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lumberjackchris


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 4898
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CAS22 wrote:
This was beautifully done by Texans management. Eat the $10.5MM hit this year, go into 2015 with around $50MM in cap space for a Watt extension and a ton of flexibility. Love it.


This! We're not winning this year guys. BOB is getting his guys in place and we get another draft pick plus the comp picks we should be getting (which should be announced soon) plus the cap flexibility next year. It's a win win.
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mse326


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
jch1911 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
jch1911 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
So if hes traded does that create even more cap space for us, or is it the same as a june 1st cut?

Actually less cap space this year than a June 1 cut... save about $4M this year, but pick up a high late round pick


How does that work because it makes no sense.....


June 1 cut spreads the hit out over 2 years... we take the full hit this year in a trade, but we will have way more room next year.

The June 1 cut would have opened up alot of room this year, but would have also cut into out cap room next year.

In a trade (it's like cutting the player this year) EXCEPT you also get something of value in return.

Use the overthecap calculator... it will show you the different amounts that you could save in a June 1 cut vs. a trade.

But I would take a draft pick for Schaub any day of the week right now...


IMO dumb, we should June 1st cut him, use that 10 m to sign a guy or 2 in free agency to actually help improve our team. I will bet money that late round pick becomes nothing and this "reload" year is BS, its a "rebuild" year as much as McNair doesn't think so. We've done nothing to improve our roster and IMO (even though I didn't think it was possible) we've actually got worse this off-season. Just when I think we got a new group in here to do good things, they pull the same schit the last group did. I swear this whole organization is stupid.


1. Who did you want us to get?
2. Who do you want that is still available that the extra cap space would help.

We really didn't have any cap space to get anyone worth getting. The only thing we should have done is held on to Antonio Smith at that contract.

And there certainly isn't anyone left that is worth getting. So take the full cap hit now and have the space next offseason to get a good FA or two once the staff can better assess our needs.


should have kept Smith, should sign a slot corner, ilb and possibly an olb. Like Carlos Rogers, Pat Angerer. Its not about stars, but quality players. Now we have way more holes than we started with this off-season and we're steady wasting our prime players years.


I think we should have kept Smith, but I'm fine with the rest. So many new regimes fail because they go and make moves, even mild ones without really knowing the roster. Give them a year to see what we have and how players fit in the new scheme then go into next offseason with tons of cap room and a better idea of what and who to target. This also allows us to get comp picks in next years draft.

We were never going to win this year anyway so taking a conservative approach this offseason is smart.

And don't forget there are usually a good amount of camp cuts that aren't for reasons of skill. June 1st cuts especially. By waiting until then we have more flexibility in the draft to get the BPAs, get to see our players in action to make better moves, and don't lose the comp picks because cut players don't count.

I have no problem with how BOB and company have approached this offseason.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I disagree. I think we could have signed some guys this year and next and made the bridge to cross shorter next year. Instead you go through this year grading the roster. Then you trim the fat and add more pieces, all while taking another season (2015) to get the new guys used to the scheme and coaches and are ready to battle in 2016, but wait. Youre safety, corner, wr and rb are older and starting to break down, guess its time for another "reload" year. Rolling Eyes We need to stop playing for the future and learn to play in the now.
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shep0507


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
jch1911 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
jch1911 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
So if hes traded does that create even more cap space for us, or is it the same as a june 1st cut?

Actually less cap space this year than a June 1 cut... save about $4M this year, but pick up a high late round pick


How does that work because it makes no sense.....


June 1 cut spreads the hit out over 2 years... we take the full hit this year in a trade, but we will have way more room next year.

The June 1 cut would have opened up alot of room this year, but would have also cut into out cap room next year.

In a trade (it's like cutting the player this year) EXCEPT you also get something of value in return.

Use the overthecap calculator... it will show you the different amounts that you could save in a June 1 cut vs. a trade.

But I would take a draft pick for Schaub any day of the week right now...


IMO dumb, we should June 1st cut him, use that 10 m to sign a guy or 2 in free agency to actually help improve our team. I will bet money that late round pick becomes nothing and this "reload" year is BS, its a "rebuild" year as much as McNair doesn't think so. We've done nothing to improve our roster and IMO (even though I didn't think it was possible) we've actually got worse this off-season. Just when I think we got a new group in here to do good things, they pull the same schit the last group did. I swear this whole organization is stupid.


I think this is a great move. You get something in return, and you free up the all important cap space for next year for Watt. I think that McNair absolutely knew when he said it that this would be a rebuild year, but he was selling the "reload" to keep everyone from flipping out. Judging by the reaction to some ultra smart moves like cutting OD, letting players walk that don't fit the new scheme, etc. on every Texans comment page by fans, I'm not sure the sell job worked. The "Manziel is God" types have lost their minds. They already hate BOB, continue to hate Rick Smith and are poised to jump ship at any pick that isn't Manziel or Clowney.

Here's the key though. What you see happening is a set of decisions that are for the best for the franchise in the long run. BOB and Smith are positioning the team to fix the cap issues that Kubiack/Smith created, and at the same time field a team that will become a consistent playoff winner while carrying a cap number that allows them to sign those big name free agents later on.

