Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

The man who would be King (GM) of Dallas?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Dallas Cowboys
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4581
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
So no more 2nd round guys who dropped due to injury? Guess that would rule out Easley.


That rules out most of the second and third round selections of decent value.

Kids picked in the second and third rounds are very talented and at one point or another, possibly could have been considered first round material. Many of them slip to those rounds instead, for three reasons...

First, is obviously, injury concerns.

Second is usually attitude/persona/drug/law/maturity issues.

And finally, other players at their position sneak ahead of them through good senior games, combines, or that players' poor senior game or combine.

So if you want to start ruling out all the good young players who slip into the second and third round area, and likely the maturity issue kids...you're going to have slim pickings in terms of value. You'll be reaching far more often, selecting 5th round caliber players as high as the second round just to avoid injury history players.

Idk, I guess I see the reasoning behind it. But let's face it, if we go into a draft with the mindset of "We will not pick guys with injury troubles", you're going to have a hard time finding good value players in the early rounds. You'll be selecting players of lower value too often for my liking.
_________________
Gavin Escobar will have more catches than Cole Beasley.

Yes just like every coach, I do think I know everything.

Read the Football FAQ!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Northland


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 3937
Location: Ajax, Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felix=Fast! wrote:
Northland wrote:
Sounds good with McClay in charge of the draft board. Last year certainly was chaotic. Hopefully McClay can keep everyone on the same page so we don't revisit the disconnect we had last year.

Lots of good stuff in the article. I take away the following from the read and hope we move away from this "strategy".

"Similarly, you could ask some pointed questions about the Cowboys procilivity for drafting injured or small school players over the years. On paper, and probably even on film, all of those guys may have been greatly talented. But what's the point of drafting guys who can't stay healthy or whose skills do not translate to the NFL, or more specifically, to the Cowboys' system?"


Ya sounds like we may see more of those picks that arent necessarily sexy(Claiborne,Floyd) but are going to be players who can play in our system.

Basically i think we have no idea what is going tohappen in this draft. I have no idea who are the "system" guys or what McClay will be after

Mock Drafts are no fun anymore.


Keep the sexy pick; give me the fundamentals every day of the week, which for the Boys means hopefully stocking up on DL and OL. It's still a crapshoot, and like you I don't know who guys are who fit our "system" or what our "system" is?
_________________
Northland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Felix=Fast!


Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 2255
Location: Amarillo Tx
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
Felix=Fast! wrote:
Northland wrote:
Sounds good with McClay in charge of the draft board. Last year certainly was chaotic. Hopefully McClay can keep everyone on the same page so we don't revisit the disconnect we had last year.

Lots of good stuff in the article. I take away the following from the read and hope we move away from this "strategy".

"Similarly, you could ask some pointed questions about the Cowboys procilivity for drafting injured or small school players over the years. On paper, and probably even on film, all of those guys may have been greatly talented. But what's the point of drafting guys who can't stay healthy or whose skills do not translate to the NFL, or more specifically, to the Cowboys' system?"


Ya sounds like we may see more of those picks that arent necessarily sexy(Claiborne,Floyd) but are going to be players who can play in our system.

Basically i think we have no idea what is going tohappen in this draft. I have no idea who are the "system" guys or what McClay will be after

Mock Drafts are no fun anymore.


Keep the sexy pick; give me the fundamentals every day of the week, which for the Boys means hopefully stocking up on DL and OL. It's still a crapshoot, and like you I don't know who guys are who fit our "system" or what our "system" is?
I wonder if going back and looking at Flayds game and profiling him will help me know what we are not interested in at DT...
_________________


Sean Lee leads the NFL in making David Wilson cry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Texas_OutLaw7


Most Valuable Poster (6th Ballot)

FF Fanatic

Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 24353
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am pretty confident that this change is not indicative of us never drafting someone who was injured again. Football is a violent sport. People will be injured. I just think we will see a more cautious approach.
_________________


In Redball I Trust!
The price of progress is trusting the process.
Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WizardHawk


Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 9819
Location: Hawkeye State
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broaddus really gushes about McClay. Want to be excited, but tempering that. Jerry is still a hurdle.
_________________

Kiltman on avy n' sig
George Selvie Fan Club
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4581
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
Felix=Fast! wrote:
Northland wrote:
Sounds good with McClay in charge of the draft board. Last year certainly was chaotic. Hopefully McClay can keep everyone on the same page so we don't revisit the disconnect we had last year.

Lots of good stuff in the article. I take away the following from the read and hope we move away from this "strategy".

"Similarly, you could ask some pointed questions about the Cowboys procilivity for drafting injured or small school players over the years. On paper, and probably even on film, all of those guys may have been greatly talented. But what's the point of drafting guys who can't stay healthy or whose skills do not translate to the NFL, or more specifically, to the Cowboys' system?"


