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Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case you're wondering, we have no idea how good of a coach Godsey is. The talent at TE was so good for most of 2012 that even a bad TE coach wouldn't be able to ruin them, while the talent at TE for most of this season was so awful that even a good TE coach wouldn't get anything out of them.

I will say though, for you Clowney fans, your new QB coach has had an up close look at Ryan Mallett for three seasons, including the past two when O'Brien wasn't around
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
In case you're wondering, we have no idea how good of a coach Godsey is. The talent at TE was so good for most of 2012 that even a bad TE coach wouldn't be able to ruin them, while the talent at TE for most of this season was so awful that even a good TE coach wouldn't get anything out of them.

I will say though, for you Clowney fans, your new QB coach has had an up close look at Ryan Mallett for three seasons, including the past two when O'Brien wasn't around


That's what Im worried about. He also coached Blake Bortles at UCF for a year as QB coach, which was the last time he has been a QB coach. Makes up for an even more interesting draft/offseason.
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dsorc


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
In case you're wondering, we have no idea how good of a coach Godsey is. The talent at TE was so good for most of 2012 that even a bad TE coach wouldn't be able to ruin them, while the talent at TE for most of this season was so awful that even a good TE coach wouldn't get anything out of them.

I will say though, for you Clowney fans, your new QB coach has had an up close look at Ryan Mallett for three seasons, including the past two when O'Brien wasn't around

I do not think that McNair would approve of a trade for Mallet given the cocaine background. There might be more wiggle room for another position but QBs inevitably become the face of the franchise.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsorc wrote:
Sciz wrote:
In case you're wondering, we have no idea how good of a coach Godsey is. The talent at TE was so good for most of 2012 that even a bad TE coach wouldn't be able to ruin them, while the talent at TE for most of this season was so awful that even a good TE coach wouldn't get anything out of them.

I will say though, for you Clowney fans, your new QB coach has had an up close look at Ryan Mallett for three seasons, including the past two when O'Brien wasn't around

I do not think that McNair would approve of a trade for Mallet given the cocaine background. There might be more wiggle room for another position but QBs inevitably become the face of the franchise.


I don't buy too much into the concept that a coach having coached a player instantly catapults that player to the top of their lists. At most, coaches do this with the low rent type players that they bring in to instill "culture" like Parcells and Ryan did, but I can't think of many examples of college coaches drafting their own college stars or even NFL coaches poaching their former players (it worked out so well for Wade with Alan Ball and Bradie James). How many Eagles did Andy Reid bring over? Sure, a guy like Chip Kelly may see something in a guy like Jeff Maehl that others don't and give him an extra chance, but it's not like he reached for Dion Jordon, Kyle Long, or Kiko Alonso last year or as some predicted, he didn't tank to try to get Mariota. I don't think Harbaugh has draft a single Stanford player. It's why the Art Briles to the Redskins stuff never meant much to me as it would be a bad career move for both as it would diminish the success they both had apart. If anything the Dolphins pairing Mike Sherman and Ryan Tannehill should be a cautionary tale as while it may have eased his transition to the NFL, it also likely limited his upside since he wasn't exposed to any new concepts or methods. It is a bit crazy to me to think that with a new universe of every draft eligible player in the country vs. whatever universe UCF was recruiting from Godsey would again think that Bortles was the best football player out there and that O'Brien would agree. I know O'Brien is tight with O'Leary, but to me that could just as likely lead to O'Leary sharing his concerns about the fundamental flaws in Bortles game.

As for Mallett, I could see moving a middle-ish pick for him in a QB competition situation, but he has shown NOTHING to warrant putting faith in him as a franchise QB. He hasn't even had his "Matt Flynn" moment as he's gotten no meaningful regular season action and stunk again this past preseason in his final showcase. We would be insane to give up meaningful picks for him like the Chiefs did for Cassell who actually proved himself in real football game and the Pats have no reason to let him go since he's just getting 3rd round salary and can easily ride out the final year of his rookie deal as Brady's backup. Trading for Mallett 2 years ago might have made sense since you would get 2 seasons of value at low salary before having to lock him up and if he flopped you could get out cheap. Trading for him now, you not only give up the picks, but also the downside risk of a high salary flop. If Mallett was going to be moved, last season was certainly the time considering the dearth of QB talent in the draft vs. this year which is so solid. Honestly, I'd just as soon bring in Sanchez, Gabbert, Ponder, or Weedon and see if they can be "fixed" rather than count on a less talented guy like Mallett who AT BEST could turn out to be Jake Locker and at worst could just be another Tony Pike, Dan LeFevour statue or a Rhett Bomar type who just didn't have to constitution to hold up to the demands of the position.
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texans hire former Falcons OL coach Paul Dunn to the same position. Not sure what I make of this. Falcons OL horrible this past season when they went 4-12.
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dsorc


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texansfan713 wrote:
Texans hire former Falcons OL coach Paul Dunn to the same position. Not sure what I make of this. Falcons OL horrible this past season when they went 4-12.

