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alfalcone


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Potential Free Agent Targets Reply with quote

I know the Ravens will have limited cap space this off season, but who are some guys you think they could target. I know Alex Mack has been rumored but he will likely be too pricey. Some more realistic guys in my opinion could be Lamar Houston, Golden Tate, Hakeem Nicks, Jeremy Maclin, and Linval Joseph.
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Nucky


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

We'd either have to release someone good or miss out on Monroe and pitta in order to sign any of those names.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of those guys will be in the value range that the Ravens target in free agency. They go after players older than that who come at a good price (likely because they're older). Whoever they sign it's usually somewhat of a surprise.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked to see us target Alex Mack.

The way I see it. Eugene Monroe has simply been 'solid' at LT... his pass blocking has been 'good' not great nor elite, but good. And his run blocking has been what I would classify as average... nothing more. So I say he's been solid... and maybe that's all the Ravens want, someone solid to roll with to build the line on and put around Flacco. And I can't fault them for that. However, at what point does 'solid' no longer become worth it?

Exactly how much will Monroe want in FA? When Monroe first arrived I took a look at the contracts of guys like...
D'Brickishaw Ferguson (2010)- 8 yrs, $73.6m ($9.2m per), $34.8m gtd.
Duane Brown (2012)- 7 yrs, $56.2m ($8.0m per), $22m gtd.
Andrew Whitworth (2011)- 5 yrs, $30.4m ($6.08m), $5m gtd.

So looking at these numbers again... is Monroe going to want to go for (and believe he can get) a huge payday like his fellow Virginia alumnus in Ferguson? Is he going to take a very reasonable team deal like Whitworth? Or is he going to go for something in between ala Brown?

You could also argue strongly that all of the above names were (since Whitworth now plays guard) better LT options than Monroe has looked in his play this season.

If Monroe asks for that Brown money or above and gets it elsewhere... then I think Alex Mack, an upgrade at center that would provide similar impact to Monroe, would be a great target... though it's unlikely he'd sign with a division rival.

The only thing that might help us with leverage over Monroe is the wealth of OTs in this draft class. Teams around the league might not be as willing to pay the big bucks for a solid OT knowing they're could possibly be a good 10 solid or above LT options in the draft... and thus drive down Monroe's value for our long term deal.

But yeah, outside of securing an OL player, our FA will most likely be spent on securing veteran options that were cut by their teams... or by going the Smith route and waiting until much later to sign them so they won't count against the team in the compensatory formula.
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stinky


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree wholeheartedly with Diamondbull. The issue of whether Monroe is worth the price he may be asking, say $7.5-8.5 mil., is a very interesting question. Personally, I would lean towards drafting a couple tackles, rather than paying him.

As far as "cheap" free agents are concerned, I would be curious about Andre Roberts, who I think could have good bang for the buck.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would actually be in favor of signing Mack over Monroe but I don't think it's likely at all. The team is going to give the bigger money to the guy they're more familiar with. I'm pretty much convinced that the OL configuration for next season is Monroe/Osemele/?/Yanda/? at this point.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thing this thread was brought back up... forget what I said earlier about not being likely to gain Alex Mack because of divisional ties...

The Browns just screwed themselves by letting go of Chudzinski just when he was building something there. I highly doubt Mack is going to be as team loyal now. And that should definitely aid in our chances of signing him.

It sucks that we'd be down a 4th/5th for nothing (well, if its a big enough contract we could maybe get a 3rd round comp) if we don't sign back Eugene Monroe, but I honestly wouldn't exceed $7m. You don't finish 2nd in sacks and under 3 YPC just because of scheme. And this upcoming draft is STACKED with OT talent. And with our current draft position we're primed to get a high level OT talent. Be it Cyrus Kouandjio, Greg Robinson, or Taylor Lewan... there's going to be a talented LEFT tackle option available. So if Monroe wants to take his talents to south beach (and I'd be willing to bet Miami will be looking to steal him away in FA, then so be it. And the way Oher played to finish the season, he's not worth bringing back, let him walk.

