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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In today's NFL you need 3 starting-caliber CB's or else you're screwed. We have 2 and then a HUGE drop off to our 3rd. I just want to know who we're going to throw out there when we play nickel coverage about 80% of the games we play in.

As of right now, it's just not looking good unless Asa Jackson has made some really big strides and doesn't get in trouble.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
In today's NFL you need 3 starting-caliber CB's or else you're screwed. We have 2 and then a HUGE drop off to our 3rd. I just want to know who we're going to throw out there when we play nickel coverage about 80% of the games we play in.

As of right now, it's just not looking good unless Asa Jackson has made some really big strides and doesn't get in trouble.


You'll find out closer to Sept... just like every year we add guys after camp cuts and young guys step up. No need to get worried in June.
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just curious, what exactly has Brown done to warrant being written off as this terribad corner? Granted he hasn't lit the league on fire since he joined the team, he's been more than serviceable in spot starts and the times he has seen the field. I'm sure we could stand to upgrade the position, but it's not like an average corner who is third or fourth on your depth chart is going to make or break your season.
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
In today's NFL you need 3 starting-caliber CB's or else you're screwed. We have 2 and then a HUGE drop off to our 3rd. I just want to know who we're going to throw out there when we play nickel coverage about 80% of the games we play in.

As of right now, it's just not looking good unless Asa Jackson has made some really big strides and doesn't get in trouble.


I'm not buying that logic. You can cover up deficiencies with better play elsewhere. We have addressed every level of the defense this offseason with the additions of Mosley, the plethora of DL drafted, and Stewart/Brooks at S, so the defense is better today than it was at the end of last season.

Besides, starting caliber CBs get paid to be starters. Who was available at any point meeting that description that would have fit under the salary cap? Especially since we had to also address the OL, WR, and RB positions that also needed to be addressed.

You can't have it all. I know people think it's easy to "just sign/trade for (insert player name here)," but reality works differently. Players have destination preferences, salary cap restrictions come into play, and big names aren't necessarily big players.

It's only June, the sky is not falling. Relax and wait until we see what plays out in camp.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
In today's NFL you need 3 starting-caliber CB's or else you're screwed. We have 2 and then a HUGE drop off to our 3rd. I just want to know who we're going to throw out there when we play nickel coverage about 80% of the games we play in.

As of right now, it's just not looking good unless Asa Jackson has made some really big strides and doesn't get in trouble.


I'm not buying that logic. You can cover up deficiencies with better play elsewhere. We have addressed every level of the defense this offseason with the additions of Mosley, the plethora of DL drafted, and Stewart/Brooks at S, so the defense is better today than it was at the end of last season.

Besides, starting caliber CBs get paid to be starters. Who was available at any point meeting that description that would have fit under the salary cap? Especially since we had to also address the OL, WR, and RB positions that also needed to be addressed.

You can't have it all. I know people think it's easy to "just sign/trade for (insert player name here)," but reality works differently. Players have destination preferences, salary cap restrictions come into play, and big names aren't necessarily big players.

It's only June, the sky is not falling. Relax and wait until we see what plays out in camp.


Pretty much every elite team has at least 3 CB's who are above-average to starter caliber.
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
In today's NFL you need 3 starting-caliber CB's or else you're screwed. We have 2 and then a HUGE drop off to our 3rd. I just want to know who we're going to throw out there when we play nickel coverage about 80% of the games we play in.

As of right now, it's just not looking good unless Asa Jackson has made some really big strides and doesn't get in trouble.


I'm not buying that logic. You can cover up deficiencies with better play elsewhere. We have addressed every level of the defense this offseason with the additions of Mosley, the plethora of DL drafted, and Stewart/Brooks at S, so the defense is better today than it was at the end of last season.

Besides, starting caliber CBs get paid to be starters. Who was available at any point meeting that description that would have fit under the salary cap? Especially since we had to also address the OL, WR, and RB positions that also needed to be addressed.

You can't have it all. I know people think it's easy to "just sign/trade for (insert player name here)," but reality works differently. Players have destination preferences, salary cap restrictions come into play, and big names aren't necessarily big players.

It's only June, the sky is not falling. Relax and wait until we see what plays out in camp.


Pretty much every elite team has at least 3 CB's who are above-average to starter caliber.


No they don't, that's the point.

Even the Seahawks were flawed at the nickel and dime CB spots last year, especially when Browner was out, but they have elite Ss and a never ending supply of pass rushers to cover up that deficiency. Denver, San Francisco, and New England are similarly flawed, but they use their defensive strengths and schemes to cover those flaws up.

None of the supposedly "elite" teams have three above average or better CBs, and if there is a team out there that does, they have so much cap space tied up in them that they a big hole somewhere else on the roster and aren't truly "elite" teams. Because, again, good CBs get paid.