I wouldn't judge him by last year given that both projected starting OTs for the Falcons were hurt.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsorc wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
Texans hire former Falcons OL coach Paul Dunn to the same position. Not sure what I make of this. Falcons OL horrible this past season when they went 4-12.

I wouldn't judge him by last year given that both projected starting OTs for the Falcons were hurt.


Former Texan, Charles Spencer who was coached by Dunn at Pitt took to twitter after he heard the news.....



Charles Spencer Jr. ‏@CSpencer77 12h
Terrible RT @Zepp1978: #Texans RT @alexmarvez: Source tells @FOXSports that Paul Dunn is @HoustonTexans new offensive line coach

Charles Spencer Jr. ‏@CSpencer77 12h
Poor Duane...

You? Yeah me too... RT @jasonmcmeekin: @PatDStat @CSpencer77 now I'm really concerned
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://prod.www.falcons.clubs.nfl.com/team/coaches/Paul-Dunn/79cdf20f-777b-45e0-9cb0-e97c47f745d4

May want to read up on the guy. Rather than just making assumptions from comments from a guy who played here for a year.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
dsorc wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
Texans hire former Falcons OL coach Paul Dunn to the same position. Not sure what I make of this. Falcons OL horrible this past season when they went 4-12.

I wouldn't judge him by last year given that both projected starting OTs for the Falcons were hurt.


Former Texan, Charles Spencer who was coached by Dunn at Pitt took to twitter after he heard the news.....



Charles Spencer Jr. ‏@CSpencer77 12h
Terrible RT @Zepp1978: #Texans RT @alexmarvez: Source tells @FOXSports that Paul Dunn is @HoustonTexans new offensive line coach

Charles Spencer Jr. ‏@CSpencer77 12h
Poor Duane...

You? Yeah me too... RT @jasonmcmeekin: @PatDStat @CSpencer77 now I'm really concerned


Amazing what qualifies as "news" these days and even more amazing "who" makes it. I can't say I know much about Dunn, but I do know that he coached an o-line in Atl that lacked much in the way of talent (Sam Baker???) that kept a pure pocket passer like Matt Ryan upright and block well for washed up RBs like Turner and Jackson. Sure, last season was a disaster for them largely due to injury, but it's not like I would blame Dennison here for Kubiak & Smith's terrible decisions to start Newton and drafting damaged goods last year, and falling for another overhyped Bama lineman in Ben Jones. As for Spencer, the dude played 2 football games for the Texans before suffering a crippling injury. Sure, he has a right to his opinion on his former coach at Pitt, but there isn't a coach around who was beloved by all of his players. You might want to ask Tyson Clabo about Dunn considering Clabo was an undrafted FA that bounced thru 3 practice squads before Dunn helped mold him into a Pro Bowl LT.

While I'm at it, let's not forget to take the opinions of the fans base with a grain of salt as well as people rarely speak well of departed coaches or players (or they wouldn't have been forced to depart). Goodness knows, I didn't have good things to say about Trindon Holliday or Jacoby Jones when they departed, but Texans kick returners are in the Super Bowl two straight seasons, so history bares out that Marciano was the problem, not them, just as the paltry talent level of Atlanta's o-line could likely be bourne out this season, not anything Dunn "forgot" from their consecutive playoff appearances to last year. When the Julio Jones trade happened, I warned that the sexiness of the move would wear off as giving up so much for skill position players almost always leads to deficiencies on the lines, defense, and depth which certainly tanked them last year.
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
dsorc wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
Texans hire former Falcons OL coach Paul Dunn to the same position. Not sure what I make of this. Falcons OL horrible this past season when they went 4-12.

I wouldn't judge him by last year given that both projected starting OTs for the Falcons were hurt.


