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Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JagsFanInNY wrote:
sadjag wrote:
Can someone please go over with me why Bortle's is overrated? I just got done watching Uconn and Baylor. I see accuracy, poise, elusiveness and great throws on the run.

His stats are inflated because of their screen game which they throw alot of. But he also makes some deep throws, you don't see alot of intermediate stuff from their offense but when they do I've seen him throw his guys open.

I know the statistics aren't great in some areas and I'm basically useless when it comes too evaluating footwork. I'm gunna go out on a limb and say this guy looks like a top 10 pick too me and second too only Teddy in this draft.

Now sometimes when I like a guy I have blinders on. So basically the purpose of this post is that I want you guys to help me by pointing out the things you don't like about him. So I can go back, watch the tape and re-evaluate, with the intention of having a better informed opinion after doing so. Also cat gifs.


I think one of the big issues with him is inconsistency. Hell, it was not really until late in the year that anyone really 'noticed' him and called him a potential high round pick. It makes you wonder exactly what that is. He also has some mechanical issues and deep ball accuracy concerns right now. I am sure there are other more technical deficiencies but in the grand scheme of things, I think he is Jake Locker-ish which means I sense very high potential, but also a pretty low floor. Not really sure that warrants top 10 status.


I noticed him and called him a high pick over a year ago...
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JagsFanInNY


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JagsFanInNY wrote:
sadjag wrote:
Can someone please go over with me why Bortle's is overrated? I just got done watching Uconn and Baylor. I see accuracy, poise, elusiveness and great throws on the run.

His stats are inflated because of their screen game which they throw alot of. But he also makes some deep throws, you don't see alot of intermediate stuff from their offense but when they do I've seen him throw his guys open.

I know the statistics aren't great in some areas and I'm basically useless when it comes too evaluating footwork. I'm gunna go out on a limb and say this guy looks like a top 10 pick too me and second too only Teddy in this draft.

Now sometimes when I like a guy I have blinders on. So basically the purpose of this post is that I want you guys to help me by pointing out the things you don't like about him. So I can go back, watch the tape and re-evaluate, with the intention of having a better informed opinion after doing so. Also cat gifs.


I think one of the big issues with him is inconsistency. Hell, it was not really until late in the year that anyone really 'noticed' him and called him a potential high round pick. It makes you wonder exactly what that is. He also has some mechanical issues and deep ball accuracy concerns right now. I am sure there are other more technical deficiencies but in the grand scheme of things, I think he is Jake Locker-ish which means I sense very high potential, but also a pretty low floor. Not really sure that warrants top 10 status.


I noticed him and called him a high pick over a year ago...
Ok.....?? It does not suddenly change the fact that his guy went relatively unnoticed until the end of his RS Junior season.
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Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JagsFanInNY wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JagsFanInNY wrote:
sadjag wrote:
Can someone please go over with me why Bortle's is overrated? I just got done watching Uconn and Baylor. I see accuracy, poise, elusiveness and great throws on the run.

His stats are inflated because of their screen game which they throw alot of. But he also makes some deep throws, you don't see alot of intermediate stuff from their offense but when they do I've seen him throw his guys open.

I know the statistics aren't great in some areas and I'm basically useless when it comes too evaluating footwork. I'm gunna go out on a limb and say this guy looks like a top 10 pick too me and second too only Teddy in this draft.

Now sometimes when I like a guy I have blinders on. So basically the purpose of this post is that I want you guys to help me by pointing out the things you don't like about him. So I can go back, watch the tape and re-evaluate, with the intention of having a better informed opinion after doing so. Also cat gifs.


I think one of the big issues with him is inconsistency. Hell, it was not really until late in the year that anyone really 'noticed' him and called him a potential high round pick. It makes you wonder exactly what that is. He also has some mechanical issues and deep ball accuracy concerns right now. I am sure there are other more technical deficiencies but in the grand scheme of things, I think he is Jake Locker-ish which means I sense very high potential, but also a pretty low floor. Not really sure that warrants top 10 status.


I noticed him and called him a high pick over a year ago...
Ok.....?? It does not suddenly change the fact that his guy went relatively unnoticed until the end of his RS Junior season.


If you think Blake Bortles is a late riser then you're the late riser.

Remember a year ago when it was Bjoern Werner vs Damontre Moore and not Dion Jordan vs Barkevious Mingo?

The media is slow.
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JagsFanInNY


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JagsFanInNY wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JagsFanInNY wrote:
sadjag wrote:
Can someone please go over with me why Bortle's is overrated? I just got done watching Uconn and Baylor. I see accuracy, poise, elusiveness and great throws on the run.

