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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3622
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
Raji may end up costing too much.

"Impending free agent C Alex Mack is expected to test the open market.
Mack, 28, will likely be the Browns' top priority and could be franchise-tagged, but CEO Joe Banner may not believe in doling out that kind of cash to a center. Mack is going to be a hot commodity on the open market and is easily the top center available in free agency -- he graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 1 center in 2013. He'll probably aim for a deal similar to the one Ryan Kalil signed with the Panthers at six years and $49.1 million with $19 million guaranteed. Mack has previously said he'll give the Browns a chance to match any offer, though that was before the coaching staff was fired after one season."

per rotoworld.


I don't think the Brown's franchise anyone. They're a notoriously cheap organization.
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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
muppetbaby wrote:
PackerReport: "Source says there's nothing new to report on FA-to-be #Packers CB Sam Shields. Seems increasingly likely he'll hit the market."


With Reggies ties to GB, hope he gets a long look.

Raji also wants out. Wants to be more of a disruptive DT than an anchor. Wouldn't' mind him in Oakland penetrating from the DT spot.


he'd be a great call, sure Reggie is thinking it too
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Big Rob


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raji, Shields and Griffen...thatd be ideal...then we could go offense in the draft...
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Rolni


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:


Not directed at you, I am tempted to use NFL Rewind to count how many times the Raiders deployed a 34 defense as I am "hybrid" defense fatigued. Was DA using a 34 because of the defenses complete inability to mount a pass rush? Idk. What is the consensus on how much 34 the Raiders ran? Why would Raji come to Oakland if the Raiders run 34 50% of time?

Clearly Raji wants to be an UT. He wants someone next to him to eat double teams so he can focus on splitting the gap. Personally, it looked like to me both DTs were playing gap control mostly. I can't really see the fit UNLESS either the Raiders acquire either Hardy or Clowney or both and go pure 43 and scrap the "hybrid" because with that much pressure on the edges you could have an UT and won't have to disguise much with that much talent. "This is what we play and it's up to their offense to block it" attitude.

I just don't see it. Players aren't THAT stupid. What "hybrid" turns into is mainly 34 defense the second Raji is added without Hardy or Clowney. Why? Because Raji is great at what he does, which is eating blockers. The Raiders shouldn't try to fool a guy who wants to be an UT into playing in a 34. Raji has already been offered money which he declined and has already experienced team success. He wants some "me" time and play in a fun defense where he is highlighted. No problem. But I wouldn't want to fool anyone into coming to Oakland anyways because that's how you get Haynesworth meltdowns.

You 34 guys tickle me. Always trying to sneak the 34 in. "Well we have Sims, Houston and BJ Raji now and all these leos running around and the 43 isn't working maybe we should try a 34 base?" Lol. duh? I would love for BJ to sign with Oakland but I can't see it happening without assurances and a commitment to the 43 which is ultimately not what 34 guys want to hear. (not to anyone in particular) So pick one. Either Raji is coming and the Raiders are going 43 but I highly doubt anyone who wants to be an UT wants to be in a hybrid 43 so move on from Raji.


Great post man!!

I agree with you big time that we should really go after guys who fits our scheme and who wanna play here and believing in the coaches, concepts.

Raji clearly wanna be in a more free/distruptive role. I think it's not about 3-4DE or 4-3DT position, since a 1 gap shooting 3-4DE could have a lot more "fun" than a 2 gap 4-3DT. It's really about gap responsibilities IMO. The modern D in the NFL is about gaps, reads and duties, not 3-4 or 4-3 formulas.
How many 3-4 did we play last year? Depends on what we call 3-4...Houston was playing from a 2 point stance almost all year, so basically we played almost only 3-4...however Houston was mostly "only" rushing the passer, setting the edge like a traditional 4-3DE would, he wasn't dropped back into coverage, so we played 4-3??

Not that easy to answer IMO.

Back to Raji...
As you said our DT's played a lot gap controll. Call it 2 gap or simply run contain, but they were in a pretty strickt role IMO. That could be against Raji's preferences.

We will see I guess Smile
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
early43 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Raji may end up costing too much.

"Impending free agent C Alex Mack is expected to test the open market.
Mack, 28, will likely be the Browns' top priority and could be franchise-tagged, but CEO Joe Banner may not believe in doling out that kind of cash to a center. Mack is going to be a hot commodity on the open market and is easily the top center available in free agency -- he graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 1 center in 2013. He'll probably aim for a deal similar to the one Ryan Kalil signed with the Panthers at six years and $49.1 million with $19 million guaranteed. Mack has previously said he'll give the Browns a chance to match any offer, though that was before the coaching staff was fired after one season."

per rotoworld.


