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2014 Draft Talk Thread #2
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5766
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dreadymatt wrote:
I'm increasingly moving towards the idea of sticking with Terrelle Pryor and McGloin next year, this QB class don't particularly impress me


Fact is, it's true. This is not a particularly good class. I see alot of work with almost all of them, and the polished one(s) have uninspiring skill sets. The best so-called prospects most often listed as the top 5 are very raw for the pro game. Not a 1st year starter in the entire group. Some teams may start them first year, but none of them should be stepping in right away. None.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
AFA bridgewater, I don't see much to differentiate between him and watching G. Smith highlights last year. In fact, Smith might have looked better to me.


The huge difference between the two is Bridgewater knows how to operate in the pocket and how to react to pressure. Smiths was as bad as it gets in both areas. Not seeing the similarities between the two.


Bridgewater is a natural thrower, throws a nice ball with a quick release, very accurate.Yea I agree,comparing those two is laughable.


I should have been clearer. I had no desire to literally compare the two, I simply see no significant distinction between them as far as how good of a pro prospect either is. I.e. both quite flawed with some skills.
And G. Smith threw a nice ball with great accuracy, operated well in the pocket in his college highlights as well.


Not sure what highlights you watched. Geno Smith set himself up for a ton of sacks/pressures because he had no concept of how to step into the pocket. And that was as a spread offense QB, so he was a complete project in that regard. Teddy Bridgewater knows how to hang tough in the pocket and how to step into throwing lanes. He's a much better prospect then Smith.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3092
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
I'm increasingly moving towards the idea of sticking with Terrelle Pryor and McGloin next year, this QB class don't particularly impress me


Fact is, it's true. This is not a particularly good class. I see alot of work with almost all of them, and the polished one(s) have uninspiring skill sets. The best so-called prospects most often listed as the top 5 are very raw for the pro game. Not a 1st year starter in the entire group. Some teams may start them first year, but none of them should be stepping in right away. None.


Personally I don't think that makes a Franchise guy. Sure guys like Luck RG3 and Wilson who have had instant success, but there's nothing wrong with grooming a QB and coaching him up. Look at Rodgers, Rivers or even the legendary Tom Brady. None of those guys started right away and they are all highly successful. I think that if we allow any of these guys to sit for a year or two as a backup to McGloin then they will be very successful.

The problem is fans, they demand that 1st round guys start instantly, but thankfully we have a Front Office that doesn't give into the fan base like other franchises;I.E. Broncos and Redskins.
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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Location: Long Beach, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

any chance Jernigan makes it to round 2? Id like a combo of Barr and Jernigan...resign Houston and bring in Griffen wed have a nice front 7...

Houston Jernigan Sims Griffen

Barr Roach Moore/Burris
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5766
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
I'm increasingly moving towards the idea of sticking with Terrelle Pryor and McGloin next year, this QB class don't particularly impress me


Fact is, it's true. This is not a particularly good class. I see alot of work with almost all of them, and the polished one(s) have uninspiring skill sets. The best so-called prospects most often listed as the top 5 are very raw for the pro game. Not a 1st year starter in the entire group. Some teams may start them first year, but none of them should be stepping in right away. None.


Personally I don't think that makes a Franchise guy. Sure guys like Luck RG3 and Wilson who have had instant success, but there's nothing wrong with grooming a QB and coaching him up. Look at Rodgers, Rivers or even the legendary Tom Brady. None of those guys started right away and they are all highly successful. I think that if we allow any of these guys to sit for a year or two as a backup to McGloin then they will be very successful.

The problem is fans, they demand that 1st round guys start instantly, but thankfully we have a Front Office that doesn't give into the fan base like other franchises;I.E. Broncos and Redskins.


I hear ya but you're ignoring some issues with those guys you mentioned. Rodgers had Favre and Rivers had Brees in front of them. They could be groomed, we can't really do that. Plus they both had much better tools than these guys. Brady was taken in the 6th round. I'll take any of these guys in the 6th round if that's what you want to compare to, Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, any of em. Otherwise, burning a high 1st is a much different biscuit.
Backup to Brees or backup to Favre puts a franchise in a much different position than backup to McGloin.

I said it already, I'll say it again, these are all raw, highly flawed, relatively sloppy prospects at QB. And especially so when being considered in the top 5.

I didn't necessarily say first year starter made a franchise guy. Top 5 pick should be a franchise guy, but that's a different vein of conversation. We're not in a position to draft a guy at #5, who cannot start right away because he's a raw mess right away. Terrible teams like ours need the #5 pick to contribute in a big way right out of the gate, that's why they make the draft order the way that it is. Even though Oakland really needs a QB at 5, he just ain't there amongst this group. Not unless you want the team to reach badly and pray for success.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5804
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
I think that if we allow any of these guys to sit for a year or two as a backup to McGloin then they will be very successful.

The problem is fans, they demand that 1st round guys start instantly, but thankfully we have a Front Office that doesn't give into the fan base like other franchises;I.E. Broncos and Redskins.


To expect that a rookie sit behind McGloin for two minutes let alone two years is unrealistic. It could be argued that Rivers, Rodgers & Brady weren't being groomed they were being stashed behind Brees, Farve & Bledsoe. McGloin ain't one of those HoFs requiring that someone wait their turn.
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Nodisrespect on building inside out wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22487
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
I think that if we allow any of these guys to sit for a year or two as a backup to McGloin then they will be very successful.

The problem is fans, they demand that 1st round guys start instantly, but thankfully we have a Front Office that doesn't give into the fan base like other franchises;I.E. Broncos and Redskins.


