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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKellion wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
TKellion wrote:
So you guys want to bank on Robinson who has barely seen the field to start at WLB ,Rob Jackson who started out at DE before switching to 3-4 OLB or Perry Riley who is our best MLB if we resign him.And a rookie or FA pickup for MLB.Our defense will be worse next year than this year Laughing
No. I think you play Riley at SLB, draft a MLB either in the 2nd or 3rd and sign someone to start at WLB. Brandon Jenkins can backup Riley at SLB and cam come in on passing downs to blitz. Keenan Robinson will backup/compete for the starting role at WLB. You can either keep Barnett or someone comparable to backup/mentor the rookie at MLB.
I sure hope our new FO and coaching staff come up with a better idea than that or we are doomed. Twisted Evil
Doomed how?
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKellion wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
TKellion wrote:
So you guys want to bank on Robinson who has barely seen the field to start at WLB ,Rob Jackson who started out at DE before switching to 3-4 OLB or Perry Riley who is our best MLB if we resign him.And a rookie or FA pickup for MLB.Our defense will be worse next year than this year Laughing
No. I think you play Riley at SLB, draft a MLB either in the 2nd or 3rd and sign someone to start at WLB. Brandon Jenkins can backup Riley at SLB and cam come in on passing downs to blitz. Keenan Robinson will backup/compete for the starting role at WLB. You can either keep Barnett or someone comparable to backup/mentor the rookie at MLB.
I sure hope our new FO and coaching staff come up with a better idea than that or we are doomed. Twisted Evil


Right now you have our two OLBs who aren't great at covering. You also have a DL that can't put pressure on the QB from a 3 man front. Our OLBs are natural DEs.

Moving Rak and Kerrigan to DE solidifies the DL.

Keeping Riley, Robinson, Jenkins, Jackson and adding a guy like Yavin Smallwood along with Tapp provides a decent LB corps for the next year. So you have an improved DL and you've also improved your OLB (Jackson can cover better than Rak and has better hands) and improved your MLB. And once you have the DL solidified, you focus on improving your OLB in year two of the new coaching staff. You've now improved your front 7 greatly in just two draft cycles.

Remember, DT, G & C are the biggest needs right now with MLB (assuming 4-3)also in the mix. Riley is ok on the inside in the 3-4, but he's not going to play MLB in a 4-3. You simply don't have enough picks to address all of these in an offseason. Of course, our FA will also dictate what we do in the draft so its quite possible we fill MLB in FA (or the coaches put Riley in at MLB as a stopgap for a year and draft OLB instead).
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
TKellion wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
TKellion wrote:
So you guys want to bank on Robinson who has barely seen the field to start at WLB ,Rob Jackson who started out at DE before switching to 3-4 OLB or Perry Riley who is our best MLB if we resign him.And a rookie or FA pickup for MLB.Our defense will be worse next year than this year Laughing
No. I think you play Riley at SLB, draft a MLB either in the 2nd or 3rd and sign someone to start at WLB. Brandon Jenkins can backup Riley at SLB and cam come in on passing downs to blitz. Keenan Robinson will backup/compete for the starting role at WLB. You can either keep Barnett or someone comparable to backup/mentor the rookie at MLB.
I sure hope our new FO and coaching staff come up with a better idea than that or we are doomed. Twisted Evil


Right now you have our two OLBs who aren't great at covering. You also have a DL that can't put pressure on the QB from a 3 man front. Our OLBs are natural DEs.

Moving Rak and Kerrigan to DE solidifies the DL.

Keeping Riley, Robinson, Jenkins, Jackson and adding a guy like Yavin Smallwood along with Tapp provides a decent LB corps for the next year. So you have an improved DL and you've also improved your OLB (Jackson can cover better than Rak and has better hands) and improved your MLB. And once you have the DL solidified, you focus on improving your OLB in year two of the new coaching staff. You've now improved your front 7 greatly in just two draft cycles.

