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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
With most of the QBs in this class with question marks why not roll with this guy?


To be honest, I don't think we can even really be certain any of these guys will perform better than McGloin did. I have to agree. Why waste a pick on such uncertainty unless it's a midround guy? It doesn't make sense to me.
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Burgesskills


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds good, better than better than half of the starters.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
With most of the QBs in this class with question marks why not roll with this guy?


To be honest, I don't think we can even really be certain any of these guys will perform better than McGloin did. I have to agree. Why waste a pick on such uncertainty unless it's a midround guy? It doesn't make sense to me.

If thats the case then I would definatley want a trade down if Clowney is not there. I could live with Watkins or Evans.

btw posted in another thread. Reggie would prefer to sit a rookie QB for a year before having to start him.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
With most of the QBs in this class with question marks why not roll with this guy?


To be honest, I don't think we can even really be certain any of these guys will perform better than McGloin did. I have to agree. Why waste a pick on such uncertainty unless it's a midround guy? It doesn't make sense to me.


Because not everyone thinks some of these QBs are huge risks. And because while a rookie might not be as good as McGloin was at first, does not mean they won't ever be better. Due to McGloin's physical limitations and that players tend to get better with experience there's a good chance our young QB would surpass McGloin's ablity. I can't believe I had to explain that.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Due to McGloin's physical limitations and that players tend to get better with experience there's a good chance our young QB would surpass McGloin's ablity.


What QB doesn't have physical limitations and why can't McGloin get any better? You have seemingly closed the door on him already and I can't figure out why. B/c he's not 2" taller? He's got a more than capable arm, he makes good decisions majority of the time, he didn't even get promoted to 2nd string until week 6, right? Then he's starting week 8 or some crap? I just think you're being a tad premature here.

I don't think any QB in this upcoming draft could do what McGloin did in as little time as he did it w/. For that reason, and the fact that this QB class blows, he deserves next year. If it doesn't work out, 2015 is looking much stronger for drafting QBs and in FA.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Due to McGloin's physical limitations and that players tend to get better with experience there's a good chance our young QB would surpass McGloin's ablity.


What QB doesn't have physical limitations and why can't McGloin get any better? You have seemingly closed the door on him already and I can't figure out why. B/c he's not 2" taller? He's got a more than capable arm, he makes good decisions majority of the time, he didn't even get promoted to 2nd string until week 6, right? Then he's starting week 8 or some crap? I just think you're being a tad premature here.

I don't think any QB in this upcoming draft could do what McGloin did in as little time as he did it w/. For that reason, and the fact that this QB class blows, he deserves next year. If it doesn't work out, 2015 is looking much stronger for drafting QBs and in FA.


Yes, because of his physical limitations McGloin is already very close to his ceiling. McGloin's strength is getting the most out of his skill set. There are certain NFL caliber throws McGloin will never be proficient at. While fans are crushing Olson for his play calling I've read where some feel he is getting the most he can out of McGloin who limits your play book.

McGloin is a nice transitional QB. I don't know why everyone else isn't comfortable with that? The Raiders can and should patiently wait until an obvious upgrade comes along and not force the issue.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Due to McGloin's physical limitations and that players tend to get better with experience there's a good chance our young QB would surpass McGloin's ablity.


What QB doesn't have physical limitations and why can't McGloin get any better? You have seemingly closed the door on him already and I can't figure out why. B/c he's not 2" taller? He's got a more than capable arm, he makes good decisions majority of the time, he didn't even get promoted to 2nd string until week 6, right? Then he's starting week 8 or some crap? I just think you're being a tad premature here.

I don't think any QB in this upcoming draft could do what McGloin did in as little time as he did it w/. For that reason, and the fact that this QB class blows, he deserves next year. If it doesn't work out, 2015 is looking much stronger for drafting QBs and in FA.


Yes, because of his physical limitations McGloin is already very close to his ceiling. McGloin's strength is getting the most out of his skill set. There are certain NFL caliber throws McGloin will never be proficient at. While fans are crushing Olson for his play calling I've read where some feel he is getting the most he can out of McGloin who limits your play book.