To expect that a rookie sit behind McGloin for two minutes let alone two years is unrealistic. It could be argued that Rivers, Rodgers & Brady weren't being groomed they were being stashed behind Brees, Farve & Bledsoe. McGloin ain't one of those HoFs requiring that someone wait their turn.


I like that. Stashed is a great word. IMO, you learn by getting reps on the field.

This whole 'groom' the QB thing is cliche. If you have a prospect worth a damn, he will show something when put into action.
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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Location: Long Beach, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
I think that if we allow any of these guys to sit for a year or two as a backup to McGloin then they will be very successful.

The problem is fans, they demand that 1st round guys start instantly, but thankfully we have a Front Office that doesn't give into the fan base like other franchises;I.E. Broncos and Redskins.


To expect that a rookie sit behind McGloin for two minutes let alone two years is unrealistic. It could be argued that Rivers, Rodgers & Brady weren't being groomed they were being stashed behind Brees, Farve & Bledsoe. McGloin ain't one of those HoFs requiring that someone wait their turn.


I like that. Stashed is a great word. IMO, you learn by getting reps on the field.

This whole 'groom' the QB thing is cliche. If you have a prospect worth a damn, he will show something when put into action.


the offense isnt completley without talent either...if we grab a QB round 1, i hope we can pick up ASJ in round 2...our OL should be decent enough, and Jennings proved we can be a physical running team. Along with Streater, Moore, Holmes, Rivera a young QB has SOME pieces to be able to show well...
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3092
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Rob wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
I think that if we allow any of these guys to sit for a year or two as a backup to McGloin then they will be very successful.

The problem is fans, they demand that 1st round guys start instantly, but thankfully we have a Front Office that doesn't give into the fan base like other franchises;I.E. Broncos and Redskins.


To expect that a rookie sit behind McGloin for two minutes let alone two years is unrealistic. It could be argued that Rivers, Rodgers & Brady weren't being groomed they were being stashed behind Brees, Farve & Bledsoe. McGloin ain't one of those HoFs requiring that someone wait their turn.


I like that. Stashed is a great word. IMO, you learn by getting reps on the field.

This whole 'groom' the QB thing is cliche. If you have a prospect worth a damn, he will show something when put into action.


the offense isnt completley without talent either...if we grab a QB round 1, i hope we can pick up ASJ in round 2...our OL should be decent enough, and Jennings proved we can be a physical running team. Along with Streater, Moore, Holmes, Rivera a young QB has SOME pieces to be able to show well...


I just don't want the guy to start because of his draft status. And I don't think our management will let him which is a huge plus in my eyes. Or else we could end up with another Locker.
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91jmay


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets not be revisionist historians on Drew Brees. Whilst he wasn't run out of town he was underwhelming at best in S.D. They took a QB top 5 for a reason (actually took Eli 1# if you remember!).
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5766
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
Lets not be revisionist historians on Drew Brees. Whilst he wasn't run out of town he was underwhelming at best in S.D. They took a QB top 5 for a reason (actually took Eli 1# if you remember!).


He was underwhelming for 2 seasons (then they drafted Rivers), excellent for the next season, then good for the season after that at which point they traded him. I guess they viewed that year as him having hit his ceiling, or he was playing hurt.
But it's not revisionist, he had one fantastic year in SD and then a good one.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
91jmay wrote:
Lets not be revisionist historians on Drew Brees. Whilst he wasn't run out of town he was underwhelming at best in S.D. They took a QB top 5 for a reason (actually took Eli 1# if you remember!).


He was underwhelming for 2 seasons (then they drafted Rivers), excellent for the next season, then good for the season after that at which point they traded him. I guess they viewed that year as him having hit his ceiling, or he was playing hurt.
But it's not revisionist, he had one fantastic year in SD and then a good one.


They didn't trade him, his contract was up. Him and Culpepper were the big Free Agents that year...and we signed Aaron Brooks..

I think fans need to be patient no matter when our QB starts, whether its McGloin or its a rookie.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3646
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
91jmay wrote:
Lets not be revisionist historians on Drew Brees. Whilst he wasn't run out of town he was underwhelming at best in S.D. They took a QB top 5 for a reason (actually took Eli 1# if you remember!).


He was underwhelming for 2 seasons (then they drafted Rivers), excellent for the next season, then good for the season after that at which point they traded him. I guess they viewed that year as him having hit his ceiling, or he was playing hurt.
But it's not revisionist, he had one fantastic year in SD and then a good one.


They didn't trade him, his contract was up. Him and Culpepper were the big Free Agents that year...and we signed Aaron Brooks..

I think fans need to be patient no matter when our QB starts, whether its McGloin or its a rookie.


He had a serious shoulder injury that could've ended his career so San Diego just let them walk away.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 1427
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Favorite RB prospect in this class? I personally like James Wilder Jr. and I think he could go around the 6th round, but he worked well in pass pro and runs HARD for fsu. Check him out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhctoSPJsf0
He could be the thunder to latavius' lightning in the future.
Plus on the qb issue, I don't think we lost because of our qb this year tbh. We lost because we couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. I think we should just improve the overall team and not worry about qb for the time being. I wouldn't want us to waste another pick on a "tyler wilson", when there is a promising mid round player (mychal rivera) on the board who can improve the team or provide necessary depth.
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Mr.Bob Dobalina


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 1562
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just heard Todd Mcshay say that Robinson is the best offensive tackle he has evaluated in the last 12 years. Shocked
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