Remember, DT, G & C are the biggest needs right now with MLB (assuming 4-3)also in the mix. Riley is ok on the inside in the 3-4, but he's not going to play MLB in a 4-3. You simply don't have enough picks to address all of these in an offseason. Of course, our FA will also dictate what we do in the draft so its quite possible we fill MLB in FA (or the coaches put Riley in at MLB as a stopgap for a year and draft OLB instead).
I've heard people say that moving to a 4-3 and having Kerrigan and Rak as our starting DE's will kill our run defense because neither are run stuffing DE's.

MLB also in the mix?

Who's our starting MLB?

At least I can name players we have on our team who have been our starting DT/3-4 DEs, C and G's.

We don't have a MLB. I don't see how MLB isn't our top focus in the offseason.

Rob Jackson, Jenkins and Tapp are going to be 4-3 DE's with possibly Jenkins or Jackson playing SLB but I wouldn't count on it as neither played that position in college or the pros.

Josh Hull is someone I'd consider keeping as a reserve SLB because of how well he played on special teams last year.

If the team moves to the 4-3 and re-signs Riley and Jackson, they really need to add 3 or 4 new LBs. That means signing a few and drafting a few.

If the team stays in the 3-4, they're looking at adding 2.
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TKellion


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
TKellion wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
TKellion wrote:
So you guys want to bank on Robinson who has barely seen the field to start at WLB ,Rob Jackson who started out at DE before switching to 3-4 OLB or Perry Riley who is our best MLB if we resign him.And a rookie or FA pickup for MLB.Our defense will be worse next year than this year Laughing
No. I think you play Riley at SLB, draft a MLB either in the 2nd or 3rd and sign someone to start at WLB. Brandon Jenkins can backup Riley at SLB and cam come in on passing downs to blitz. Keenan Robinson will backup/compete for the starting role at WLB. You can either keep Barnett or someone comparable to backup/mentor the rookie at MLB.
I sure hope our new FO and coaching staff come up with a better idea than that or we are doomed. Twisted Evil


Right now you have our two OLBs who aren't great at covering. You also have a DL that can't put pressure on the QB from a 3 man front. Our OLBs are natural DEs.

Moving Rak and Kerrigan to DE solidifies the DL.

Keeping Riley, Robinson, Jenkins, Jackson and adding a guy like Yavin Smallwood along with Tapp provides a decent LB corps for the next year. So you have an improved DL and you've also improved your OLB (Jackson can cover better than Rak and has better hands) and improved your MLB. And once you have the DL solidified, you focus on improving your OLB in year two of the new coaching staff. You've now improved your front 7 greatly in just two draft cycles.

Remember, DT, G & C are the biggest needs right now with MLB (assuming 4-3)also in the mix. Riley is ok on the inside in the 3-4, but he's not going to play MLB in a 4-3. You simply don't have enough picks to address all of these in an offseason. Of course, our FA will also dictate what we do in the draft so its quite possible we fill MLB in FA (or the coaches put Riley in at MLB as a stopgap for a year and draft OLB instead).
I've heard people say that moving to a 4-3 and having Kerrigan and Rak as our starting DE's will kill our run defense because neither are run stuffing DE's.

MLB also in the mix?

Who's our starting MLB?

At least I can name players we have on our team who have been our starting DT/3-4 DEs, C and G's.

We don't have a MLB. I don't see how MLB isn't our top focus in the offseason.

Rob Jackson, Jenkins and Tapp are going to be 4-3 DE's with possibly Jenkins or Jackson playing SLB but I wouldn't count on it as neither played that position in college or the pros.

Josh Hull is someone I'd consider keeping as a reserve SLB because of how well he played on special teams last year.

If the team moves to the 4-3 and re-signs Riley and Jackson, they really need to add 3 or 4 new LBs. That means signing a few and drafting a few.