His stats are inflated because of their screen game which they throw alot of. But he also makes some deep throws, you don't see alot of intermediate stuff from their offense but when they do I've seen him throw his guys open.

I know the statistics aren't great in some areas and I'm basically useless when it comes too evaluating footwork. I'm gunna go out on a limb and say this guy looks like a top 10 pick too me and second too only Teddy in this draft.

Now sometimes when I like a guy I have blinders on. So basically the purpose of this post is that I want you guys to help me by pointing out the things you don't like about him. So I can go back, watch the tape and re-evaluate, with the intention of having a better informed opinion after doing so. Also cat gifs.


I think one of the big issues with him is inconsistency. Hell, it was not really until late in the year that anyone really 'noticed' him and called him a potential high round pick. It makes you wonder exactly what that is. He also has some mechanical issues and deep ball accuracy concerns right now. I am sure there are other more technical deficiencies but in the grand scheme of things, I think he is Jake Locker-ish which means I sense very high potential, but also a pretty low floor. Not really sure that warrants top 10 status.


I noticed him and called him a high pick over a year ago...
Ok.....?? It does not suddenly change the fact that his guy went relatively unnoticed until the end of his RS Junior season.


If you think Blake Bortles is a late riser then you're the late riser.

Remember a year ago when it was Bjoern Werner vs Damontre Moore and not Dion Jordan vs Barkevious Mingo?

The media is slow.

You really lost me on this comparison. The situation last year that better resembles this one with Bortles is DJ Hayden. It is still not a perfect comparison because of how Hayden's injury played a role in this, but it does involve a prospect who all of a sudden found himself being regarded as worthy of going mutliple rounds earlier than previously. The DE situation last year was more about jockeying for position among the top part of the position rankings. It was not like Mingo and Jordan were thought of as day 3 players. All 4 of the DEs you mention were WORST CASE 2nd round players and were guys that were on the radar screen as high round players long before the end of the final season they played collegiately.

I am not saying Bortles is bad. What I am saying is this late rise has actually vaulted him higher than he should probably be.
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Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JagsFanInNY wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JagsFanInNY wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JagsFanInNY wrote:
sadjag wrote:
Can someone please go over with me why Bortle's is overrated? I just got done watching Uconn and Baylor. I see accuracy, poise, elusiveness and great throws on the run.

His stats are inflated because of their screen game which they throw alot of. But he also makes some deep throws, you don't see alot of intermediate stuff from their offense but when they do I've seen him throw his guys open.

I know the statistics aren't great in some areas and I'm basically useless when it comes too evaluating footwork. I'm gunna go out on a limb and say this guy looks like a top 10 pick too me and second too only Teddy in this draft.

Now sometimes when I like a guy I have blinders on. So basically the purpose of this post is that I want you guys to help me by pointing out the things you don't like about him. So I can go back, watch the tape and re-evaluate, with the intention of having a better informed opinion after doing so. Also cat gifs.


I think one of the big issues with him is inconsistency. Hell, it was not really until late in the year that anyone really 'noticed' him and called him a potential high round pick. It makes you wonder exactly what that is. He also has some mechanical issues and deep ball accuracy concerns right now. I am sure there are other more technical deficiencies but in the grand scheme of things, I think he is Jake Locker-ish which means I sense very high potential, but also a pretty low floor. Not really sure that warrants top 10 status.


I noticed him and called him a high pick over a year ago...
Ok.....?? It does not suddenly change the fact that his guy went relatively unnoticed until the end of his RS Junior season.


If you think Blake Bortles is a late riser then you're the late riser.

Remember a year ago when it was Bjoern Werner vs Damontre Moore and not Dion Jordan vs Barkevious Mingo?

The media is slow.

You really lost me on this comparison. The situation last year that better resembles this one with Bortles is DJ Hayden. It is still not a perfect comparison because of how Hayden's injury played a role in this, but it does involve a prospect who all of a sudden found himself being regarded as worthy of going mutliple rounds earlier than previously. The DE situation last year was more about jockeying for position among the top part of the position rankings. It was not like Mingo and Jordan were thought of as day 3 players. All 4 of the DEs you mention were WORST CASE 2nd round players and were guys that were on the radar screen as high round players long before the end of the final season they played collegiately.

I am not saying Bortles is bad. What I am saying is this late rise has actually vaulted him higher than he should probably be.


The comparison is valid. The media was slow. There was no "jockeying". Damontre Moore didn't magically fall to the third round. I said in November 2012 that it would end up being Jordan vs Mingo instead of Werner vs Moore and wah-lah, that's what happened.

I said over a year ago that whenever Bortles enters the draft that he'd be a first round selection and a strong contender to be a top 10 selection.