I say:
Step 1. Sign Mack- Because this draft isn't deep in center talent and there will likely be better players available in the first two days of the draft where the competent centers will go... plus Mack is a probowl talent and a veteran that knows how to make the line calls. There's no "breaking him in" He should be ready to impact our OL from day one. Center is one of the positions where a seasoned player can make the biggest impact. Mack should provide the smarts vacated by Birk, but an upgrade in physical talent.

Step 2. Draft Cyrus Kouandjio- Some of the longest arms I've ever seen. His reach as a tackle is simply ridiculous. It's so difficult to beat him to the outside because his reach is vicious. And his kickslide isn't over-aggressive, like a Michael Oher so he isn't susceptible to an inside rush by the defender (spin+juke). The way to beat CK71 is using speed rushes and that armlength (Shocked) honestly, he's "only "6'5", but he's going to measure in at the combine with arms of 36"+, meaning he's probably got the arm length of someone that's 6'10". But since he's 6'5" he's still got pretty fluid feet to read and react quickly. And he's likely to be a sub 5.20 forty guy. He has the measurements and athleticism demonstrated by Ryan Clady and Russell Okung as prospects.

Step 3. Draft Joel Bitonio or James Hurst at RT- Bitonio is athletic and would be a great fit in Juan Castillo's blocking scheme at either LG or RT (depending on what we do with KO). And Hurst could fall into the 5th round with his broken leg. He easily could have been a day two draft pick and could fall to the 5th or 6th rounds due to injuring himself in the final game of his final collegiate season, after starting since his freshman year. Tough... but Ozzie likes to pounce on falling talents. He's a technician and would be a great RT option.

Step 4. ???...

Step 5. Profit....

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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
I would actually be in favor of signing Mack over Monroe but I don't think it's likely at all. The team is going to give the bigger money to the guy they're more familiar with. I'm pretty much convinced that the OL configuration for next season is Monroe/Osemele/?/Yanda/? at this point.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't be so sure.

Had we made the playoffs and our draft position wasn't as favorable, I would subscribe to that theory. But sitting at pick 16/17 and with the ability to trade up a few spots... along with the Alabama/Maryland ties... I'm sure Ozzie is incredibly familiar with Cyrus Kouandjio and prior to FA will be pretty familiar, through research, with how teams view him going into the draft. I don't think we'll be looking to overpay Monroe considering we now have the ammo to get into the top 12 picks using our 3rd rounder. With the likely comp picks, we have the leverage and the ability to be patient with our situation. Ozzie will have a price in his head of what Monroe is worth... and while I think prior to our draft position, there may have been some compromise, we're now in a position where compromising will be a small window in between, "Ozzie's price" and "it was nice knowing you".

The price in my head, is $6.8m-$7m. If Monroe wants more, I'd pass on him and take my chances in this draft. We can probably get a rookie LT to play at a similar level for about $6.5m+ less than what it would take to resign Monroe.

Opportunity cost tells me to draft a tackle as opposed to resigning Monroe.
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Integrity


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, I'd love to sign Alex Mack and I think he should be our #1 priority free agent target. I readily admit its doubtful, but hopefully Ozzie can come through again.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
I would actually be in favor of signing Mack over Monroe but I don't think it's likely at all. The team is going to give the bigger money to the guy they're more familiar with. I'm pretty much convinced that the OL configuration for next season is Monroe/Osemele/?/Yanda/? at this point.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't be so sure.

Had we made the playoffs and our draft position wasn't as favorable, I would subscribe to that theory. But sitting at pick 16/17 and with the ability to trade up a few spots... along with the Alabama/Maryland ties... I'm sure Ozzie is incredibly familiar with Cyrus Kouandjio and prior to FA will be pretty familiar, through research, with how teams view him going into the draft. I don't think we'll be looking to overpay Monroe considering we now have the ammo to get into the top 12 picks using our 3rd rounder. With the likely comp picks, we have the leverage and the ability to be patient with our situation. Ozzie will have a price in his head of what Monroe is worth... and while I think prior to our draft position, there may have been some compromise, we're now in a position where compromising will be a small window in between, "Ozzie's price" and "it was nice knowing you".

