be considered working magic with the OL?
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RaiderX


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BNich0622 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
BNich0622 wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Guy worked magic last year with the OLine mess.

Silver can suck it. His boy Hue finally got a coordinator job after 2 seasons (even though it was basically handed down to him after Gruden left).


Yet everyone still complained that no matter who was at Quarterback had to run for their life every snap.

So which one is it?!


This is just wrong. Let me refresh your memory:

Jared Veldheer was supposed to start going into the season and ended up tearing his triceps. Remember? Then Watson was supposed to play LT. And subsequently got hurt too. Which caused Khalif Barnes to move from RT and play LT. So we ended up signing a street FA.

Simultaneously, Bergstrom and Nix were having a contest to see who could play worse. Which was deadlocked until Berg got hurt. Andre Gurode inexplicably got in the mix too....until Stefen Wisnewski got hurt too. Then Gurode got hurt too.

Basically, the offensive line was doomed the entire year until about the end due to injuries and the resulting lack of chemistry.

Of course, it didn't help that we started the season with 2 QBs with the most pathetic pocket awareness I've seen in a long time. One can run at least, but he also chooses to hold the ball longer than any other QB because he can't make reads. At least he ran backwards too. Its funny to me that a UDFA played so much better than the other 2 guys. And he didn't even play that good for an NFL QB. Not that its really fair to expect him to, but he played how he played.

Anyway, it was a perfect storm this year and our OL looked a lot better when everyone got healthier and McG came in. With some stability and some personnel additions, I expect it to get much better. Just the fact that our QBs didn't get killed was impressive with the constant shuffle with the players. Save for TP, but then again he does tend to expose himself.


Let me refresh your memory in case you forgot my question. There was no talent. If a guy was to work magic wouldn't you think the line would play relatively decent compared to their talent level or lack there of? And many on here constantly complained of no protection and quarterbacks running for their life every snap.

So now, you tell me. How can that be considered working magic with the OL?


You misunderstood what I said. Given the injury situation and consistent shuffling, the line wasn't as awful as we expected. Good? No. But at the very least decent in the run game. I mean moving from opposite sides, backups going down, signing PS players, etc. He made them look acceptable at times. They still struggled plenty, but it wasn't as awful as we expected. Also factor in Pryor's terrible pocket awareness.
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justwinbaby81


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed_Wrench wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
Love it. He will make a good head coach for us in two seasons.


Ummmm no. if the team still stinks in 2 years I would be willing to bet we have a whole "cleaning house" situation and no one will escape the axe.


2 years from now is irrelevant. It's only next year for DA. I am saying entering the 2015 season Sparano would be HC. And if the o-line does great you don't have to fire him just because DA sucks.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
BNich0622 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
BNich0622 wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Guy worked magic last year with the OLine mess.

Silver can suck it. His boy Hue finally got a coordinator job after 2 seasons (even though it was basically handed down to him after Gruden left).


Yet everyone still complained that no matter who was at Quarterback had to run for their life every snap.

So which one is it?!


This is just wrong. Let me refresh your memory:

Jared Veldheer was supposed to start going into the season and ended up tearing his triceps. Remember? Then Watson was supposed to play LT. And subsequently got hurt too. Which caused Khalif Barnes to move from RT and play LT. So we ended up signing a street FA.

Simultaneously, Bergstrom and Nix were having a contest to see who could play worse. Which was deadlocked until Berg got hurt. Andre Gurode inexplicably got in the mix too....until Stefen Wisnewski got hurt too. Then Gurode got hurt too.

Basically, the offensive line was doomed the entire year until about the end due to injuries and the resulting lack of chemistry.

Of course, it didn't help that we started the season with 2 QBs with the most pathetic pocket awareness I've seen in a long time. One can run at least, but he also chooses to hold the ball longer than any other QB because he can't make reads. At least he ran backwards too. Its funny to me that a UDFA played so much better than the other 2 guys. And he didn't even play that good for an NFL QB. Not that its really fair to expect him to, but he played how he played.

Anyway, it was a perfect storm this year and our OL looked a lot better when everyone got healthier and McG came in. With some stability and some personnel additions, I expect it to get much better. Just the fact that our QBs didn't get killed was impressive with the constant shuffle with the players. Save for TP, but then again he does tend to expose himself.