Like I said before, it's only June. This isn't as big a deal at this point as you're making it out to be.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
In today's NFL you need 3 starting-caliber CB's or else you're screwed. We have 2 and then a HUGE drop off to our 3rd. I just want to know who we're going to throw out there when we play nickel coverage about 80% of the games we play in.

As of right now, it's just not looking good unless Asa Jackson has made some really big strides and doesn't get in trouble.


I'm not buying that logic. You can cover up deficiencies with better play elsewhere. We have addressed every level of the defense this offseason with the additions of Mosley, the plethora of DL drafted, and Stewart/Brooks at S, so the defense is better today than it was at the end of last season.

Besides, starting caliber CBs get paid to be starters. Who was available at any point meeting that description that would have fit under the salary cap? Especially since we had to also address the OL, WR, and RB positions that also needed to be addressed.

You can't have it all. I know people think it's easy to "just sign/trade for (insert player name here)," but reality works differently. Players have destination preferences, salary cap restrictions come into play, and big names aren't necessarily big players.

It's only June, the sky is not falling. Relax and wait until we see what plays out in camp.


Pretty much every elite team has at least 3 CB's who are above-average to starter caliber.


No they don't, that's the point.

Even the Seahawks were flawed at the nickel and dime CB spots last year, especially when Browner was out, but they have elite Ss and a never ending supply of pass rushers to cover up that deficiency. Denver, San Francisco, and New England are similarly flawed, but they use their defensive strengths and schemes to cover those flaws up.

None of the supposedly "elite" teams have three above average or better CBs, and if there is a team out there that does, they have so much cap space tied up in them that they a big hole somewhere else on the roster and aren't truly "elite" teams. Because, again, good CBs get paid.

Like I said before, it's only June. This isn't as big a deal at this point as you're making it out to be.


What? Seattle was rolling 4 deep at CB even after Browner was injured with Lane and Thurmond! And now that Browner and Thurmond are gone (like you said, good CB's get paid), they still have 3 CB's capable of playing every down and holding their own...Baltimore doesn't have that right now (I'm not panicking, just stating a fact).

I mean look around the league at the best teams: NO, NE, GB, SEA, SF, they all have 3 corners who aren't a liability. Coincidence? No, it's not.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, we already won a SB with Chykie Brown as our #3 CB for the majority of the season.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Well, we already won a SB with Chykie Brown as our #3 CB for the majority of the season.

Pretty much.

The way for an unreliable CB option to prove that he's in fact reliable, is for the guy to play.

Chykie Brown looked good in his playing time in what 2010/11? And it was expected that he would challenge for the #3 CB spot the following year. That spot would eventually go to Corey Graham after he played really well in camp. Thus Brown has had spot playing time since then and has been inconsistent, but money is a very powerful motivator. I expect Brown to be much improved given a higher frequency of quality snaps in camp.

That said, Asa Jackson probably takes the #3 corner spot. He's got playmaking ability and nice hands. He just needs to stop making stupid mistakes. He's always excelled during his playing time in the preseason. If he's not suspended to start the season... I expect him to be on the field. No way Harbaugh keeps him on the roster this long if the team didn't think he was talented.
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
In today's NFL you need 3 starting-caliber CB's or else you're screwed. We have 2 and then a HUGE drop off to our 3rd. I just want to know who we're going to throw out there when we play nickel coverage about 80% of the games we play in.

As of right now, it's just not looking good unless Asa Jackson has made some really big strides and doesn't get in trouble.


I'm not buying that logic. You can cover up deficiencies with better play elsewhere. We have addressed every level of the defense this offseason with the additions of Mosley, the plethora of DL drafted, and Stewart/Brooks at S, so the defense is better today than it was at the end of last season.

Besides, starting caliber CBs get paid to be starters. Who was available at any point meeting that description that would have fit under the salary cap? Especially since we had to also address the OL, WR, and RB positions that also needed to be addressed.

You can't have it all. I know people think it's easy to "just sign/trade for (insert player name here)," but reality works differently. Players have destination preferences, salary cap restrictions come into play, and big names aren't necessarily big players.

It's only June, the sky is not falling. Relax and wait until we see what plays out in camp.


Pretty much every elite team has at least 3 CB's who are above-average to starter caliber.


No they don't, that's the point.

Even the Seahawks were flawed at the nickel and dime CB spots last year, especially when Browner was out, but they have elite Ss and a never ending supply of pass rushers to cover up that deficiency. Denver, San Francisco, and New England are similarly flawed, but they use their defensive strengths and schemes to cover those flaws up.

None of the supposedly "elite" teams have three above average or better CBs, and if there is a team out there that does, they have so much cap space tied up in them that they a big hole somewhere else on the roster and aren't truly "elite" teams. Because, again, good CBs get paid.

Like I said before, it's only June. This isn't as big a deal at this point as you're making it out to be.