The price in my head, is $6.8m-$7m. If Monroe wants more, I'd pass on him and take my chances in this draft. We can probably get a rookie LT to play at a similar level for about $6.5m+ less than what it would take to resign Monroe.

Opportunity cost tells me to draft a tackle as opposed to resigning Monroe.


I think you're looking too far into it. Baltimore would need two new tackles if they opted to sign Mack and I don't think they would be comfortable with a rookie and a cheap veteran (or even two rookies). I'd also expect Monroe to look a lot better next season with a full offseason with the team, and he wasn't even bad for the Ravens this season after coming in after they already started playing real games.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
I would actually be in favor of signing Mack over Monroe but I don't think it's likely at all. The team is going to give the bigger money to the guy they're more familiar with. I'm pretty much convinced that the OL configuration for next season is Monroe/Osemele/?/Yanda/? at this point.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't be so sure.

Had we made the playoffs and our draft position wasn't as favorable, I would subscribe to that theory. But sitting at pick 16/17 and with the ability to trade up a few spots... along with the Alabama/Maryland ties... I'm sure Ozzie is incredibly familiar with Cyrus Kouandjio and prior to FA will be pretty familiar, through research, with how teams view him going into the draft. I don't think we'll be looking to overpay Monroe considering we now have the ammo to get into the top 12 picks using our 3rd rounder. With the likely comp picks, we have the leverage and the ability to be patient with our situation. Ozzie will have a price in his head of what Monroe is worth... and while I think prior to our draft position, there may have been some compromise, we're now in a position where compromising will be a small window in between, "Ozzie's price" and "it was nice knowing you".

The price in my head, is $6.8m-$7m. If Monroe wants more, I'd pass on him and take my chances in this draft. We can probably get a rookie LT to play at a similar level for about $6.5m+ less than what it would take to resign Monroe.

Opportunity cost tells me to draft a tackle as opposed to resigning Monroe.


I think you're looking too far into it. Baltimore would need two new tackles if they opted to sign Mack and I don't think they would be comfortable with a rookie and a cheap veteran (or even two rookies). I'd also expect Monroe to look a lot better next season with a full offseason with the team, and he wasn't even bad for the Ravens this season after coming in after they already started playing real games.

I could be, but to be fair... anyone who watches Cyrus Kouandjio play should be looking as far into it as I am (wha-)... because simply put, he's going to be on a higher level than Monroe... and I'd suspect that he'll be at that higher level in his rookie year. Now, if Monroe were willing to flip to the right side, then sure, I'd be all for bringing him back. But no way I put an elite prospect like CK71 over on the right side.

And yeah, I've never said Monroe was bad, only that he is solid and I wouldn't be willing to overpay for him.

Here's the scenario...

Monroe = $8m
Mack = $6.5m

I may be looking to far into it, but at the same time, I'm taking Mack as the better player at the lower price. Ozzie has always been a proponent of right player, right price... Like I said, I think your point is strong and most likely, but if the above scenario takes place or even if it's only a couple hundred thousand off, why wouldn't it be in the Ravens best interest to go with the more talented center. The way I see it, we would need to add two players to the OL either way. What difference does it make if it's adding a LT and RT or adding a LT and C... especially with the deeper draft class pointing to the former scenario being more advantageous?

I'm simply saying, my above scenario isn't far-fetched. It's actually quite likely. Monroe is one of the biggest FA attractions and will have another playoff contender in the Miami Dolphins also looking to meet his asking price as well as a few other tackle needy teams.

I'm not arguing what is most likely, I'm simply arguing what I believe presents the best value.