It's fine to be late on a prospect. Most people were late on Bortles, and you were one of them. And that's okay. It happens. I'd be surprised if scouts and teams were like "hol' up, who be dis Centralized Flowidah kid?!" though.
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sadjag


Joined: 02 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JagsFanInNY wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JagsFanInNY wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JagsFanInNY wrote:
sadjag wrote:
Can someone please go over with me why Bortle's is overrated? I just got done watching Uconn and Baylor. I see accuracy, poise, elusiveness and great throws on the run.

His stats are inflated because of their screen game which they throw alot of. But he also makes some deep throws, you don't see alot of intermediate stuff from their offense but when they do I've seen him throw his guys open.

I know the statistics aren't great in some areas and I'm basically useless when it comes too evaluating footwork. I'm gunna go out on a limb and say this guy looks like a top 10 pick too me and second too only Teddy in this draft.

Now sometimes when I like a guy I have blinders on. So basically the purpose of this post is that I want you guys to help me by pointing out the things you don't like about him. So I can go back, watch the tape and re-evaluate, with the intention of having a better informed opinion after doing so. Also cat gifs.


I think one of the big issues with him is inconsistency. Hell, it was not really until late in the year that anyone really 'noticed' him and called him a potential high round pick. It makes you wonder exactly what that is. He also has some mechanical issues and deep ball accuracy concerns right now. I am sure there are other more technical deficiencies but in the grand scheme of things, I think he is Jake Locker-ish which means I sense very high potential, but also a pretty low floor. Not really sure that warrants top 10 status.


I noticed him and called him a high pick over a year ago...
Ok.....?? It does not suddenly change the fact that his guy went relatively unnoticed until the end of his RS Junior season.


If you think Blake Bortles is a late riser then you're the late riser.

Remember a year ago when it was Bjoern Werner vs Damontre Moore and not Dion Jordan vs Barkevious Mingo?

The media is slow.

You really lost me on this comparison. The situation last year that better resembles this one with Bortles is DJ Hayden. It is still not a perfect comparison because of how Hayden's injury played a role in this, but it does involve a prospect who all of a sudden found himself being regarded as worthy of going mutliple rounds earlier than previously. The DE situation last year was more about jockeying for position among the top part of the position rankings. It was not like Mingo and Jordan were thought of as day 3 players. All 4 of the DEs you mention were WORST CASE 2nd round players and were guys that were on the radar screen as high round players long before the end of the final season they played collegiately.

I am not saying Bortles is bad. What I am saying is this late rise has actually vaulted him higher than he should probably be.


The comparison is valid. The media was slow. There was no "jockeying". Damontre Moore didn't magically fall to the third round. I said in November 2012 that it would end up being Jordan vs Mingo instead of Werner vs Moore and wah-lah, that's what happened.

I said over a year ago that whenever Bortles enters the draft that he'd be a first round selection and a strong contender to be a top 10 selection.

It's fine to be late on a prospect. Most people were late on Bortles, and you were one of them. And that's okay. It happens. I'd be surprised if scouts and teams were like "hol' up, who be dis Centralized Flowidah kid?!" though.
Flux is right I remember the night most of us noticed Bortle's it was the Beef o Brady's bowl after his sophmore year. I was watching too see Latavius Murray and Bortles stole the show, jrry said he would be a first round pick that night.

I didn't really watch him much during the season but once the media hype picked up it was not like He came out of nowhere.
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JagsFanInNY


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My most desirable QB prospect to be taken in each round(my draft projections might differ from yours but each guy I peg as likely going in the given round):
1: Teddy Bridgewater
2: Jimmy Garoppolo
3: David Fales
4: Aaron Murray
5: Brett Smith
6: Garrett Gilbert
7: Jeff Mathews

Agree? Disagree? Your list?
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Vino


Joined: 27 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Eh...Manziel or Bridgewater, no preference between the two
2. Mettenberger
3. Murray
4. Fales
5. Smith
6. Shaw

Not sure about 7.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voilą ...
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Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was listening to a Bucky Brooks interview with AJ McCarron today, and i can definitely see why he has reportedly rubbed a lot of scouts the wrong way in interviews. Not that it's the first time i've noticed it, but it just really drove it home for me. He just doesn't seem like a "Gus guy" to me at all. Has a very "silver platters" sort of mentality that leaks out all over the place.