Former Texan, Charles Spencer who was coached by Dunn at Pitt took to twitter after he heard the news.....



Charles Spencer Jr. ‏@CSpencer77 12h
Terrible RT @Zepp1978: #Texans RT @alexmarvez: Source tells @FOXSports that Paul Dunn is @HoustonTexans new offensive line coach

Charles Spencer Jr. ‏@CSpencer77 12h
Poor Duane...

You? Yeah me too... RT @jasonmcmeekin: @PatDStat @CSpencer77 now I'm really concerned


Amazing what qualifies as "news" these days and even more amazing "who" makes it. I can't say I know much about Dunn, but I do know that he coached an o-line in Atl that lacked much in the way of talent (Sam Baker???) that kept a pure pocket passer like Matt Ryan upright and block well for washed up RBs like Turner and Jackson. Sure, last season was a disaster for them largely due to injury, but it's not like I would blame Dennison here for Kubiak & Smith's terrible decisions to start Newton and drafting damaged goods last year, and falling for another overhyped Bama lineman in Ben Jones. As for Spencer, the dude played 2 football games for the Texans before suffering a crippling injury. Sure, he has a right to his opinion on his former coach at Pitt, but there isn't a coach around who was beloved by all of his players. You might want to ask Tyson Clabo about Dunn considering Clabo was an undrafted FA that bounced thru 3 practice squads before Dunn helped mold him into a Pro Bowl LT.

While I'm at it, let's not forget to take the opinions of the fans base with a grain of salt as well as people rarely speak well of departed coaches or players (or they wouldn't have been forced to depart). Goodness knows, I didn't have good things to say about Trindon Holliday or Jacoby Jones when they departed, but Texans kick returners are in the Super Bowl two straight seasons, so history bares out that Marciano was the problem, not them, just as the paltry talent level of Atlanta's o-line could likely be bourne out this season, not anything Dunn "forgot" from their consecutive playoff appearances to last year. When the Julio Jones trade happened, I warned that the sexiness of the move would wear off as giving up so much for skill position players almost always leads to deficiencies on the lines, defense, and depth which certainly tanked them last year.


Ben Jones is from UGA, and is a 5th round draft pick who has contributed rather than being buried at the bottom of the depth chart. So I would call him a mild success considering where he was taken in the draft.

Apollo, no mention of how Richardson was shown for the fraud he was last week at the Sr. Bowl. Maybe the Texans can get him on the 3rd day of the draft.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
dsorc wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
Texans hire former Falcons OL coach Paul Dunn to the same position. Not sure what I make of this. Falcons OL horrible this past season when they went 4-12.

I wouldn't judge him by last year given that both projected starting OTs for the Falcons were hurt.


Former Texan, Charles Spencer who was coached by Dunn at Pitt took to twitter after he heard the news.....



Charles Spencer Jr. ‏@CSpencer77 12h
Terrible RT @Zepp1978: #Texans RT @alexmarvez: Source tells @FOXSports that Paul Dunn is @HoustonTexans new offensive line coach

Charles Spencer Jr. ‏@CSpencer77 12h
Poor Duane...

You? Yeah me too... RT @jasonmcmeekin: @PatDStat @CSpencer77 now I'm really concerned


Amazing what qualifies as "news" these days and even more amazing "who" makes it. I can't say I know much about Dunn, but I do know that he coached an o-line in Atl that lacked much in the way of talent (Sam Baker???) that kept a pure pocket passer like Matt Ryan upright and block well for washed up RBs like Turner and Jackson. Sure, last season was a disaster for them largely due to injury, but it's not like I would blame Dennison here for Kubiak & Smith's terrible decisions to start Newton and drafting damaged goods last year, and falling for another overhyped Bama lineman in Ben Jones. As for Spencer, the dude played 2 football games for the Texans before suffering a crippling injury. Sure, he has a right to his opinion on his former coach at Pitt, but there isn't a coach around who was beloved by all of his players. You might want to ask Tyson Clabo about Dunn considering Clabo was an undrafted FA that bounced thru 3 practice squads before Dunn helped mold him into a Pro Bowl LT.