What? Seattle was rolling 4 deep at CB even after Browner was injured with Lane and Thurmond! And now that Browner and Thurmond are gone (like you said, good CB's get paid), they still have 3 CB's capable of playing every down and holding their own...Baltimore doesn't have that right now (I'm not panicking, just stating a fact).

I mean look around the league at the best teams: NO, NE, GB, SEA, SF, they all have 3 corners who aren't a liability. Coincidence? No, it's not.


You're reaching now. The 3rd/4th CBs on those teams are:

NO-Patrick Robinson/Corey White
NE-Logan Ryan/Kyle Arrington
GB-Casey Hayward/Davon House
SEA-Jeremy Lane/Tharold Simon
SF-Perrish Cox/Darryl Morris.

I don't know about you, but to me, that's a big bunch of meh, and with the exception of Hayward (maybe), there really isn't an above average player in the bunch, let alone a starting caliber player. So I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that those teams are so much better positioned than the Ravens are.

You're also backpedaling from "above average to starting caliber" to "not a liability." There's a huge difference between the two, and frankly, if the latter is your criteria, then we are fine with what we have on the roster and don't need any further additions. Frank Walker was a liability. Corey Ivy was a liability. Deron Jenkins was a liability. Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson are not in that category.

And you are seriously overrating Thurmond's abilities. In comparison to what other guys who really aren't special got in contracts this offseason, a 1 year, $3M deal (from the CB starved Giants) is very telling about his real value when he isn't protected by one of the better pass rushes in the NFL and the best S tandem the league has seen in years. So yeah, even as good as the Seahawks defense was last season, they weren't special at corner behind Sherman and Browner.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
In today's NFL you need 3 starting-caliber CB's or else you're screwed. We have 2 and then a HUGE drop off to our 3rd. I just want to know who we're going to throw out there when we play nickel coverage about 80% of the games we play in.

As of right now, it's just not looking good unless Asa Jackson has made some really big strides and doesn't get in trouble.


I'm not buying that logic. You can cover up deficiencies with better play elsewhere. We have addressed every level of the defense this offseason with the additions of Mosley, the plethora of DL drafted, and Stewart/Brooks at S, so the defense is better today than it was at the end of last season.

Besides, starting caliber CBs get paid to be starters. Who was available at any point meeting that description that would have fit under the salary cap? Especially since we had to also address the OL, WR, and RB positions that also needed to be addressed.

You can't have it all. I know people think it's easy to "just sign/trade for (insert player name here)," but reality works differently. Players have destination preferences, salary cap restrictions come into play, and big names aren't necessarily big players.

It's only June, the sky is not falling. Relax and wait until we see what plays out in camp.


Pretty much every elite team has at least 3 CB's who are above-average to starter caliber.


No they don't, that's the point.

Even the Seahawks were flawed at the nickel and dime CB spots last year, especially when Browner was out, but they have elite Ss and a never ending supply of pass rushers to cover up that deficiency. Denver, San Francisco, and New England are similarly flawed, but they use their defensive strengths and schemes to cover those flaws up.

None of the supposedly "elite" teams have three above average or better CBs, and if there is a team out there that does, they have so much cap space tied up in them that they a big hole somewhere else on the roster and aren't truly "elite" teams. Because, again, good CBs get paid.

Like I said before, it's only June. This isn't as big a deal at this point as you're making it out to be.


What? Seattle was rolling 4 deep at CB even after Browner was injured with Lane and Thurmond! And now that Browner and Thurmond are gone (like you said, good CB's get paid), they still have 3 CB's capable of playing every down and holding their own...Baltimore doesn't have that right now (I'm not panicking, just stating a fact).

I mean look around the league at the best teams: NO, NE, GB, SEA, SF, they all have 3 corners who aren't a liability. Coincidence? No, it's not.


You're reaching now. The 3rd/4th CBs on those teams are:

NO-Patrick Robinson/Corey White
NE-Logan Ryan/Kyle Arrington
GB-Casey Hayward/Davon House
SEA-Jeremy Lane/Tharold Simon
SF-Perrish Cox/Darryl Morris.

I don't know about you, but to me, that's a big bunch of meh, and with the exception of Hayward (maybe), there really isn't an above average player in the bunch, let alone a starting caliber player. So I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that those teams are so much better positioned than the Ravens are.

You're also backpedaling from "above average to starting caliber" to "not a liability." There's a huge difference between the two, and frankly, if the latter is your criteria, then we are fine with what we have on the roster and don't need any further additions. Frank Walker was a liability. Corey Ivy was a liability. Deron Jenkins was a liability. Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson are not in that category.

And you are seriously overrating Thurmond's abilities. In comparison to what other guys who really aren't special got in contracts this offseason, a 1 year, $3M deal (from the CB starved Giants) is very telling about his real value when he isn't protected by one of the better pass rushes in the NFL and the best S tandem the league has seen in years. So yeah, even as good as the Seahawks defense was last season, they weren't special at corner behind Sherman and Browner.