If the team stays in the 3-4, they're looking at adding 2.
At least someone here knows we are not going going to roll with 3-4 OLBs if we make the switch to the 4-3
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKellion wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
TKellion wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
TKellion wrote:
So you guys want to bank on Robinson who has barely seen the field to start at WLB ,Rob Jackson who started out at DE before switching to 3-4 OLB or Perry Riley who is our best MLB if we resign him.And a rookie or FA pickup for MLB.Our defense will be worse next year than this year Laughing
No. I think you play Riley at SLB, draft a MLB either in the 2nd or 3rd and sign someone to start at WLB. Brandon Jenkins can backup Riley at SLB and cam come in on passing downs to blitz. Keenan Robinson will backup/compete for the starting role at WLB. You can either keep Barnett or someone comparable to backup/mentor the rookie at MLB.
I sure hope our new FO and coaching staff come up with a better idea than that or we are doomed. Twisted Evil


Right now you have our two OLBs who aren't great at covering. You also have a DL that can't put pressure on the QB from a 3 man front. Our OLBs are natural DEs.

Moving Rak and Kerrigan to DE solidifies the DL.

Keeping Riley, Robinson, Jenkins, Jackson and adding a guy like Yavin Smallwood along with Tapp provides a decent LB corps for the next year. So you have an improved DL and you've also improved your OLB (Jackson can cover better than Rak and has better hands) and improved your MLB. And once you have the DL solidified, you focus on improving your OLB in year two of the new coaching staff. You've now improved your front 7 greatly in just two draft cycles.

Remember, DT, G & C are the biggest needs right now with MLB (assuming 4-3)also in the mix. Riley is ok on the inside in the 3-4, but he's not going to play MLB in a 4-3. You simply don't have enough picks to address all of these in an offseason. Of course, our FA will also dictate what we do in the draft so its quite possible we fill MLB in FA (or the coaches put Riley in at MLB as a stopgap for a year and draft OLB instead).
I've heard people say that moving to a 4-3 and having Kerrigan and Rak as our starting DE's will kill our run defense because neither are run stuffing DE's.

MLB also in the mix?

Who's our starting MLB?

At least I can name players we have on our team who have been our starting DT/3-4 DEs, C and G's.

We don't have a MLB. I don't see how MLB isn't our top focus in the offseason.

Rob Jackson, Jenkins and Tapp are going to be 4-3 DE's with possibly Jenkins or Jackson playing SLB but I wouldn't count on it as neither played that position in college or the pros.

Josh Hull is someone I'd consider keeping as a reserve SLB because of how well he played on special teams last year.

If the team moves to the 4-3 and re-signs Riley and Jackson, they really need to add 3 or 4 new LBs. That means signing a few and drafting a few.

If the team stays in the 3-4, they're looking at adding 2.
At least someone here knows we are not going going to roll with 3-4 OLBs if we make the switch to the 4-3
Other than Brandon Jenkins remaining at SLB (he played as a stand up LB in college), my suggestion merely moved our current MLBs to the OLBs and assumed our OLBs would be DEs. Then we would draft a new MLB. You said we'd be doomed doing this but added nothing to suggest why.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's funny is that people think 4-3 DEs can simply be plugged into OLB in a 3-4.

But those same people think 3-4 LBs cannot play outside in a 4-3 alignment??

True or false?

Rak played DE in college = True
Rak played SLB in a 4-3 his first year here = True
Rak did very well at SLB = True

Now, Jackson has shown he can rush reasonably well. He's shown that he can defend the run pretty well. And he's shown that he can cover better than Rak.

Add Jenkins to the mix (since that was where he played).

Add Riley to outside as well but he is not fit for the MLB role in a 4-3. And Tapp has shown he can do pretty well as a LB.

Are we going to need more LBs? Sure. Should we get a LB that can play the outside? Sure.

But the LB position we need most help at if we switch to a 4-3 is MLB.

So yes, OLB is needed. But not as badly as MLB.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
What's funny is that people think 4-3 DEs can simply be plugged into OLB in a 3-4.

But those same people think 3-4 LBs cannot play outside in a 4-3 alignment??

True or false?

Rak played DE in college = True
Rak played SLB in a 4-3 his first year here = True
Rak did very well at SLB = True

Now, Jackson has shown he can rush reasonably well. He's shown that he can defend the run pretty well. And he's shown that he can cover better than Rak.

Add Jenkins to the mix (since that was where he played).

Add Riley to outside as well but he is not fit for the MLB role in a 4-3. And Tapp has shown he can do pretty well as a LB.