Ya sounds like we may see more of those picks that arent necessarily sexy(Claiborne,Floyd) but are going to be players who can play in our system.

Basically i think we have no idea what is going tohappen in this draft. I have no idea who are the "system" guys or what McClay will be after

Mock Drafts are no fun anymore.


Keep the sexy pick; give me the fundamentals every day of the week, which for the Boys means hopefully stocking up on DL and OL. It's still a crapshoot, and like you I don't know who guys are who fit our "system" or what our "system" is?


Systems dont always require names or titles. Back in the day you had your run and gun, you had your spreads and west coasts and power runs and zone runs and waggle offenses. But nowadays, in this modern era, every offense and defense takes concepts from all the styles to come before it's creation. Every offense could be called a west coast offense of some sort. Every power run offense will have spread concepts for long yardage. Every defense takes concepts from zone, man and deep safety defensive systems.

Fitting the system nowadays, is more about finding the guys who have skill sets that represent their ability to perform the role you will ask of them.

For instance, if you need a receiver and your offensive playbook utilizes isolating the slot receiver on the deep safety (A la Victor Cruz, James Jones in GB, Meachem when he was in NO), then you're going to want to draft a receiver who's skills best fit that role - you will want a guy who's fast enough to get up on the safety quickly, has good hip and head fakes to make the safety bite, and has the ability to go up and catch balls at a high point or wrestle the ball in air away from a defender. You won't, however, go looking for the taller, slower, tougher first down machines who would be entirely out of their element being put into that role I mentioned above. They might be a great player, but you're asking them to do things they are not good at doing, and it becomes a poor fit.

That is, of course, unless you plan to change your system and plans of attack based on the best players available that you select. Which is a perfectly fine way of doing things, for sure.
_________________
Gavin Escobar will have more catches than Cole Beasley.

Yes just like every coach, I do think I know everything.

Read the Football FAQ!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4581
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
Broaddus really gushes about McClay. Want to be excited, but tempering that. Jerry is still a hurdle.


Broaddus will always gush about things. Do realize, he is not a subjective writer blogging about the Cowboys. He is paid by Jerry Jones, and is part of the organization. Would you constantly say ill of the decisions made by your boss (publicly, on your boss's own website no less)? 'Course not, if you want to keep your job.

And with how all or nothing the majority of Cowboys fans can be, can you imagine the uproar, the lost ticket sales, and the "Omg we will never win a game ever ever ever again" nonsense the team would experience by having the team's official website speaking anything less than positives about decisions, hires and the like?
_________________
Gavin Escobar will have more catches than Cole Beasley.

Yes just like every coach, I do think I know everything.

Read the Football FAQ!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Nextyearfordaboyz


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 17196
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Broaddus really gushes about McClay. Want to be excited, but tempering that. Jerry is still a hurdle.


Broaddus will always gush about things. Do realize, he is not a subjective writer blogging about the Cowboys. He is paid by Jerry Jones, and is part of the organization. Would you constantly say ill of the decisions made by your boss (publicly, on your boss's own website no less)? 'Course not, if you want to keep your job.

And with how all or nothing the majority of Cowboys fans can be, can you imagine the uproar, the lost ticket sales, and the "Omg we will never win a game ever ever ever again" nonsense the team would experience by having the team's official website speaking anything less than positives about decisions, hires and the like?


He certainly didn't gush about the Frederick pick...
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WizardHawk


Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 9819
Location: Hawkeye State
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Broaddus really gushes about McClay. Want to be excited, but tempering that. Jerry is still a hurdle.


Broaddus will always gush about things. Do realize, he is not a subjective writer blogging about the Cowboys. He is paid by Jerry Jones, and is part of the organization. Would you constantly say ill of the decisions made by your boss (publicly, on your boss's own website no less)? 'Course not, if you want to keep your job.

And with how all or nothing the majority of Cowboys fans can be, can you imagine the uproar, the lost ticket sales, and the "Omg we will never win a game ever ever ever again" nonsense the team would experience by having the team's official website speaking anything less than positives about decisions, hires and the like?


Broaddus may be on the pay roll, but has a more than one occasion voiced his displeasure with the organization.
_________________

Kiltman on avy n' sig
George Selvie Fan Club
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4581
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Broaddus really gushes about McClay. Want to be excited, but tempering that. Jerry is still a hurdle.


Broaddus will always gush about things. Do realize, he is not a subjective writer blogging about the Cowboys. He is paid by Jerry Jones, and is part of the organization. Would you constantly say ill of the decisions made by your boss (publicly, on your boss's own website no less)? 'Course not, if you want to keep your job.