I don't think Raji could ever cost too much for us. We want to run a hybrid defense, hes the perfect type of DT to have. Scheme diverse, can rash from the middle, can hold a edge... Although I have always thought he was poorly utilized in GB, much like Dorsey in KC, he would be a instant upgrade at the UT for us.


Not directed at you, I am tempted to use NFL Rewind to count how many times the Raiders deployed a 34 defense as I am "hybrid" defense fatigued. Was DA using a 34 because of the defenses complete inability to mount a pass rush? Idk. What is the consensus on how much 34 the Raiders ran? Why would Raji come to Oakland if the Raiders run 34 50% of time?

Clearly Raji wants to be an UT. He wants someone next to him to eat double teams so he can focus on splitting the gap. Personally, it looked like to me both DTs were playing gap control mostly. I can't really see the fit UNLESS either the Raiders acquire either Hardy or Clowney or both and go pure 43 and scrap the "hybrid" because with that much pressure on the edges you could have an UT and won't have to disguise much with that much talent. "This is what we play and it's up to their offense to block it" attitude.

I just don't see it. Players aren't THAT stupid. What "hybrid" turns into is mainly 34 defense the second Raji is added without Hardy or Clowney. Why? Because Raji is great at what he does, which is eating blockers. The Raiders shouldn't try to fool a guy who wants to be an UT into playing in a 34. Raji has already been offered money which he declined and has already experienced team success. He wants some "me" time and play in a fun defense where he is highlighted. No problem. But I wouldn't want to fool anyone into coming to Oakland anyways because that's how you get Haynesworth meltdowns.

You 34 guys tickle me. Always trying to sneak the 34 in. "Well we have Sims, Houston and BJ Raji now and all these leos running around and the 43 isn't working maybe we should try a 34 base?" Lol. duh? I would love for BJ to sign with Oakland but I can't see it happening without assurances and a commitment to the 43 which is ultimately not what 34 guys want to hear. (not to anyone in particular) So pick one. Either Raji is coming and the Raiders are going 43 but I highly doubt anyone who wants to be an UT wants to be in a hybrid 43 so move on from Raji.


Doesn't JJ Watt play in a 3-4 and he seems to be highlighted quite a bit. You seem to be assuming that 3-4 or hybrid defenses are all run the same and that the linemen are there just eat up blockers. Why is it impossible for Raji not to be a penetrator in a hybrid 3-4 scheme.

I am not saying we should sign Raji but to rule him out purely because you think he can only play in a 4-3 suggests you don't understand the different schemes a 3-4 hybrid can run.
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bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Raiders have brought in the reigning Grey Cup MVP for a workout. According to Adam Caplan of ESPN, Saskatchewan Roughriders running back Kory Sheets went through a workout with Oakland on Tuesday.

The 27-year-old Sheets rushed for 1,598 yards in 2013, second-most in the Canadian Football League. He rushed for 197 yards in the Roughriders’ 45-23 win vs. the Hamilton Tiger-Cats in November’s Grey Cup game.

Before joining the Roughriders in 2012, Sheets (5-11, 208) had NFL stints with the 49ers, Dolphins and Panthers. He worked out for the Colts in December.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/29/raiders-work-out-kory-sheets/
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reggie doing his due dilligence, the more depth and holes we can fill in FA with quality players the better off well be going into the draft...id love to go BPA regardless of position...
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Rob wrote:
Raji, Shields and Griffen...thatd be ideal...then we could go offense in the draft...


I've been on the Griffen bandwagon for a while now. For how much he will get paid, he will offer a nice pass rush IMO.
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Big Rob


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm going to get ripped for this but Mike Vick would be our best QB the moment he signs a contract...stop gap until we get a legit QBoTF...
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Big Rob


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
Raji, Shields and Griffen...thatd be ideal...then we could go offense in the draft...


I've been on the Griffen bandwagon for a while now. For how much he will get paid, he will offer a nice pass rush IMO.


Plus he still young and has only gotten better...him Houston and a top 3 RD draft pick and we could have a nice upgrade at DE...
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daineraider


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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Location: Salt Lake City
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Rob wrote:
Raji, Shields and Griffen...thatd be ideal...then we could go offense in the draft...


I would still take Mack(or Clowney if somehow he is still there) at 5 if Bridgewater isnt available. Maybe take Matthews or Robinson to sure up our OL.
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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
early43 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Raji may end up costing too much.

"Impending free agent C Alex Mack is expected to test the open market.
Mack, 28, will likely be the Browns' top priority and could be franchise-tagged, but CEO Joe Banner may not believe in doling out that kind of cash to a center. Mack is going to be a hot commodity on the open market and is easily the top center available in free agency -- he graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 1 center in 2013. He'll probably aim for a deal similar to the one Ryan Kalil signed with the Panthers at six years and $49.1 million with $19 million guaranteed. Mack has previously said he'll give the Browns a chance to match any offer, though that was before the coaching staff was fired after one season."

per rotoworld.