Let me refresh your memory in case you forgot my question. There was no talent. If a guy was to work magic wouldn't you think the line would play relatively decent compared to their talent level or lack there of? And many on here constantly complained of no protection and quarterbacks running for their life every snap.

So now, you tell me. How can that be considered working magic with the OL?


You misunderstood what I said. Given the injury situation and consistent shuffling, the line wasn't as awful as we expected. Good? No. But at the very least decent in the run game. I mean moving from opposite sides, backups going down, signing PS players, etc. He made them look acceptable at times. They still struggled plenty, but it wasn't as awful as we expected. Also factor in Pryor's terrible pocket awareness.


Exactly. I don't know how it gets by people exactly how bad our offensive line situation was. The fact that it wasn't worse alone is astounding.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:

Jared Veldheer was supposed to start going into the season and ended up tearing his triceps. Remember? Then Watson was supposed to play LT. And subsequently got hurt too. Which caused Khalif Barnes to move from RT and play LT. So we ended up signing a street FA.

Simultaneously, Bergstrom and Nix were having a contest to see who could play worse. Which was deadlocked until Berg got hurt. Andre Gurode inexplicably got in the mix too....until Stefen Wisnewski got hurt too. Then Gurode got hurt too.

Basically, the offensive line was doomed the entire year until about the end due to injuries and the resulting lack of chemistry.

Of course, it didn't help that we started the season with 2 QBs with the most pathetic pocket awareness I've seen in a long time. One can run at least, but he also chooses to hold the ball longer than any other QB because he can't make reads. At least he ran backwards too. Its funny to me that a UDFA played so much better than the other 2 guys. And he didn't even play that good for an NFL QB. Not that its really fair to expect him to, but he played how he played.

Anyway, it was a perfect storm this year and our OL looked a lot better when everyone got healthier and McG came in. With some stability and some personnel additions, I expect it to get much better. Just the fact that our QBs didn't get killed was impressive with the constant shuffle with the players. Save for TP, but then again he does tend to expose himself.


Very good post S&B!

It was the perfect storm of inneptitude, but once we had a QB in there with a quick release and decent pocket awareness the OL didn't look terrible, not great certainly but not terrible.

We have 3 solid players in Wiz, Veldheer and Watson to build with. Barnes has sold me on his versatility as a back up and McCants/Pashos could be backup options too. One of Bergstrom or Brisiel could be solid and the other a backup so we're not looking as forlorn as i thought mid season. If we pick up a good player at G either at draft time or through FA we could have a very solid OL next season injuries permitting.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Kind of sad to think that Bergstrom may have possibly been even worse than Nix if he were given a chance in the regular season. Undoubtedly he would have gotten a look though. Wish he didn't get hurt so we could at least see what he was capable of.


All I know is Bergstrom looked pretty solid at LG from what I saw in preaseason. Nix's natural position is RG and he moved back when Barnes went to LG.


This is what I saw as well. They may have let them alternate but that doesnt mean Nix beat out Bergstrom. It was clear to me at least that Bergstrom was better than Nix the whole time. It was just likely letting Kluwe and King rotate. If you purely went by starting time you would have said Kluwe won the job.

Also Briesel is not getting cut!!! They are not going to eat all that dead money this year to replace him with someone who might not be any better. He was are most consistant OL all season. Heck I would even say that Wiz's mistakes were more costly this year than Briesel. Although Wiz is better.

At the end of the day LG is biggest weakness and is the only priority to fix other than depth. And by depth I dont mean a 3rd stringer who can be a 2nd stringer. I mean a 2nd stringer who could win a starting job eventually if not now.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Kind of sad to think that Bergstrom may have possibly been even worse than Nix if he were given a chance in the regular season. Undoubtedly he would have gotten a look though. Wish he didn't get hurt so we could at least see what he was capable of.


All I know is Bergstrom looked pretty solid at LG from what I saw in preaseason. Nix's natural position is RG and he moved back when Barnes went to LG.