And with how all or nothing the majority of Cowboys fans can be, can you imagine the uproar, the lost ticket sales, and the "Omg we will never win a game ever ever ever again" nonsense the team would experience by having the team's official website speaking anything less than positives about decisions, hires and the like?


Broaddus may be on the pay roll, but has a more than one occasion voiced his displeasure with the organization.


He has voiced frustration only. He has never spoken ill of anyone directly. He has argued his opinions. But never spoken down of the team or it's players.

He may say so and so had a bad game or needs to step it up. But he has never said player xyz is bad, or coach abc is terrible, etc.

Don't confuse creating a buzzworthy story on a website with actually speaking with displeasure.

Again, the guy is paid by the team - they aren't going to pay him if he's going to bad mouth the team or its players. That doesn't sell very well, especially on the official site.
_________________
Gavin Escobar will have more catches than Cole Beasley.

Yes just like every coach, I do think I know everything.

Read the Football FAQ!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4581
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Broaddus really gushes about McClay. Want to be excited, but tempering that. Jerry is still a hurdle.


Broaddus will always gush about things. Do realize, he is not a subjective writer blogging about the Cowboys. He is paid by Jerry Jones, and is part of the organization. Would you constantly say ill of the decisions made by your boss (publicly, on your boss's own website no less)? 'Course not, if you want to keep your job.

And with how all or nothing the majority of Cowboys fans can be, can you imagine the uproar, the lost ticket sales, and the "Omg we will never win a game ever ever ever again" nonsense the team would experience by having the team's official website speaking anything less than positives about decisions, hires and the like?


He certainly didn't gush about the Frederick pick...


Well, he spoke in honest opinion that the selection WAS a reach. Any football fan who didn't know the top center was pegged as a second to third round pick was clearly out of the loop that draft season. And Broaddus pointed it out that Fredrick was, indeed, a reach - and we all knew that.

He didn't say Fredrick was a bad player. Or that Jerry and Jason were clueless, or that our scouts got it wrong. No, he spoke only of what we all already knew - we could have gotten that player later.

Don't confuse it or mix it up - he is a writer and ex-scout that works for the team. Pointing out obvious things - like being able to get Fredrick later on - is a far cry from a subjective outside view speaking in full honesty.
_________________
Gavin Escobar will have more catches than Cole Beasley.

Yes just like every coach, I do think I know everything.

Read the Football FAQ!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
WizardHawk


Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 9819
Location: Hawkeye State
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Broaddus really gushes about McClay. Want to be excited, but tempering that. Jerry is still a hurdle.


Broaddus will always gush about things. Do realize, he is not a subjective writer blogging about the Cowboys. He is paid by Jerry Jones, and is part of the organization. Would you constantly say ill of the decisions made by your boss (publicly, on your boss's own website no less)? 'Course not, if you want to keep your job.

And with how all or nothing the majority of Cowboys fans can be, can you imagine the uproar, the lost ticket sales, and the "Omg we will never win a game ever ever ever again" nonsense the team would experience by having the team's official website speaking anything less than positives about decisions, hires and the like?


He certainly didn't gush about the Frederick pick...


Well, he spoke in honest opinion that the selection WAS a reach. Any football fan who didn't know the top center was pegged as a second to third round pick was clearly out of the loop that draft season. And Broaddus pointed it out that Fredrick was, indeed, a reach - and we all knew that.

He didn't say Fredrick was a bad player. Or that Jerry and Jason were clueless, or that our scouts got it wrong. No, he spoke only of what we all already knew - we could have gotten that player later.

Don't confuse it or mix it up - he is a writer and ex-scout that works for the team. Pointing out obvious things - like being able to get Fredrick later on - is a far cry from a subjective outside view speaking in full honesty.


There is no difference in saying Frederick was a reach compared to saying FO screwed up. They're one in the same.
_________________

Kiltman on avy n' sig
George Selvie Fan Club
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4581
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Broaddus really gushes about McClay. Want to be excited, but tempering that. Jerry is still a hurdle.


Broaddus will always gush about things. Do realize, he is not a subjective writer blogging about the Cowboys. He is paid by Jerry Jones, and is part of the organization. Would you constantly say ill of the decisions made by your boss (publicly, on your boss's own website no less)? 'Course not, if you want to keep your job.

And with how all or nothing the majority of Cowboys fans can be, can you imagine the uproar, the lost ticket sales, and the "Omg we will never win a game ever ever ever again" nonsense the team would experience by having the team's official website speaking anything less than positives about decisions, hires and the like?


He certainly didn't gush about the Frederick pick...


Well, he spoke in honest opinion that the selection WAS a reach. Any football fan who didn't know the top center was pegged as a second to third round pick was clearly out of the loop that draft season. And Broaddus pointed it out that Fredrick was, indeed, a reach - and we all knew that.

