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Leslie Frazier in as DC
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil' Shorty wrote:
Anyone else worried about Frazier's poor track record as a DC? Has more name than results. Plus I think Rod would of run more Cover 1 and 3. Does Frazier run Cover 2 mostly? I wonder how he will do but I think Lovie will have his hand on this D with Frazier and Frazier will run and respect a lot of Lovie's ideas while running our defense. Hopefully we get Rod in a year or two.


I think he will just be helping combine with Lovie to create gameplans. Don't read too much into it just yet
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
the guys in Minny loved to play for Frazier. He's another players coach that get respect. Fraziers been doing defense since 1999 in the NFL so that cat knows his stuff.

while Frazier deservedly earns very high marks for integrity, respect, and keeping a team together under difficult circumstances, you guys should also realize our defense was pretty much 32nd in the NFL this year.

there were FIVE games this year where our anemic offense had the lead going in to the final minute of the games and our D gave up td's in every one, resulting in losing four of those games and tying the fifth.

Frazier did NOT get the job done defensively.

it's just food for thought and asking you to keep your eyes open, i have nothing against the Bucs and hope they do well.


Not to sound harsh but the Vikes are lacking talent on that side of that ball.
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
the guys in Minny loved to play for Frazier. He's another players coach that get respect. Fraziers been doing defense since 1999 in the NFL so that cat knows his stuff.

while Frazier deservedly earns very high marks for integrity, respect, and keeping a team together under difficult circumstances, you guys should also realize our defense was pretty much 32nd in the NFL this year.

there were FIVE games this year where our anemic offense had the lead going in to the final minute of the games and our D gave up td's in every one, resulting in losing four of those games and tying the fifth.

Frazier did NOT get the job done defensively.

it's just food for thought and asking you to keep your eyes open, i have nothing against the Bucs and hope they do well.


I ask because I didn't watch too many Viking games this year. However, what was the main difference between this year being abysmal and the previous year making the playoffs. Of course, AP was unreal that year, but the defense would still have to carry some of the load. Did Kevin Williams get old this year? Did losing Winfield hurt the defense on and off the field? Harrison Smith only played 8 games, how bad of loss was he? Just curious.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ well, our most glaring defensive deficiency was in our backfield, which we would assume is Frazier's specialty, right?

after that, our most glaring deficiency was our linebackers, which Frazier hired Mike Singletary to coach.

after that, it was our linemen. take your pick.


Frazier relied way too heavily on veterans, instead of giving new guys a chance, other than maybe Harrison Smith. once he did play rookies and younger guys (Xavier Rhodes, for example) they played very well. but our season was already more than 1/2 over.

that's the knock on Frazier - he isn't creative or daring or a risk taker. he goes with what he feels is the tried and true methodology. if it doesn't work, he just keeps trying it over and over, trying to force it to work.

and yes, our players respected him a GREAT deal, but they also openly questioned the defensive assignments they were given that contributed to those games we lost LITERALLY in the last 60 seconds.
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Lil' Shorty


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went on NFL.com to see how the Vikings D did from around 2007 (when Frazier was hired) to 2013 when the Vikings were completely a mess.

Here is the trend I found. Vikings were repeatedly tops in Run D and were a bottom of the league pass D but the pass D improved each year while Frazier was only the DC.

Frazier as DC

2007: Run D was 1st / Pass D was 32nd
2008: Run D was 1st / Pass D was 18th
2009: Run D was 2nd / Pass D was 19th
2010: Run D was 9th / Pass D was 10th

Frazier as HC

2011: Run D was 11th / Pass D was 26th
2012: Run D was 11th / Pass D was 24th
2013: Run D was 16th / Pass D was 31st

So who sees a trend here? While Frazier was just the DC the Run D was always solid if not great and the Pass D improved each year. When Frazier became a HC and got in over his head the defense slipped. As only a DC here in Tampa with Lovie Smith working hand in hand with him, and you know Lovie will, I don't think we have a reason to worry.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good stuff Shorty...

let's mirror those 2010 numbers. We can do that. Anything better and i'll be happy
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, I think it has to do a ton with talent or lack thereof.