This is what I saw as well. They may have let them alternate but that doesnt mean Nix beat out Bergstrom. It was clear to me at least that Bergstrom was better than Nix the whole time. It was just likely letting Kluwe and King rotate. If you purely went by starting time you would have said Kluwe won the job.

Also Briesel is not getting cut!!! They are not going to eat all that dead money this year to replace him with someone who might not be any better. He was are most consistant OL all season. Heck I would even say that Wiz's mistakes were more costly this year than Briesel. Although Wiz is better.

At the end of the day LG is biggest weakness and is the only priority to fix other than depth. And by depth I dont mean a 3rd stringer who can be a 2nd stringer. I mean a 2nd stringer who could win a starting job eventually if not now.


No one here has been following Nix as long as I have. Nix has ALWAYS played on the right, even in college as he has ALWAYS struggled with speed rushers. Nix is a backup RG who may give you a decent spot start that is all but he is worthy of a roster spot (as a RG).

I have never been high Bergstrom. When Nix was switched to the left (a side for which he has little experience if at all because anyone with half a brain knows he belongs on the right) I knew immediately it would be a fail and wrote as much. However, in addition it was also confirmation to me what I had suspected all along which is that Nix was begrudgingly moved to the left because Bergstrom sucks.

The chain of events as I remember:
5/18/133 Nix was moved to LG ( I assumed it was because Bergstrom was struggling based on my experience with roster moves because it's rare that you move a guy who consistently struggles with speed to the left unless you are REALLY effing desperate)

Quote:
Reggie McKenzie’s first draft pick in Oakland is facing some spring competition.

The Bay Area News Group reported that Lucas Nix was working ahead of Tony Bergstrom at left guard Tuesday at the Raiders’ organized team activities (OTAs). Of course, it is early, and I’d expect both to compete through the summer at the spot previously occupied by Cooper Carlisle, who has since been released.

That said, it has to be a bit disappointing that Bergstrom, a third-round pick in 2012, is not taking the early lead. Nix was an undrafted free agent signing last year out of Pittsburgh.

The Raiders drafted Bergstrom as a fit for the zone-blocking scheme Oakland used on offense last season -- an unsuccessful approach the team has since scrapped in favor of a more traditional power-blocking scheme. In February, I asked McKenzie, who took over as general manager in 2012, if he was confident Bergstrom could be part of the future. He was firm in his belief that Bergstrom could indeed fit in the new scheme.

Bergstrom failed to make to a push for major playing time as a rookie. Now it appears he will have to fight Nix moving forward. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/77605/young-oakland-o-lineman-has-competition


7-30-13 Nix beat out Bergstrom EARLY at a position he NEVER played before. It was never that Nix was playing well. Bergs stunk it up but ONLY . . .ONLY regained his starting position when Nix got hurt.

Quote:
NAPA – Tony Bergstrom is in a fortunate, yet awkward spot.

The Raiders offensive lineman is competing to be the starting left guard, a title he’s longed for since being drafted in 2012. Problem is, he has to beat his friend and roommate Lucas Nix to get it.

The two alternated first-team reps through the first three practices in a hotly contested position battle. In the fourth, Nix went down. He sustained a left knee injury on Monday that coach Dennis Allen considers minor, a relative term when dealing with the fickle, often fragile joint.

Bergstrom has taken over first-team responsibility with Nix out, a task he didn’t want to be given. He wanted to earn it outright. He certainly didn’t want Nix to get hurt, even if it becomes a positive for him. http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/scott-bair/when-nix-goes-down-bergstrom-steps


8-7-13 When Nix got back from injury he once AGAIN beat out Bergstrom on a gimp knee. Bergs was SO BAD there was this:

Quote:
But while most of the attention is focused on those battles, there are also battles being waged by players simply trying to make the roster come Week 1. Most of the time these battles are between lesser known players and, as a result, the average fan is simply not that interested. On occasion, however, a more well-known player unexpectedly finds himself on the bubble.

According to Vic Tafur of the San Francisco Chronicle, the first ever draft pick made by general manager Reggie McKenzie, offensive guard Tony Bergstrom, may be on the bubble when the final roster cuts are made.