While I'm at it, let's not forget to take the opinions of the fans base with a grain of salt as well as people rarely speak well of departed coaches or players (or they wouldn't have been forced to depart). Goodness knows, I didn't have good things to say about Trindon Holliday or Jacoby Jones when they departed, but Texans kick returners are in the Super Bowl two straight seasons, so history bares out that Marciano was the problem, not them, just as the paltry talent level of Atlanta's o-line could likely be bourne out this season, not anything Dunn "forgot" from their consecutive playoff appearances to last year. When the Julio Jones trade happened, I warned that the sexiness of the move would wear off as giving up so much for skill position players almost always leads to deficiencies on the lines, defense, and depth which certainly tanked them last year.


Ben Jones is from UGA, and is a 5th round draft pick who has contributed rather than being buried at the bottom of the depth chart. So I would call him a mild success considering where he was taken in the draft.

Apollo, no mention of how Richardson was shown for the fraud he was last week at the Sr. Bowl. Maybe the Texans can get him on the 3rd day of the draft.


Correction: High 4th Rounder (4th pick of the 4th). Yep, you caught my error as I misclassified overhyped SEC o-lineman for overhyped Alabama o-lineman. Are you arguing that Ben Jones has been anything less than one of the worst interior lineman in pass protection in the NFL the past two seasons? The point was that the Texans went from having one of the top o-lines in the NFL in 2011 to one of the worst and that wasn't the o-line coach's fault, it was the people who decided to replace Winston and Brisiel with Newton and Jones (12) and Brooks (13) and had no better options than Jones or Cody White to replace Wade Smith who was hurt all season. Meanwhile, the Packers started their 4th rounder David Bakhtiari at LT all season and more often than not left him on an island. We drafted damaged goods in Brennan Williams and got to watch him sit in the tub thru 90% of camp then play in one preseason game then get sent to the IR resort - brilliant! Do you not think that decisions like that might be why the Packers were in the playoffs despite much greater injury issues than we had, while we sit again as the worst team in football?

Not sure what Richardson has to do with this, but if a bad week at an all-star game caused Cyril to drop from the 2nd to 5th round, somebody would be getting a colossal steal. If you watched the Pro Bowl, you'll see what an advantage the d-line has over o-line in these games. O-line operates as a unit of players it takes months if not years to gel with, while d-linemen just pin their ears back and push rush every play with QBs motivated to make plays vs. throw balls away. There is a reason Jake Matthews didn't want to play...
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comparing Jones to Bakhtiari is irrelevant unless your wanting to point out Rick Smith's short comings as a GM. Those type of draft picks could be the reason why the Texans cleaned house with the scouting dept. this offseason. If you say continuity is everything for an OL then how can Jones get any while playing every once in a while, and sometimes at different positions each time.

Like I said he has been serviceable, and since everything is pointing to the Texans playing more of a power blocking scheme Jones may be better suited for that than a ZBS. Only time will tell.

I usually agree with most of what you say, but just don't understand your hatred for the SEC. Richardson showed some of his short coming at the Sr bowl to show he isn't this great talent that you proclaimed him to be about 2-3 weeks ago.

It makes since for Matthews to skip the Sr. Bowl as he is a top 5 pick as it couldn't help him, but only hurt him in the Draft.
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kenney


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
Comparing Jones to Bakhtiari is irrelevant unless your wanting to point out Rick Smith's short comings as a GM. Those type of draft picks could be the reason why the Texans cleaned house with the scouting dept. this offseason. If you say continuity is everything for an OL then how can Jones get any while playing every once in a while, and sometimes at different positions each time.

Like I said he has been serviceable, and since everything is pointing to the Texans playing more of a power blocking scheme Jones may be better suited for that than a ZBS. Only time will tell.

I usually agree with most of what you say, but just don't understand your hatred for the SEC. Richardson showed some of his short coming at the Sr bowl to show he isn't this great talent that you proclaimed him to be about 2-3 weeks ago.

It makes since for Matthews to skip the Sr. Bowl as he is a top 5 pick as it couldn't help him, but only hurt him in the Draft.


He hates the SEC because he's the biggest homer on the planet. For Baylor. Enough to give anyone an insufferable inferiority complex.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
Comparing Jones to Bakhtiari is irrelevant unless your wanting to point out Rick Smith's short comings as a GM. Those type of draft picks could be the reason why the Texans cleaned house with the scouting dept. this offseason. If you say continuity is everything for an OL then how can Jones get any while playing every once in a while, and sometimes at different positions each time.

Like I said he has been serviceable, and since everything is pointing to the Texans playing more of a power blocking scheme Jones may be better suited for that than a ZBS. Only time will tell.