Are we going to need more LBs? Sure. Should we get a LB that can play the outside? Sure.

But the LB position we need most help at if we switch to a 4-3 is MLB.

So yes, OLB is needed. But not as badly as MLB.
Completely agree. And Keenan Robinson could always surprise.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Round 2 Pick 5 (OAK): Cyril Richardson, OG, Baylor (B+)
Round 3 Pick 2: Davante Adams, WR, Fresno State (A)
Round 3 Pick 5 (OAK): Shayne Skov, ILB, Stanford (A)
Round 4 Pick 7 (T.B.): Lache Seastrunk, RB, Baylor (A)
Round 5 Pick 2: DeVante Parker, WR, Louisville (B-)
Round 5 Pick 4 (CLE): Daniel McCullers, DT, Tennessee (A)
Round 5 Pick 7 (T.B.): Antone Exum, CB, Virginia Tech (B)
Round 6 Pick 2: Tyler Larsen, C, Utah State (A)
Round 6 Pick 5 (OAK): Hakeem Smith, SS, Louisville (B+)
Round 7 Pick 2: Kirby Van Der Kamp, P, Iowa State (A)

Yes please
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKellion wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
TKellion wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
TKellion wrote:
So you guys want to bank on Robinson who has barely seen the field to start at WLB ,Rob Jackson who started out at DE before switching to 3-4 OLB or Perry Riley who is our best MLB if we resign him.And a rookie or FA pickup for MLB.Our defense will be worse next year than this year Laughing
No. I think you play Riley at SLB, draft a MLB either in the 2nd or 3rd and sign someone to start at WLB. Brandon Jenkins can backup Riley at SLB and cam come in on passing downs to blitz. Keenan Robinson will backup/compete for the starting role at WLB. You can either keep Barnett or someone comparable to backup/mentor the rookie at MLB.
I sure hope our new FO and coaching staff come up with a better idea than that or we are doomed. Twisted Evil


Right now you have our two OLBs who aren't great at covering. You also have a DL that can't put pressure on the QB from a 3 man front. Our OLBs are natural DEs.

Moving Rak and Kerrigan to DE solidifies the DL.

Keeping Riley, Robinson, Jenkins, Jackson and adding a guy like Yavin Smallwood along with Tapp provides a decent LB corps for the next year. So you have an improved DL and you've also improved your OLB (Jackson can cover better than Rak and has better hands) and improved your MLB. And once you have the DL solidified, you focus on improving your OLB in year two of the new coaching staff. You've now improved your front 7 greatly in just two draft cycles.

Remember, DT, G & C are the biggest needs right now with MLB (assuming 4-3)also in the mix. Riley is ok on the inside in the 3-4, but he's not going to play MLB in a 4-3. You simply don't have enough picks to address all of these in an offseason. Of course, our FA will also dictate what we do in the draft so its quite possible we fill MLB in FA (or the coaches put Riley in at MLB as a stopgap for a year and draft OLB instead).
I've heard people say that moving to a 4-3 and having Kerrigan and Rak as our starting DE's will kill our run defense because neither are run stuffing DE's.

MLB also in the mix?

Who's our starting MLB?

At least I can name players we have on our team who have been our starting DT/3-4 DEs, C and G's.

We don't have a MLB. I don't see how MLB isn't our top focus in the offseason.

Rob Jackson, Jenkins and Tapp are going to be 4-3 DE's with possibly Jenkins or Jackson playing SLB but I wouldn't count on it as neither played that position in college or the pros.

Josh Hull is someone I'd consider keeping as a reserve SLB because of how well he played on special teams last year.

If the team moves to the 4-3 and re-signs Riley and Jackson, they really need to add 3 or 4 new LBs. That means signing a few and drafting a few.