Shorty, you just posted some number about the Vikes run/pass defense. At the time the Williams twins ran the league in that department and Allen was full of [inappropriate/removed] and vinegar. Can you name any of their secondary players during that time besides Winfield? Madieu Williams, Cedric Griffin... Eh?

Even the past few years the talent just hasn't been there. They have a few nice young pieces in the secondary now but overall they are a group lacking guys that can make plays.

Now if the defense being called has no imagination and not willing to try different things to make up for the lack of talent then there are problems.

I think we all expect Lovie to be elbows deep with the defense though. And again Lovie is a smart guy, if he feels comfortable with Frazier as the DC than so am I.
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Spartica4Real wrote:
Wonder if you guys get Jared Allen.

now that's a distinct possibility.


He'll go nicely with Julius peppers.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
Again, I think it has to do a ton with talent or lack thereof.

Shorty, you just posted some number about the Vikes run/pass defense. At the time the Williams twins ran the league in that department and Allen was full of [inappropriate/removed] and vinegar. Can you name any of their secondary players during that time besides Winfield? Madieu Williams, Cedric Griffin... Eh?

Even the past few years the talent just hasn't been there. They have a few nice young pieces in the secondary now but overall they are a group lacking guys that can make plays.

Now if the defense being called has no imagination and not willing to try different things to make up for the lack of talent then there are problems.

I think we all expect Lovie to be elbows deep with the defense though. And again Lovie is a smart guy, if he feels comfortable with Frazier as the DC than so am I.


we just had Bill Sheridan as our DC for the last two years guys....Once again. Bill Sheridan lol
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
Spartica4Real wrote:
Wonder if you guys get Jared Allen.

now that's a distinct possibility.


He'll go nicely with Julius peppers.


Haha no kidding. A couple of ghetto vets looking for a ring before their time is up. I would welcome both and think playing beside McCoy would do wonders for their games.
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
Spartica4Real wrote:
Wonder if you guys get Jared Allen.

now that's a distinct possibility.


He'll go nicely with Julius peppers.


Haha no kidding. A couple of ghetto vets looking for a ring before their time is up. I would welcome both and think playing beside McCoy would do wonders for their games.


If I'm looking for a ring, I'm going to Denver, Seattle, San Fran, New England or maybe Indy.

No way am I coming to Glennon town, and if it isn't him, it'll be a rookie. Likely a good rookie if any, but a rookie. If I'm either of those guys, I don't have time to wait for them. Now, if they want to play their final years with a coach they like, Tampa is an option.
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96BucsBallin


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well neither coordinators excite me. Tedford has a great idea, having plays for every situation, but his offenses are complex. I don't expect a huge jump in offensive performance as our guys take time to learn the offense. Frazier sounds like he will turn our defense into what our offense was this last year. Hope this is me just worrying.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil' Shorty wrote:
So who sees a trend here? While Frazier was just the DC the Run D was always solid if not great and the Pass D improved each year. When Frazier became a HC and got in over his head the defense slipped.

that had a LOT to do with Pat Williams being either on or off the roster, who we still have not found an adequate replacement for.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

96BucsBallin wrote:
Well neither coordinators excite me. Tedford has a great idea, having plays for every situation, but his offenses are complex. I don't expect a huge jump in offensive performance as our guys take time to learn the offense. Frazier sounds like he will turn our defense into what our offense was this last year. Hope this is me just worrying.


read the other thread. Just posted a nice nugget
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Lil' Shorty


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
I think we all expect Lovie to be elbows deep with the defense though. And again Lovie is a smart guy, if he feels comfortable with Frazier as the DC than so am I.

Also, outside of Rod Marinelli, Frazier has the most similar background to what Lovie wants to do on defense. While he may want to do more man and Cover 1 and Cover 3, Frazier has experience with it, though mostly Cover 2. All Frazier would have to do is gameplan with Lovie and run more Cover 1 and 3 than in previous years and run less Cover 2 than in previous years. They will just mesh well together. If Lovie is unhappy with play calls in games in the next year or two, insert Rod Marinelli when he leaves Dallas and comes to Tampa.
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