I usually agree with most of what you say, but just don't understand your hatred for the SEC. Richardson showed some of his short coming at the Sr bowl to show he isn't this great talent that you proclaimed him to be about 2-3 weeks ago.

It makes since for Matthews to skip the Sr. Bowl as he is a top 5 pick as it couldn't help him, but only hurt him in the Draft.


I wasn't comparing Jones to Bakhtiari but rather Brennan Williams to Bakhtiari who was the next Tackle taken in 2013 and unlike Williams, wasn't a gimp. Yes, I was endeavoring to point out that like the Falcons, the Texans primary issues on the o-line were talent based, not position coaching (remember - this started with Dunn being a fall guy in Atl). But now that you mention it, Bakhtiari was also taken in a draft slot after Ben Jones in 2012 who you assert should have been just viewed as bottom of the roster depth, yet he started 10 abysmal games as a rookie at RG and was even worse in rotation at LG last year.

The seeds of the Texans 2013 collapse were sewn in Texans awful draft performance outside of the first round the past 4 seasons (and even that is debatable with Mercilus marginal impact, Kareem following up his only decent season with a 3rd pathetic one, and even Nuk's rookie season being equaled or surpassed by 3rd rounders like Keenan Allen and Terrence Williams who were rated similarly yet provided great draft value. If a team needs to use 1st and 2nd rounders to have any chance of fielding quality starters, they will NEVER get over the hump, so you damn well better be able to draft quality starting guards, right tackles, dbacks, TE's and ILBs in the middle rounds.

There is a team playing this Sunday that drafted MVP candidate Earl Thomas 6 spots ahead of Kareem Jackson and filled out it's secondary with a 4th Rounder (Thurmond) and 2 5th rounders (Sherman and Chancellor). Perhaps Texan fans need to stop being so forgiving of the guy who chose to take guys like Harris, Carmichael, Keo, and McManus over them not to mention resigning Brice McCain and ditching Glover Quin for another gimp in Ed Reed. We spent 2 first rounders and 2 2nd rounders on pass rushers 09-12 and 2 more 3rd rounders last year, yet JJ Watt remains the only one of the 6 who can consistently impact while Seattle gets Avril for a fraction of his value and Bennett for next to nothing while being built around middle round picks like Red Bryant, Brandon Medbane, KJ Wright, and a 7th rounder like Malcolm Smith. We act like some 6th round guard not being awful in pre-season before going down for the season and a #3 TE getting some garbage time receptions is a sign that Rick Smith has some ability to find diamonds in the rough. The reality is that NONE of Rick's late picks have stood the test of time as Diles, McCain, Nolan, Barber, Bullock and Newton are the only ones that even come close if you don't count the ones we were smart enough to draft, but not to keep (Holliday, Chris Jones, Shelley Smith). It's time to hold the person primarily responsible for the talent on the roster accountable for his abject failure the past 4 drafts in the rounds where GMs really earn their reps and stop supporting medicrity by terming picks like Jones or Crick successful, because roster fodder is all we should expect in the 4th round.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considered making a thread for the Ravens Kubiak/Dennison hire, but figured it's time to move on from bashing our ex-coaches. I will applaud him for not pulling a Jacoby Jones and bashing a team that gave him more rope to hang himself than anyone else would have. Kubiak is nothing if not a class act and that will be missed. I actually think he will probably do well when freed to focus on what he does best as he was always a bit over his head as a head coach. The Ravens problem for years (just like the Steelers) has been that they have come to rely too much on a QB who's success came when burning teams hyperfocused on shutting down their power run game, not as the primary weapon. Flacco and Ben have major league arms, but they simply are not the type of QBs that should be throwing 35+ times as their accuracy isn't good enough and their decision making can be suspect (Ben takes too many unnecessary sacks and Flacco throws too many ints). If Gary succeeds in reestablishing a run-first mentality there and Ray Rice returns to form, they should improve and Pitta is instantly upgraded on my fantasy radar. Additionally, the Ravens are in need of Gary's specialty which is a slow possession receiver. Of course, let's see what Gary does about his red zone problem and I sure don't see the Ravens line equipped to transition to any ZBS system. It is going to be annoying to hear how the Ravens always succeed with our scraps, and I suspect Rick Smith is fuming that his nemesis, Ozzie Newsome will potentially make him look bad yet again.
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