McGloin is a nice transitional QB. I don't know why everyone else isn't comfortable with that? The Raiders can and should patiently wait until an obvious upgrade comes along and not force the issue.


So you think an accurate QB, who has a good mental grasp of the game that showed he can succeed (to an extent) w/ very limited time, w/ adequate arm strength, and good intelligence is almost at his ceiling b/c he's a couple inches shorter than ideal height? B/c he doesn't have Favre's arm? I'm trying to find these physical limitations b/c I've seen QBs succeed w/ less. What are those throws by the way? I consider that a bold statement and would like for you to explain. Yeah, he's not going to throw a 50 yard bomb and might struggle w/ a deep post (albeit he's shown he could hit a 30+ yarder on many occasions) but, from what I saw, he threw all the passes you ask a QB to do most often. His mid-deep ball accuracy is pretty damn good also. I want to hear what you think he can't do though.

Your last line is my line of thinking. He's, at worst, a transitional QB. Who's to say what he can be at best. We really don't know that. Patience is exactly what we need. There are no QBs in this draft and in free agency that are an immense upgrade so what's the point? We NEED an upgrade, not a chance at an upgrade. Roll w/ McGloin for at least one more year. Never know, he might surprise everyone again for the.... 4th time?
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THE MAD STORK


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Due to McGloin's physical limitations and that players tend to get better with experience there's a good chance our young QB would surpass McGloin's ablity.


What QB doesn't have physical limitations and why can't McGloin get any better? You have seemingly closed the door on him already and I can't figure out why. B/c he's not 2" taller? He's got a more than capable arm, he makes good decisions majority of the time, he didn't even get promoted to 2nd string until week 6, right? Then he's starting week 8 or some crap? I just think you're being a tad premature here.

I don't think any QB in this upcoming draft could do what McGloin did in as little time as he did it w/. For that reason, and the fact that this QB class blows, he deserves next year. If it doesn't work out, 2015 is looking much stronger for drafting QBs and in FA.


Yes, because of his physical limitations McGloin is already very close to his ceiling. McGloin's strength is getting the most out of his skill set. There are certain NFL caliber throws McGloin will never be proficient at. While fans are crushing Olson for his play calling I've read where some feel he is getting the most he can out of McGloin who limits your play book.

McGloin is a nice transitional QB. I don't know why everyone else isn't comfortable with that? The Raiders can and should patiently wait until an obvious upgrade comes along and not force the issue.


.......... Confused

What makes you think he reached his ceiling? After about 7 games?
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NickButera


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Due to McGloin's physical limitations and that players tend to get better with experience there's a good chance our young QB would surpass McGloin's ablity.


What QB doesn't have physical limitations and why can't McGloin get any better? You have seemingly closed the door on him already and I can't figure out why. B/c he's not 2" taller? He's got a more than capable arm, he makes good decisions majority of the time, he didn't even get promoted to 2nd string until week 6, right? Then he's starting week 8 or some crap? I just think you're being a tad premature here.

I don't think any QB in this upcoming draft could do what McGloin did in as little time as he did it w/. For that reason, and the fact that this QB class blows, he deserves next year. If it doesn't work out, 2015 is looking much stronger for drafting QBs and in FA.


Yes, because of his physical limitations McGloin is already very close to his ceiling. McGloin's strength is getting the most out of his skill set. There are certain NFL caliber throws McGloin will never be proficient at. While fans are crushing Olson for his play calling I've read where some feel he is getting the most he can out of McGloin who limits your play book.

McGloin is a nice transitional QB. I don't know why everyone else isn't comfortable with that? The Raiders can and should patiently wait until an obvious upgrade comes along and not force the issue.


Not talking about McGloin, but in general a QB's mind is a much more important attribute than his arm. If you make it to the NFL you've got a decent enough arm to get by. But an elite mind can make an elite player far more than an elite arm can.