Literally every single 3rd CB you just listed is better, and a lot better, than Chykie Brown.

And yes, we won a Superbowl with Chykie as our #3 corner for most of the season and what a coincidence our defense that year was absolute TRASH until the playoffs where everyone elevated their game (can't remember Chykie specifically doing that, and even the INT he got was a gift that bounced into his hands).

All I'm saying is that watch - if we go into season with Chykie and Asa it's going to be hilarious watching those guys try to cover people on the outside and probably even more hilarious if they move them to the slot. Asa is the only one I really have hope for and that's because he hasn't played other than last preseason where he showed some potential on the outside.

My statement holds: Almost every quality playoff team has 3 CB's that they can roll out and be solid with. We don't.
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gooselovechild


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Literally every single 3rd CB you just listed is better, and a lot better, than Chykie Brown.

And yes, we won a Superbowl with Chykie as our #3 corner for most of the season and what a coincidence our defense that year was absolute TRASH until the playoffs where everyone elevated their game (can't remember Chykie specifically doing that, and even the INT he got was a gift that bounced into his hands).

All I'm saying is that watch - if we go into season with Chykie and Asa it's going to be hilarious watching those guys try to cover people on the outside and probably even more hilarious if they move them to the slot. Asa is the only one I really have hope for and that's because he hasn't played other than last preseason where he showed some potential on the outside.

My statement holds: Almost every quality playoff team has 3 CB's that they can roll out and be solid with. We don't.


Your hyperbolic rants have officially reached dizzying heights if you truly believe the bolded portion. Virtually every player I listed would be replaced in a nanosecond by their teams if there were better options. They aren't in any better position than we are, but you refuse to acknowledge that because of your rabid hatred for Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson.

You also keep glossing over the point I made originally--that if Brown/Jackson aren't cutting it in camp, Ozzie will make a trade or troll the waiver wire for a cap casualty to fill the nickel roll. He brings in a productive veteran near the end of camp virtually every year, and CB is as likely a spot as any other for that addition this year.

If this is how worked up you get in June, you're head might explode during the season. Relax, it's still early in the process, and the final 53 has yet to be determined. We don't kickoff this Sunday--this isn't as big a deal right now as you're making it.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Literally every single 3rd CB you just listed is better, and a lot better, than Chykie Brown.

And yes, we won a Superbowl with Chykie as our #3 corner for most of the season and what a coincidence our defense that year was absolute TRASH until the playoffs where everyone elevated their game (can't remember Chykie specifically doing that, and even the INT he got was a gift that bounced into his hands).

All I'm saying is that watch - if we go into season with Chykie and Asa it's going to be hilarious watching those guys try to cover people on the outside and probably even more hilarious if they move them to the slot. Asa is the only one I really have hope for and that's because he hasn't played other than last preseason where he showed some potential on the outside.

My statement holds: Almost every quality playoff team has 3 CB's that they can roll out and be solid with. We don't.


Your hyperbolic rants have officially reached dizzying heights if you truly believe the bolded portion. Virtually every player I listed would be replaced in a nanosecond by their teams if there were better options. They aren't in any better position than we are, but you refuse to acknowledge that because of your rabid hatred for Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson.

You also keep glossing over the point I made originally--that if Brown/Jackson aren't cutting it in camp, Ozzie will make a trade or troll the waiver wire for a cap casualty to fill the nickel roll. He brings in a productive veteran near the end of camp virtually every year, and CB is as likely a spot as any other for that addition this year.

If this is how worked up you get in June, you're head might explode during the season. Relax, it's still early in the process, and the final 53 has yet to be determined. We don't kickoff this Sunday--this isn't as big a deal right now as you're making it.


Well apparently you forgot to read my last sentence, so I'll just wait to reply until you actually read what I posted, and if you think Jeremy Lane is on the same level as Chykie Brown I feel so sorry for you. You have a point by saying Darryl Morris, Tharold Simon or Davon House are on par with him but LITERALLY every single other CB on that list you made would replace Chykie Brown without much competition here.

Like I said, we need a 3rd CB and that's all I'm saying.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seahawks rule, Ravens drool.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been saying since we traded for Zuttah that #3CB is our 2nd biggest question mark (after FS). But I don't know how you can talk about Shocky and especially Asa like they are known quantities. Like Ozzie said, we want to see our young guys fail on the field, if they are to fail. Shocky was getting playing time over Jimmy up until last year and others have noted Asa is still on the team after two suspensions. There's reason to think the team has some confidence in at least one of them.

I think we can go through training camp and the postseason and pick up a passable option in final cuts if no one steps up.

BTW, who the heck is Jeremy Lane?
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