I don't think Raji could ever cost too much for us. We want to run a hybrid defense, hes the perfect type of DT to have. Scheme diverse, can rash from the middle, can hold a edge... Although I have always thought he was poorly utilized in GB, much like Dorsey in KC, he would be a instant upgrade at the UT for us.


Not directed at you, I am tempted to use NFL Rewind to count how many times the Raiders deployed a 34 defense as I am "hybrid" defense fatigued. Was DA using a 34 because of the defenses complete inability to mount a pass rush? Idk. What is the consensus on how much 34 the Raiders ran? Why would Raji come to Oakland if the Raiders run 34 50% of time?

Clearly Raji wants to be an UT. He wants someone next to him to eat double teams so he can focus on splitting the gap. Personally, it looked like to me both DTs were playing gap control mostly. I can't really see the fit UNLESS either the Raiders acquire either Hardy or Clowney or both and go pure 43 and scrap the "hybrid" because with that much pressure on the edges you could have an UT and won't have to disguise much with that much talent. "This is what we play and it's up to their offense to block it" attitude.

I just don't see it. Players aren't THAT stupid. What "hybrid" turns into is mainly 34 defense the second Raji is added without Hardy or Clowney. Why? Because Raji is great at what he does, which is eating blockers. The Raiders shouldn't try to fool a guy who wants to be an UT into playing in a 34. Raji has already been offered money which he declined and has already experienced team success. He wants some "me" time and play in a fun defense where he is highlighted. No problem. But I wouldn't want to fool anyone into coming to Oakland anyways because that's how you get Haynesworth meltdowns.

You 34 guys tickle me. Always trying to sneak the 34 in. "Well we have Sims, Houston and BJ Raji now and all these leos running around and the 43 isn't working maybe we should try a 34 base?" Lol. duh? I would love for BJ to sign with Oakland but I can't see it happening without assurances and a commitment to the 43 which is ultimately not what 34 guys want to hear. (not to anyone in particular) So pick one. Either Raji is coming and the Raiders are going 43 but I highly doubt anyone who wants to be an UT wants to be in a hybrid 43 so move on from Raji.


Good points.

I am not a fan of the "hybrid' defense. Outside of Baltimore, no great defense has ran a hybrid with much success. People are going to prob point to NE but they were winning super bowls with a straight 3-4. You look at the top 3 defense this last year, and they were 'pure" 4-3 or 3-4. SEA, SF, CAR. It seems that when a team goes hybrid, its effects personnel in that you have to draft/sign two types of players, instead of focusing one your specific scheme.

My only source of reference in using the "hybrid" argument for the Raiders is from DA saying he would like to be multiple. Although to this point we have been strictly a 4-3 defense, I implied this to mean he will run whatever defense best suits his players. If Raji comes here, he can and should be playing the UT. His ability to hold the edge could possibly add a wrinkle to our defense in the event we need to use some 3-4 but since we seem to be built to run a 4-3, he have a GM with ties to GB, and the money to sign players, Raji most certainly needs to be targeted IMO.

Depending on what style of 3-4 you are running, the Dline can be major pass rushers. Wade Phillips runs the 3-4 were the DE get a lot of pressure/sacks. JJ Watt and Bruce Smith are examples. Whereas, - LeBeau runs a system that calls for the Dline to be run supporters. Just depends on which style DA/Tarver wants to employ. If we are in the Phillips style, that would possibly be another reason for him to sign here.

But the best solution IMO, is to stay 4-3, since that's what our current defense is, and let Raji (big assumption that he is targeted by Reggie) be our UT.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see Melton as a real possiblity and would rather have him than Raji. Bears dont exactly have a ton of money and there is tension between Melton and management already.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
I could see Melton as a real possiblity and would rather have him than Raji. Bears dont exactly have a ton of money and there is tension between Melton and management already.


I'd rather have a healthy Raji penetrating than Melton coming off an ACL personally.
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
I could see Melton as a real possiblity and would rather have him than Raji. Bears dont exactly have a ton of money and there is tension between Melton and management already.


I'd rather have a healthy Raji penetrating than Melton coming off an ACL personally.


Raji had pro football focus' lowest grade for an interior lineman last year and had absolutely 0 production. I think I'd rather kick the tires on Melton because he can really rush the passer and he was pro bowl caliber pre injury. We already have 2 nose tackle type players in sims and mcgee anyway. We need the pass rusher from the interior more than another run clogger who will be overpaid in the offseason.
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