Speaking of McGloin, I don't think we can completely write him off until we know he doesn't posses that elite skill above his shoulders. Chances are though, he doesn't have it. 99% of the time Qb's don't have it, so if you're betting against him you're probably going to win Laughing which is why I always am skeptical of every QB in the draft. The odds are on my side that I'm going to be right in the end Laughing
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Due to McGloin's physical limitations and that players tend to get better with experience there's a good chance our young QB would surpass McGloin's ablity.


What QB doesn't have physical limitations and why can't McGloin get any better? You have seemingly closed the door on him already and I can't figure out why. B/c he's not 2" taller? He's got a more than capable arm, he makes good decisions majority of the time, he didn't even get promoted to 2nd string until week 6, right? Then he's starting week 8 or some crap? I just think you're being a tad premature here.

I don't think any QB in this upcoming draft could do what McGloin did in as little time as he did it w/. For that reason, and the fact that this QB class blows, he deserves next year. If it doesn't work out, 2015 is looking much stronger for drafting QBs and in FA.


Yes, because of his physical limitations McGloin is already very close to his ceiling. McGloin's strength is getting the most out of his skill set. There are certain NFL caliber throws McGloin will never be proficient at. While fans are crushing Olson for his play calling I've read where some feel he is getting the most he can out of McGloin who limits your play book.

McGloin is a nice transitional QB. I don't know why everyone else isn't comfortable with that? The Raiders can and should patiently wait until an obvious upgrade comes along and not force the issue.


So you think an accurate QB, who has a good mental grasp of the game that showed he can succeed (to an extent) w/ very limited time, w/ adequate arm strength, and good intelligence is almost at his ceiling b/c he's a couple inches shorter than ideal height? B/c he doesn't have Favre's arm? I'm trying to find these physical limitations b/c I've seen QBs succeed w/ less. What are those throws by the way? I consider that a bold statement and would like for you to explain. Yeah, he's not going to throw a 50 yard bomb and might struggle w/ a deep post (albeit he's shown he could hit a 30+ yarder on many occasions) but, from what I saw, he threw all the passes you ask a QB to do most often. His mid-deep ball accuracy is pretty damn good also. I want to hear what you think he can't do though.

Your last line is my line of thinking. He's, at worst, a transitional QB. Who's to say what he can be at best. We really don't know that. Patience is exactly what we need. There are no QBs in this draft and in free agency that are an immense upgrade so what's the point? We NEED an upgrade, not a chance at an upgrade. Roll w/ McGloin for at least one more year. Never know, he might surprise everyone again for the.... 4th time?


+1

McGloin's only real physical limitations are his height and his arm- neither of which seemed to be too big of a deal this season. He moves well in the pocket already, with some more coaching/experience he will improve, which will help avoid tipped balls. As for his arm, I think it is plenty good for our offense. The last time we ran a WCO with an accurate QB that had an unspectacular arm, we went to the Super Bowl. Not saying McGloin is anywhere near as good as Gannon, but in a WCO you need a smart, accurate QB more than you need one who can throw the ball 60+ yards.

I just don't get how people can be so sure he has hit his ceiling. His arm likely won't get much stronger and he won't get any taller, but what does nearly every dedicated QB do over time? They get smarter (or just more experienced), learn to read defenses better, learn to put touch on balls, improve on some of the types of throws that they struggled with, and plenty of other ins and outs of the QB position. How is it that everyone expects a high-profile rookie QB to make these leaps but not McGloin? I don't know that he is our next great QB or anything, but he played better than almost every rookie QB this season, and he did it with a lot less preparation and hardly any work with his WRs. I'm excited to see what happens after a full offseason and preseason working with the 1st team and getting his timing down with his WRs.
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Dreadymatt


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Due to McGloin's physical limitations and that players tend to get better with experience there's a good chance our young QB would surpass McGloin's ablity.