If the team stays in the 3-4, they're looking at adding 2.
At least someone here knows we are not going going to roll with 3-4 OLBs if we make the switch to the 4-3
Doesn't take a rocket scientist! Laughing
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
TKellion wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
TKellion wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
TKellion wrote:
So you guys want to bank on Robinson who has barely seen the field to start at WLB ,Rob Jackson who started out at DE before switching to 3-4 OLB or Perry Riley who is our best MLB if we resign him.And a rookie or FA pickup for MLB.Our defense will be worse next year than this year Laughing
No. I think you play Riley at SLB, draft a MLB either in the 2nd or 3rd and sign someone to start at WLB. Brandon Jenkins can backup Riley at SLB and cam come in on passing downs to blitz. Keenan Robinson will backup/compete for the starting role at WLB. You can either keep Barnett or someone comparable to backup/mentor the rookie at MLB.
I sure hope our new FO and coaching staff come up with a better idea than that or we are doomed. Twisted Evil


Right now you have our two OLBs who aren't great at covering. You also have a DL that can't put pressure on the QB from a 3 man front. Our OLBs are natural DEs.

Moving Rak and Kerrigan to DE solidifies the DL.

Keeping Riley, Robinson, Jenkins, Jackson and adding a guy like Yavin Smallwood along with Tapp provides a decent LB corps for the next year. So you have an improved DL and you've also improved your OLB (Jackson can cover better than Rak and has better hands) and improved your MLB. And once you have the DL solidified, you focus on improving your OLB in year two of the new coaching staff. You've now improved your front 7 greatly in just two draft cycles.

Remember, DT, G & C are the biggest needs right now with MLB (assuming 4-3)also in the mix. Riley is ok on the inside in the 3-4, but he's not going to play MLB in a 4-3. You simply don't have enough picks to address all of these in an offseason. Of course, our FA will also dictate what we do in the draft so its quite possible we fill MLB in FA (or the coaches put Riley in at MLB as a stopgap for a year and draft OLB instead).
I've heard people say that moving to a 4-3 and having Kerrigan and Rak as our starting DE's will kill our run defense because neither are run stuffing DE's.

MLB also in the mix?

Who's our starting MLB?

At least I can name players we have on our team who have been our starting DT/3-4 DEs, C and G's.

We don't have a MLB. I don't see how MLB isn't our top focus in the offseason.

Rob Jackson, Jenkins and Tapp are going to be 4-3 DE's with possibly Jenkins or Jackson playing SLB but I wouldn't count on it as neither played that position in college or the pros.

Josh Hull is someone I'd consider keeping as a reserve SLB because of how well he played on special teams last year.

If the team moves to the 4-3 and re-signs Riley and Jackson, they really need to add 3 or 4 new LBs. That means signing a few and drafting a few.

If the team stays in the 3-4, they're looking at adding 2.
At least someone here knows we are not going going to roll with 3-4 OLBs if we make the switch to the 4-3
Other than Brandon Jenkins remaining at SLB (he played as a stand up LB in college), my suggestion merely moved our current MLBs to the OLBs and assumed our OLBs would be DEs. Then we would draft a new MLB. You said we'd be doomed doing this but added nothing to suggest why.
Brandon Jenkins was a rush linebacker/DE in college. He wasn't a 4-3 OLB who plays the run and covers on every down and then might blitz or rush the passer on only 3rd downs.

There's a huge difference in the two. He basically was Orakpo in College.

It's possible he and Jackson can make the switch to a SLB but I question how good our coverage would be with either having more coverage responsibilities than they currently do in our 3-4 scheme.

I guess it's worth a try but again, I'm not sure it works out.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Round 2 Pick 5 (OAK): Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh (C+)
Round 3 Pick 2: Christian Jones, ILB, Florida State (B+)
Round 4 Pick 2: Aaron Colvin, CB, Oklahoma (A-)
Round 4 Pick 5 (OAK): Joel Bitonio, OT, Nevada (B+)
Round 5 Pick 2: Bryan Stork, C, Florida State (A)
Round 6 Pick 2: Devin Street, WR, Pittsburgh (A)
Round 6 Pick 5 (OAK): Jordan Lynch, QB, Northern Illinois (F)
Round 7 Pick 2: Pat O'Donnell, P, Miami (Fla.) (B-)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
What's funny is that people think 4-3 DEs can simply be plugged into OLB in a 3-4.