This would be a big development, considering that just over a year ago Bergstrom was drafted with the expectation that he would grow into a starter for the Raiders in the near future. The Raiders did not have a draft pick in either of the first two rounds that year, so McKenzie’s first pick as the team’s general manager did not come until the third round. But despite that fact, there were high expectations if for no other reason than because McKenzie is thought to be a good judge of talent. http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/oakland-raiders-tony-bergstrom-training-camp-preseason-cuts/


8-30-13 Fortunately for Bergstrom, Brisiel went down and Nix went back to his natural position. However, when Brisiel returned he played well and regained his spot. The ONLY thing that saved Bergstrom roster spot was a timely injury that would have made Jerome Bettis, who once admitted feigning an injury to make the roster, smile. I'm not accusing anyone of anything but obviously this move allowed McKenzie to save face as well who had been coming under fire for the lack of contribution by his first pick ever. McKenzie will deal with this but later is better.

Quote:
There is some uncertainty at the guard position for the Raiders. Some of the uncertainty may have been settled today as it was revealed left guard, Tony Bergstrom has a foot injury that could potentially keep him out a while, perhaps even placed on injured reserve.

"Tony Bergstrom injured his foot in the game the other night," Dennis Allen said via conference call Friday. "I don't know the total extent to where that's at but it looks to be a significant foot deal, so we're gonna continue to evaluate that and see exactly where he's at. But I would anticipate that he's gonna miss some time."

Head coaches don't throw around words like "significant" with regard to injuries. And at this stage, placing a player on injured reserve is always a possibility. Not to trivialize his injury, but an IR placement would certainly simplify who makes the 53-man roster.

Bergstrom was battling with Lucas Nix for the starting left guard position. Nix had won the job in training camp until he got injured. Then when he returned, a knee injury to starting right guard, Mike Brisiel forced Nix to shift to the right side where he and Bergstrom were working with the first team.

In Bergstrom's absence - however long that may be - the decision as to who starts at each guard position becomes a simple one. Lucas Nix starts at left guard with Mike Brisiel starting at right guard. http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/8/30/4677960/tony-bergstrom-to-miss-some-time-with-significant-foot-injury


I'm going to rant here so stop reading if you care to witness my soap box. I'm so pissed and livid because it's nearly impossible to have a viable discussion when we continue to rewrite history. Let me take the time out to do a recognition. Lucas Nix came in and made the roster as an UDFA against all odds then moved to position that would compromise him because he's a team player and did the best he could as his best friend and roommate, Bergstrom, floundered. In week 14 Nix got his FIRST chance to start at his natural position of RG and did NOT suck, grading out at -0.4 (which is about even). That's all you can ask for from a backup RG in a spot start, folks. But no one will "runtelldat" especially my biggest fan.

So here's some more early prognostications my biggest fan can hold me accountable for when they fail to happen but will never tips his cap when I'm right.

• Bergs ALWAYS sucked and will not make the team in 2014. It will be more palatable in 2014 because McKenzie will significantly address the position somehow. How can you explain cutting Bergs AND having one of the worst OLs in football in the same year?

• Wiz 2.0 is an undersized offensive lineman who's lucky to have a job in the NFL and I would test him religiously for PEDs if I were in the NFL administrative office. He's decent. I've talked him up in the past at OC because you guys love him so much and I get tired of getting beat down for being honest but I'm on one right now.

• Brisiel ain't coming back as he was on the bubble last season and only remained because the OL stinks and he did the FO a solid by restructuring for the exact same amount they would have saved by cutting him.
Quote:
Raiders on the Bubble: Guard Mike Brisiel: He is not a great fit for the power-blocking scheme and he has missed time with injuries. But this is not a deep group. Oakland may not feel comfortable getting rid of him. http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/61564/on-the-bubble-2

Quote:
Brisiel saved the Raiders about the same amount of money by restructuring as he would have if the team had just released him. In return, Brisiel probably got some form of a guarantee. After Richard Seymour’s deal voided, McKenzie started by restructured his biggest free-agent acquisition from a year ago, but there is still plenty of work to be done. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1553926-adjusting-brisiels-contract-one-of-cost-cutting-moves-the-raiders-must-make


• Nix makes the roster AGAIN as RG backup in 2014 much to the bewilderment of much of Raider Nation.
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