He didn't say Fredrick was a bad player. Or that Jerry and Jason were clueless, or that our scouts got it wrong. No, he spoke only of what we all already knew - we could have gotten that player later.

Don't confuse it or mix it up - he is a writer and ex-scout that works for the team. Pointing out obvious things - like being able to get Fredrick later on - is a far cry from a subjective outside view speaking in full honesty.


There is no difference in saying Frederick was a reach compared to saying FO screwed up. They're one in the same.


Now you sound like my wife, linking thoughts or ideas to a sentence or statement that says nothing of the sort.

Saying you could have gotten the guy later is in no way saying the FO screwed up. So he was a reach. Doesn't mean he can't be good. Doesn't mean it's a bad pick. Just means they picked him a little early compared to where most 'experts' thought he'd go.

You wanna say they screwed up, you say they made a bad move, they screwed up, and that's that. You don't just say someone was a reach. Those statements do not link together or intertwine...

LOL Geez bro, you really did just give me a flash back to the hundreds of times I've told my wife this same thing about linking stuff together. Take what someone says at face value, don't look for hidden meanings. Razz
_________________
Gavin Escobar will have more catches than Cole Beasley.

Yes just like every coach, I do think I know everything.

Read the Football FAQ!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Nextyearfordaboyz


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 17196
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Broaddus really gushes about McClay. Want to be excited, but tempering that. Jerry is still a hurdle.


Broaddus will always gush about things. Do realize, he is not a subjective writer blogging about the Cowboys. He is paid by Jerry Jones, and is part of the organization. Would you constantly say ill of the decisions made by your boss (publicly, on your boss's own website no less)? 'Course not, if you want to keep your job.

And with how all or nothing the majority of Cowboys fans can be, can you imagine the uproar, the lost ticket sales, and the "Omg we will never win a game ever ever ever again" nonsense the team would experience by having the team's official website speaking anything less than positives about decisions, hires and the like?


He certainly didn't gush about the Frederick pick...


Well, he spoke in honest opinion that the selection WAS a reach. Any football fan who didn't know the top center was pegged as a second to third round pick was clearly out of the loop that draft season. And Broaddus pointed it out that Fredrick was, indeed, a reach - and we all knew that.

He didn't say Fredrick was a bad player. Or that Jerry and Jason were clueless, or that our scouts got it wrong. No, he spoke only of what we all already knew - we could have gotten that player later.

Don't confuse it or mix it up - he is a writer and ex-scout that works for the team. Pointing out obvious things - like being able to get Fredrick later on - is a far cry from a subjective outside view speaking in full honesty.


You are misremembering it. He was extremely critical of that selection.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4581
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Broaddus really gushes about McClay. Want to be excited, but tempering that. Jerry is still a hurdle.


Broaddus will always gush about things. Do realize, he is not a subjective writer blogging about the Cowboys. He is paid by Jerry Jones, and is part of the organization. Would you constantly say ill of the decisions made by your boss (publicly, on your boss's own website no less)? 'Course not, if you want to keep your job.

And with how all or nothing the majority of Cowboys fans can be, can you imagine the uproar, the lost ticket sales, and the "Omg we will never win a game ever ever ever again" nonsense the team would experience by having the team's official website speaking anything less than positives about decisions, hires and the like?


He certainly didn't gush about the Frederick pick...


Well, he spoke in honest opinion that the selection WAS a reach. Any football fan who didn't know the top center was pegged as a second to third round pick was clearly out of the loop that draft season. And Broaddus pointed it out that Fredrick was, indeed, a reach - and we all knew that.

He didn't say Fredrick was a bad player. Or that Jerry and Jason were clueless, or that our scouts got it wrong. No, he spoke only of what we all already knew - we could have gotten that player later.

Don't confuse it or mix it up - he is a writer and ex-scout that works for the team. Pointing out obvious things - like being able to get Fredrick later on - is a far cry from a subjective outside view speaking in full honesty.


You are misremembering it. He was extremely critical of that selection.


I believe his words were that the Cowboys got poor value by selecting a center at that spot after trading back and only getting a round 3 selection. He was very critical of the value of the pick and the trade.

But from what I remember, he never criticized Fredrick the player. He even went on to say that Fredrick has the ability to anchor the line and lend progress to generating push in the run game.

So yeah...I don't think there is a fan, coach, player, scout, GM, owner, CEO or team president that didn't know it was pretty shabby value, even if the player turns out good.
_________________
Gavin Escobar will have more catches than Cole Beasley.

Yes just like every coach, I do think I know everything.

Read the Football FAQ!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Dallas Cowboys All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group