But those same people think 3-4 LBs cannot play outside in a 4-3 alignment??
That's not true. Certain 4-3 defensive ends who are athletic, present the ability to drop into coverage and turn their hips to cover in a short zone have the "ability" to play 3-4 OLB, but not all are successful at making the transition.

And "some" 4-3 DEs who are 275-295 LBs basically have no chance at making the transition to a 3-4 OLB without losing 20-30 LBs and really improving their lateral movement and coverage abilities. It's the longest of long shots for your typical 4-3 DE to make the transition to a 3-4 OLB, they'd be better off gaining 10-20 LBs, getting strong and being a 4-3 DE like Justin Smith did when he went from Cincy to SF.

Quote:
True or false?

Rak played DE in college = True
Rak played SLB in a 4-3 his first year here = True
true
Quote:
Rak did very well at SLB = True
False! He struggled vs the run as a 4-3 SLB, and he struggled vs the pass as a 4-3 SLB because his best fit is as a 4-3 Weak side DE of 3-4 Weak side LB.

The only reason Orakpo got 11 sacks as a rookie was because on passing downs we used him as a RDE and moved Andre Carter to LDE. Rak struggled as a 4-3 SLB on first and second downs as a rookie. He actually struggled really badly where some wondered if we had wasted a pick because he couldn't do that job, but they knew he could be a great pass rusher in our 4-3
As a DE once Andre Carter was gone.

Quote:
Now, Jackson has shown he can rush reasonably well. He's shown that he can defend the run pretty well. And he's shown that he can cover better than Rak.

Add Jenkins to the mix (since that was where he played).
it's possible they work out as 4-3 SLB, but I wouldn't out that much stock in it. I wouldn't decide that I'm not also going to draft an OLB prospect for that position and sign someone who's played SLB in the pros, because neither have done it.

In college Jenkins was a rush linebacker. He rarely - if ever dropped into coverage. If someone can show me otherwise, I'd love to see it, but all I remember is him rushing the passer as a down lineman and as a stand up line backer.

I do not remember him playing a 4-3 OLB position and he wasn't scouted as such and projected as such by scots and GMs for the NFL. He was projected as a 4-3 RDE (or weak side DE) and a 3-4 weak side linebacker.

Quote:
Add Riley to outside as well but he is not fit for the MLB role in a 4-3. And Tapp has shown he can do pretty well as a LB.
when has Tapp ever shown he can do quite well as a line backer?

He's never played the 4-3 LB position in college or the pros. This past year was his first year in a 3-4 scheme and he hardly ever saw the field, and if he did if was as a 3rd down extra pass rusher, not really as a line backer where he had coverage responsibilities.

Quote:
Are we going to need more LBs? Sure. Should we get a LB that can play the outside? Sure.

But the LB position we need most help at if we switch to a 4-3 is MLB.

So yes, OLB is needed. But not as badly as MLB.
i agree with this. MLB is needed more, but we need some guys who've actually played SLB to come in as well and compete with Jackson and Jenkins (who I know are better options as 4-3 DEs than 4-3 OLBs)

We switch schemes and you're looking at 3 or 4 linebackers who are needed to be brought in. Two MLB's and two OLBs - preferably SLB candidates because I think Riley and Robinson (praying he's healthy) can be our WLBs.
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
What's funny is that people think 4-3 DEs can simply be plugged into OLB in a 3-4.

But those same people think 3-4 LBs cannot play outside in a 4-3 alignment??
That's not true. Certain 4-3 defensive ends who are athletic, present the ability to drop into coverage and turn their hips to cover in a short zone have the "ability" to play 3-4 OLB, but not all are successful at making the transition.

And "some" 4-3 DEs who are 275-295 LBs basically have no chance at making the transition to a 3-4 OLB without losing 20-30 LBs and really improving their lateral movement and coverage abilities. It's the longest of long shots for your typical 4-3 DE to make the transition to a 3-4 OLB, they'd be better off gaining 10-20 LBs, getting strong and being a 4-3 DE like Justin Smith did when he went from Cincy to SF.

Quote:
True or false?