Furthermore if the Ravens were only able to draft CK71 and unable to draft another tackle, we could kick Kelechi Osemele back out to RT where he'd upgrade our rushing attack on the right side, have Mack at center making the line calls, and kick Gradkowski over to LG where he only has to focus on blocking the scheme and not have to worry about guiding the unit. He's proven when he understands where to go he has the physical ability to be effective, such as the first Browns game I rewatched where he had about 4/5 occasions where he manhandled Phil Taylor at the LOS and pushed him back for a five yard gain. He has the quickness and strength to excel in Castillo's scheme and would have increased experience. I suspect he would look much better as an OG than he does at C. Most of his poor plays aren't where he looks physically overwhelmed, but where he blocks the wrong man. Having less responsibility could be just what the doctor ordered.

And that player evaluation is something that I also find to be a reasonable assessment that our coaching staff/front office might come to the conclusion of and march on with that OL configuration.
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RayBringsPain


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
I would actually be in favor of signing Mack over Monroe but I don't think it's likely at all. The team is going to give the bigger money to the guy they're more familiar with. I'm pretty much convinced that the OL configuration for next season is Monroe/Osemele/?/Yanda/? at this point.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't be so sure.

Had we made the playoffs and our draft position wasn't as favorable, I would subscribe to that theory. But sitting at pick 16/17 and with the ability to trade up a few spots... along with the Alabama/Maryland ties... I'm sure Ozzie is incredibly familiar with Cyrus Kouandjio and prior to FA will be pretty familiar, through research, with how teams view him going into the draft. I don't think we'll be looking to overpay Monroe considering we now have the ammo to get into the top 12 picks using our 3rd rounder. With the likely comp picks, we have the leverage and the ability to be patient with our situation. Ozzie will have a price in his head of what Monroe is worth... and while I think prior to our draft position, there may have been some compromise, we're now in a position where compromising will be a small window in between, "Ozzie's price" and "it was nice knowing you".

The price in my head, is $6.8m-$7m. If Monroe wants more, I'd pass on him and take my chances in this draft. We can probably get a rookie LT to play at a similar level for about $6.5m+ less than what it would take to resign Monroe.

Opportunity cost tells me to draft a tackle as opposed to resigning Monroe.


I think you're looking too far into it. Baltimore would need two new tackles if they opted to sign Mack and I don't think they would be comfortable with a rookie and a cheap veteran (or even two rookies). I'd also expect Monroe to look a lot better next season with a full offseason with the team, and he wasn't even bad for the Ravens this season after coming in after they already started playing real games.

I could be, but to be fair... anyone who watches Cyrus Kouandjio play should be looking as far into it as I am (wha-)... because simply put, he's going to be on a higher level than Monroe... and I'd suspect that he'll be at that higher level in his rookie year. Now, if Monroe were willing to flip to the right side, then sure, I'd be all for bringing him back. But no way I put an elite prospect like CK71 over on the right side.

And yeah, I've never said Monroe was bad, only that he is solid and I wouldn't be willing to overpay for him.

Here's the scenario...

Monroe = $8m
Mack = $6.5m

I may be looking to far into it, but at the same time, I'm taking Mack as the better player at the lower price. Ozzie has always been a proponent of right player, right price... Like I said, I think your point is strong and most likely, but if the above scenario takes place or even if it's only a couple hundred thousand off, why wouldn't it be in the Ravens best interest to go with the more talented center. The way I see it, we would need to add two players to the OL either way. What difference does it make if it's adding a LT and RT or adding a LT and C... especially with the deeper draft class pointing to the former scenario being more advantageous?

I'm simply saying, my above scenario isn't far-fetched. It's actually quite likely. Monroe is one of the biggest FA attractions and will have another playoff contender in the Miami Dolphins also looking to meet his asking price as well as a few other tackle needy teams.

I'm not arguing what is most likely, I'm simply arguing what I believe presents the best value.