What QB doesn't have physical limitations and why can't McGloin get any better? You have seemingly closed the door on him already and I can't figure out why. B/c he's not 2" taller? He's got a more than capable arm, he makes good decisions majority of the time, he didn't even get promoted to 2nd string until week 6, right? Then he's starting week 8 or some crap? I just think you're being a tad premature here.

I don't think any QB in this upcoming draft could do what McGloin did in as little time as he did it w/. For that reason, and the fact that this QB class blows, he deserves next year. If it doesn't work out, 2015 is looking much stronger for drafting QBs and in FA.


Yes, because of his physical limitations McGloin is already very close to his ceiling. McGloin's strength is getting the most out of his skill set. There are certain NFL caliber throws McGloin will never be proficient at. While fans are crushing Olson for his play calling I've read where some feel he is getting the most he can out of McGloin who limits your play book.

McGloin is a nice transitional QB. I don't know why everyone else isn't comfortable with that? The Raiders can and should patiently wait until an obvious upgrade comes along and not force the issue.


So you think an accurate QB, who has a good mental grasp of the game that showed he can succeed (to an extent) w/ very limited time, w/ adequate arm strength, and good intelligence is almost at his ceiling b/c he's a couple inches shorter than ideal height? B/c he doesn't have Favre's arm? I'm trying to find these physical limitations b/c I've seen QBs succeed w/ less. What are those throws by the way? I consider that a bold statement and would like for you to explain. Yeah, he's not going to throw a 50 yard bomb and might struggle w/ a deep post (albeit he's shown he could hit a 30+ yarder on many occasions) but, from what I saw, he threw all the passes you ask a QB to do most often. His mid-deep ball accuracy is pretty damn good also. I want to hear what you think he can't do though.

Your last line is my line of thinking. He's, at worst, a transitional QB. Who's to say what he can be at best. We really don't know that. Patience is exactly what we need. There are no QBs in this draft and in free agency that are an immense upgrade so what's the point? We NEED an upgrade, not a chance at an upgrade. Roll w/ McGloin for at least one more year. Never know, he might surprise everyone again for the.... 4th time?


JTagg I don't know if this has ever happened before but I think I agree with you, I'd be happy to go with McGloin for at least another year (if your prepared to give Pryor one more year to prove his worth in camp)
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NickButera


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know McGloin's arm strength isn't amazing, but over his 5 starts he did have 15 passes for 25+ yards, the most in the league over that time period. Granted it's just a 5 game time period (which isn't huge but isn't small either), that's telling of something IMO. Even without amazing arm strength he still makes plenty of throws for big plays.

Bagga, I'm not really pro-McGloin starting week 1 next year, but I'm not against it. I think with stats like that it's unfair to say he can't make the throws he needs to in this league. At least just at this time. Of course, I'm not entirely sure what you meant when you said 'the throws'. As I said earlier, I think physical specifications are only a fraction of the table of what makes a good QB a good QB. Just because his body doesn't look good on paper I don't think that's an automatic write-off. I think his play has shown that he can't be written off as a back up in this league, at least not yet.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My biggest issue with McGloin is the turnovers on our side of the field. He cleans those up and he has a good chance.

Pryor's biggest issue is learning to throw it away and when to run and not run.


Not saying it is the only issues for either guy. Just the ones that have to be addressed right away or there is no reason to even discuss the rest after this next season.

McGloins size does not bother me if he learns to use throwing lanes properly. But I also am not bothered by Bridgewater's size. I have no problem with McGloin starting another year with competition from Pryor and rookie/FA. Prefferably Garrapolo or similar QB.
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Dreadymatt


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
My biggest issue with McGloin is the turnovers on our side of the field. He cleans those up and he has a good chance.

Pryor's biggest issue is learning to throw it away and when to run and not run.


Not saying it is the only issues for either guy. Just the ones that have to be addressed right away or there is no reason to even discuss the rest after this next season.

McGloins size does not bother me if he learns to use throwing lanes properly. But I also am not bothered by Bridgewater's size. I have no problem with McGloin starting another year with competition from Pryor and rookie/FA. Prefferably Garrapolo or similar QB.


sensible strategy
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