Rak played DE in college = True
Rak played SLB in a 4-3 his first year here = True
true
Quote:
Rak did very well at SLB = True
False! He struggled vs the run as a 4-3 SLB, and he struggled vs the pass as a 4-3 SLB because his best fit is as a 4-3 Weak side DE of 3-4 Weak side LB.

The only reason Orakpo got 11 sacks as a rookie was because on passing downs we used him as a RDE and moved Andre Carter to LDE. Rak struggled as a 4-3 SLB on first and second downs as a rookie. He actually struggled really badly where some wondered if we had wasted a pick because he couldn't do that job, but they knew he could be a great pass rusher in our 4-3
As a DE once Andre Carter was gone.

Quote:
Now, Jackson has shown he can rush reasonably well. He's shown that he can defend the run pretty well. And he's shown that he can cover better than Rak.

Add Jenkins to the mix (since that was where he played).
it's possible they work out as 4-3 SLB, but I wouldn't out that much stock in it. I wouldn't decide that I'm not also going to draft an OLB prospect for that position and sign someone who's played SLB in the pros, because neither have done it.

In college Jenkins was a rush linebacker. He rarely - if ever dropped into coverage. If someone can show me otherwise, I'd love to see it, but all I remember is him rushing the passer as a down lineman and as a stand up line backer.

I do not remember him playing a 4-3 OLB position and he wasn't scouted as such and projected as such by scots and GMs for the NFL. He was projected as a 4-3 RDE (or weak side DE) and a 3-4 weak side linebacker.

Quote:
Add Riley to outside as well but he is not fit for the MLB role in a 4-3. And Tapp has shown he can do pretty well as a LB.
when has Tapp ever shown he can do quite well as a line backer?

He's never played the 4-3 LB position in college or the pros. This past year was his first year in a 3-4 scheme and he hardly ever saw the field, and if he did if was as a 3rd down extra pass rusher, not really as a line backer where he had coverage responsibilities.

Quote:
Are we going to need more LBs? Sure. Should we get a LB that can play the outside? Sure.

But the LB position we need most help at if we switch to a 4-3 is MLB.

So yes, OLB is needed. But not as badly as MLB.
i agree with this. MLB is needed more, but we need some guys who've actually played SLB to come in as well and compete with Jackson and Jenkins (who I know are better options as 4-3 DEs than 4-3 OLBs)

We switch schemes and you're looking at 3 or 4 linebackers who are needed to be brought in. Two MLB's and two OLBs - preferably SLB candidates because I think Riley and Robinson (praying he's healthy) can be our WLBs.


I have said this in many posts....we have 2 43 Lbs.... Robinson has played about 30 snaps in two years comming off his second PEC tear. I really have no idea where Riley fits into this... Im assuming WLB, but I have no idea! Thats why I have mocked us taking 2 LBs in this daft if we switch to a 43......I realize we have some PS guys and a ST team guy that is listed as a LB, but never played one snap at LB. Im not including Nick Barnett...Hope fully he wont be resigned...Hes is 2 old and has bad Knees....

We need to draft 2 LBs and pick one up in FA if we want to switch to a 43
Jenkins, Jackson, and Tapp would be experiments at best!!

Reguardless if we switch to 43 or not 2nd round pick Yawin Smallwood !!
I would also take a late rounder Like Andrew Jackson or Max Bullough.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 6639
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
What's funny is that people think 4-3 DEs can simply be plugged into OLB in a 3-4.

But those same people think 3-4 LBs cannot play outside in a 4-3 alignment??
That's not true. Certain 4-3 defensive ends who are athletic, present the ability to drop into coverage and turn their hips to cover in a short zone have the "ability" to play 3-4 OLB, but not all are successful at making the transition.

And "some" 4-3 DEs who are 275-295 LBs basically have no chance at making the transition to a 3-4 OLB without losing 20-30 LBs and really improving their lateral movement and coverage abilities. It's the longest of long shots for your typical 4-3 DE to make the transition to a 3-4 OLB, they'd be better off gaining 10-20 LBs, getting strong and being a 4-3 DE like Justin Smith did when he went from Cincy to SF.

Quote:
True or false?