Furthermore if the Ravens were only able to draft CK71 and unable to draft another tackle, we could kick Kelechi Osemele back out to RT where he'd upgrade our rushing attack on the right side, have Mack at center making the line calls, and kick Gradkowski over to LG where he only has to focus on blocking the scheme and not have to worry about guiding the unit. He's proven when he understands where to go he has the physical ability to be effective, such as the first Browns game I rewatched where he had about 4/5 occasions where he manhandled Phil Taylor at the LOS and pushed him back for a five yard gain. He has the quickness and strength to excel in Castillo's scheme and would have increased experience. I suspect he would look much better as an OG than he does at C. Most of his poor plays aren't where he looks physically overwhelmed, but where he blocks the wrong man. Having less responsibility could be just what the doctor ordered.

And that player evaluation is something that I also find to be a reasonable assessment that our coaching staff/front office might come to the conclusion of and march on with that OL configuration.


Bull, you hit it earlier. The wealth of LT's in this draft will limit Monroe's contract ceiling. I don't see anyone giving him 8 mil per season. Brandon Albert may not even see that. More like 5.5-6.5 for Monroe.

I'd still save the money and go LT at 17 if the scouts like the top 5 tackles.

Mack is going to cost at least that much, on the slim chance he gets out of Cleveland.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thought is simply that Ozzie would never have pulled the trigger on Monroe if there was the potential we didn't re-sign him long-term. That's not how Ozzie works. Now yes, there's the chance we could get a higher round comp pick for him if he walks, but that would be taken if we grabbed Mack, so essentially wasting two picks in what is a pretty critical draft for us.

In my head, the Monroe extension is already done.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
The Browns just screwed themselves by letting go of Chudzinski just when he was building something there. I highly doubt Mack is going to be as team loyal now. And that should definitely aid in our chances of signing him.


He went 5-11 and there were tweets that players hated him. We should have given him another year, but come on with that. It's going to come down to money for Mack. We have the cap space to tag him if we're not big spenders in free agency this year. We just need to resign him and TJ. I think we have like 30 mil in cap space. I also guarantee we cut guys like Greg Little and Davone Bess.

Next year we might cut Rubin and DQ because they're making 16 mil combined. DQ doesn't deserve what he's making and Rubin might be cut because of our depth (definetly not because he isn't talented).
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
The Browns just screwed themselves by letting go of Chudzinski just when he was building something there. I highly doubt Mack is going to be as team loyal now. And that should definitely aid in our chances of signing him.


He went 5-11 and there were tweets that players hated him. We should have given him another year, but come on with that. It's going to come down to money for Mack. We have the cap space to tag him if we're not big spenders in free agency this year. We just need to resign him and TJ. I think we have like 30 mil in cap space. I also guarantee we cut guys like Greg Little and Davone Bess.

Next year we might cut Rubin and DQ because they're making 16 mil combined. DQ doesn't deserve what he's making and Rubin might be cut because of our depth (definetly not because he isn't talented).

That's not the point. The point is that there was obvious improvement over his predecessor and by the end the leaders in the locker room seemed to want the coaching staff to return. Mack would have been much easier to sell on returning with a genuine staff in place looking to build towards a common goal.

But now, you're front office has proven their lack of patience and incompetence (if they weren't a fan of Chud, don't hire him.. Hire someone you are willing to stick behind in tough times. Do your due-diligence). So now Mack is in a position where this is his prime years. Money is a driving factor, but plenty of teams have money to spend... Many teams will have interest. And if a more stable situation presents itself with comparable money, why would Mack not leave? Just like coaches are hesitant to want to go to Cleveland, do you not think the players are effected? Don't you think players like Thomas and DQ were so outspoken because they see the same pattern of incompetence that has been clear to fans? That they are tied to long term contracts that bind them to that incompetence? Why would Mack knowingly choose to align himself with that situation when he could, take his talents elsewhere. There are enough quality teams with bundles of cap space and better situations... And I'm not talking about the Ravens in that cap space mention.

I'm not saying it's impossible to retain Mack, but I'd have to think the likelihood of resigning him after letting go of the current regime, in which he became an All Pro 1st teamer, will have at least lowered his chances of returning to Cleveland by (spitballing) 30% from what it would have been.
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