I have a feeling sometime in the next few seasons, there's going to be a smaller, smarter fan base and we'll be looking back to this offseason as what built a winner.
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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AX2 - I think you may be misunderstanding. The choices for Schaub were as follows:

1) Keep him - Counts $14,437,500 against the 2014 cap
2) Cut him now - Counts $10,500,000 against the 2014 cap ($4 million saved in 2014 / $7 million saved in 2015)
3) Trade him now - same cap impact + we get a late round draft pick in 2014
4) Post June 1 cut - Counts $3.5 million against 2014 cap / $7 million against 2015 cap (saves $11 million in 2014, costs $7 million in 2015)

Really the advantage to the post June 1 cut would come if we signed a ONE YEAR deal for a player for the 2014 season as we would have less space in 2015 for any player. The reality is that we spent the savings from cutting Schaub this year on Ryan Fitzpatrick who is an ideal backup and we have the cap deck cleared for 2015 and beyond. IMO - getting even a 6th rounder for Schaub is a nice coup as we were certainly prepared to just cut him for nothing like we did with OD. Schaub's agent also deserves a medal. I still expect the Texans and Raiders to draft QBs, but the Raiders also could take Clowney, Mack, or Robinson and take a shot at Mariota/Winston next year.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
AX2 - I think you may be misunderstanding. The choices for Schaub were as follows:

1) Keep him - Counts $14,437,500 against the 2014 cap
2) Cut him now - Counts $10,500,000 against the 2014 cap ($4 million saved in 2014 / $7 million saved in 2015)
3) Trade him now - same cap impact + we get a late round draft pick in 2014
4) Post June 1 cut - Counts $3.5 million against 2014 cap / $7 million against 2015 cap (saves $11 million in 2014, costs $7 million in 2015)

Really the advantage to the post June 1 cut would come if we signed a ONE YEAR deal for a player for the 2014 season as we would have less space in 2015 for any player. The reality is that we spent the savings from cutting Schaub this year on Ryan Fitzpatrick who is an ideal backup and we have the cap deck cleared for 2015 and beyond. IMO - getting even a 6th rounder for Schaub is a nice coup as we were certainly prepared to just cut him for nothing like we did with OD. Schaub's agent also deserves a medal. I still expect the Texans and Raiders to draft QBs, but the Raiders also could take Clowney, Mack, or Robinson and take a shot at Mariota/Winston next year.


My point was post June 1st cut gets us more money now for quality signings, and next year we already have some room for players, having almost 50 million next year is great, but like even you say, you build through the draft and don't over pay free agents. we're setting ourselves up for exactly that. I just wish we could have got quality guys now and more next year. Oh well, I will sit back and see what happens.


BTW Schaub netted us a 6th from Oakland.
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brooks1957


Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Location: Akron, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo - lifelong Browns fan here (yes and still suffering) but I wonder if you might clear something up for me here.

By trading Schaub, you say he'll have the same effect on the Texans 2014 cap. And yet when you were exploring trading partners, the Texans needed to find a team that could fit him under their cap.

Did I miss something or how can one player count against two teams cap in 2014?

Thanks in advance.
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mse326


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brooks1957 wrote:
Apollo - lifelong Browns fan here (yes and still suffering) but I wonder if you might clear something up for me here.

By trading Schaub, you say he'll have the same effect on the Texans 2014 cap. And yet when you were exploring trading partners, the Texans needed to find a team that could fit him under their cap.

Did I miss something or how can one player count against two teams cap in 2014?

Thanks in advance.


We are responsible for the pro rated cap hit from his signing bonus (and I think any guarantees left). That is true whether he is released before June 1st or traded. We can spread the hit if he would have been released after June 1st.

We aren't responsible for his base salary. A team that trades for him is.
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jch1911


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
brooks1957 wrote:
Apollo - lifelong Browns fan here (yes and still suffering) but I wonder if you might clear something up for me here.

By trading Schaub, you say he'll have the same effect on the Texans 2014 cap. And yet when you were exploring trading partners, the Texans needed to find a team that could fit him under their cap.

Did I miss something or how can one player count against two teams cap in 2014?

Thanks in advance.


We are responsible for the pro rated cap hit from his signing bonus (and I think any guarantees left). That is true whether he is released before June 1st or traded. We can spread the hit if he would have been released after June 1st.

We aren't responsible for his base salary. A team that trades for him is.
Also, new team picks up any roster bonuses that still need to be paid - although I am not sure if Schaub had any of those.
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91jmay


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schaub has no remaining roster bonuses and can be cut after this season for no cap hit by the Raiders. Its the reason we traded for him rather than fighting for him on the open market.

Made perfect sense for both teams.
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Marco79


Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how McClain said 2 weeks ago all these reports about moving Schaub were false and that he was going to be here "awhile". Meanwhile 10 days later Schaub is traded.

Now he is insisting that moving Schaub and signing Fitzpatrick is just more evidence that they will draft a QB Number 1. I just do not understand his logic. Fitzpatrick has proven that he can be a serviceable starter in this league and Signing him gives them flexibility. I don't get how he thinks these moves lock the Texans in to a QB at 1. I hope he is just wrong again and looks like more of an idiot.
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
I love how McClain said 2 weeks ago all these reports about moving Schaub were false and that he was going to be here "awhile". Meanwhile 10 days later Schaub is traded.

Now he is insisting that moving Schaub and signing Fitzpatrick is just more evidence that they will draft a QB Number 1. I just do not understand his logic. Fitzpatrick has proven that he can be a serviceable starter in this league and Signing him gives them flexibility. I don't get how he thinks these moves lock the Texans in to a QB at 1. I hope he is just wrong again and looks like more of an idiot.


When was the last time Pancakes was ever right during the draft? I honestly can't remember. Same guy that said the Texans were sold on Reggie Bush, Clay Matthews, and Ryan Mathews. Im in agreement with you also. Can he be wrong again this year? Laughing
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