Rak played DE in college = True
Rak played SLB in a 4-3 his first year here = True
true
Quote:
Rak did very well at SLB = True
False! He struggled vs the run as a 4-3 SLB, and he struggled vs the pass as a 4-3 SLB because his best fit is as a 4-3 Weak side DE of 3-4 Weak side LB.

The only reason Orakpo got 11 sacks as a rookie was because on passing downs we used him as a RDE and moved Andre Carter to LDE. Rak struggled as a 4-3 SLB on first and second downs as a rookie. He actually struggled really badly where some wondered if we had wasted a pick because he couldn't do that job, but they knew he could be a great pass rusher in our 4-3
As a DE once Andre Carter was gone.

Quote:
Now, Jackson has shown he can rush reasonably well. He's shown that he can defend the run pretty well. And he's shown that he can cover better than Rak.

Add Jenkins to the mix (since that was where he played).
it's possible they work out as 4-3 SLB, but I wouldn't out that much stock in it. I wouldn't decide that I'm not also going to draft an OLB prospect for that position and sign someone who's played SLB in the pros, because neither have done it.

In college Jenkins was a rush linebacker. He rarely - if ever dropped into coverage. If someone can show me otherwise, I'd love to see it, but all I remember is him rushing the passer as a down lineman and as a stand up line backer.

I do not remember him playing a 4-3 OLB position and he wasn't scouted as such and projected as such by scots and GMs for the NFL. He was projected as a 4-3 RDE (or weak side DE) and a 3-4 weak side linebacker.

Quote:
Add Riley to outside as well but he is not fit for the MLB role in a 4-3. And Tapp has shown he can do pretty well as a LB.
when has Tapp ever shown he can do quite well as a line backer?

He's never played the 4-3 LB position in college or the pros. This past year was his first year in a 3-4 scheme and he hardly ever saw the field, and if he did if was as a 3rd down extra pass rusher, not really as a line backer where he had coverage responsibilities.

Quote:
Are we going to need more LBs? Sure. Should we get a LB that can play the outside? Sure.

But the LB position we need most help at if we switch to a 4-3 is MLB.

So yes, OLB is needed. But not as badly as MLB.
i agree with this. MLB is needed more, but we need some guys who've actually played SLB to come in as well and compete with Jackson and Jenkins (who I know are better options as 4-3 DEs than 4-3 OLBs)

We switch schemes and you're looking at 3 or 4 linebackers who are needed to be brought in. Two MLB's and two OLBs - preferably SLB candidates because I think Riley and Robinson (praying he's healthy) can be our WLBs.


I have said this in many posts....we have 2 43 Lbs.... Robinson has played about 30 snaps in two years comming off his second PEC tear. I really have no idea where Riley fits into this... Im assuming WLB, but I have no idea! Thats why I have mocked us taking 2 LBs in this daft if we switch to a 43......I realize we have some PS guys and a ST team guy that is listed as a LB, but never played one snap at LB. Im not including Nick Barnett...Hope fully he wont be resigned...Hes is 2 old and has bad Knees....

We need to draft 2 LBs and pick one up in FA if we want to switch to a 43
Jenkins, Jackson, and Tapp would be experiments at best!!

Reguardless if we switch to 43 or not 2nd round pick Yawin Smallwood !!
I would also take a late rounder Like Andrew Jackson or Max Bullough.
Most everyone assumes we will acquire two starting caliber LBers. Others are just saying we draft one and sign another in free agency.
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TKellion


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 1220
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What ever happens if we switch to 43 I am saying 2 of our 3 starting LB are not currently on the roster if we want a top flight defense.Plus if we want a solid run defense we cant have a DE tandem of Po and Kerrigan.Neither of them are big enough for LDE even if they gain 20Lbs.It may very well be that they should let Po walk and use that money for a Proven 43 OLB .Put Kerrigan at RDE Jenkins at DT Cofield at DT and draft a LDE.Unless you believe that Carriker is returning next year and could play LDE.Riley is also a FA,if we dont know where he plays why bring him back?Robinson may fit WLB and he may not.No one on this years defense was spectacular and unreplaceable.I havent seen so many missed tackles and bad pursuit routes in a long time. Twisted Evil
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