I'm sure there are others who will like that though. And he definitely has the experience handling media attention. I just think there's a fine line between confident and arrogant.

http://www.nfl.com/podcast/nfl-draft-tracker-podcast/1396046177000/detail

The McCarron bit starts at ~48minutes in.
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sadjag


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
Was listening to a Bucky Brooks interview with AJ McCarron today, and i can definitely see why he has reportedly rubbed a lot of scouts the wrong way in interviews. Not that it's the first time i've noticed it, but it just really drove it home for me. He just doesn't seem like a "Gus guy" to me at all. Has a very "silver platters" sort of mentality that leaks out all over the place.

I'm sure there are others who will like that though. And he definitely has the experience handling media attention. I just think there's a fine line between confident and arrogant.

http://www.nfl.com/podcast/nfl-draft-tracker-podcast/1396046177000/detail

The McCarron bit starts at ~48minutes in.
I have 8 hours a day too listen to podcasts. Bucky and Jeremiah heck the whole NFL crew are really turning me off this draft season.

Anywho McCarron is arrogant but he would hardly be the first QB too be so. He is in the buisness of selling himself right now, not sure I would expect him too act any differently.
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Vino


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
Was listening to a Bucky Brooks interview with AJ McCarron today, and i can definitely see why he has reportedly rubbed a lot of scouts the wrong way in interviews. Not that it's the first time i've noticed it, but it just really drove it home for me. He just doesn't seem like a "Gus guy" to me at all. Has a very "silver platters" sort of mentality that leaks out all over the place.

I'm sure there are others who will like that though. And he definitely has the experience handling media attention. I just think there's a fine line between confident and arrogant.

http://www.nfl.com/podcast/nfl-draft-tracker-podcast/1396046177000/detail

The McCarron bit starts at ~48minutes in.
How is he not a Gus guy? Sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder there and really wants to prove people wrong. Motivated. Loves the game. Sounds like a Gus guy to me. Rubbing scouts the wrong way because he calls them out on a lot of them not knowing how to evaluate QBs? Not a problem to me. I like him more after listening to that actually.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vino wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
Was listening to a Bucky Brooks interview with AJ McCarron today, and i can definitely see why he has reportedly rubbed a lot of scouts the wrong way in interviews. Not that it's the first time i've noticed it, but it just really drove it home for me. He just doesn't seem like a "Gus guy" to me at all. Has a very "silver platters" sort of mentality that leaks out all over the place.

I'm sure there are others who will like that though. And he definitely has the experience handling media attention. I just think there's a fine line between confident and arrogant.

http://www.nfl.com/podcast/nfl-draft-tracker-podcast/1396046177000/detail

The McCarron bit starts at ~48minutes in.
How is he not a Gus guy? Sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder there and really wants to prove people wrong. Motivated. Loves the game. Sounds like a Gus guy to me. Rubbing scouts the wrong way because he calls them out on a lot of them not knowing how to evaluate QBs? Not a problem to me. I like him more after listening to that actually.


That's interesting in that two people can listen to the same thing and arrive at pretty opposite conclusions.

For me it's just a bunch of whining and arrogance. Talking about how important it is to him to not just be one of those guys who gets a payday and is content, then flips around and says he didn't go compete at the Senior Bowl because it might cost him a bunch of money that the people of Mobile wouldn't pay him back. Sure he has a chip on his shoulder, but most of it just comes off as him being content with where he's at as a QB because he's a "winner" and that's what really counts, putting the blame on others (scouts, people commenting on him, etc) for evaluating him wrong. And seemingly not all that interested in acknowledging weaknesses or mistakes and striving to improve them (a huge tenet of Gus' philosophy).

He says a lot of nice things, as you'd expect from someone used to being in the spotlight like that, but he doesn't really seem to back it up. Just my take obviously, but i don't like it. And it doesn't really feel like the attitude jives with everything i've heard Gus talking about.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadjag wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
Was listening to a Bucky Brooks interview with AJ McCarron today, and i can definitely see why he has reportedly rubbed a lot of scouts the wrong way in interviews. Not that it's the first time i've noticed it, but it just really drove it home for me. He just doesn't seem like a "Gus guy" to me at all. Has a very "silver platters" sort of mentality that leaks out all over the place.

I'm sure there are others who will like that though. And he definitely has the experience handling media attention. I just think there's a fine line between confident and arrogant.

http://www.nfl.com/podcast/nfl-draft-tracker-podcast/1396046177000/detail

The McCarron bit starts at ~48minutes in.
I have 8 hours a day too listen to podcasts. Bucky and Jeremiah heck the whole NFL crew are really turning me off this draft season.

Anywho McCarron is arrogant but he would hardly be the first QB too be so. He is in the buisness of selling himself right now, not sure I would expect him too act any differently.


Yeah. For the most part it just falls somewhere between fluff and nonsense, but the interviews are still sometimes interesting. It's as much insight as most of us are going to get into these prospects without direct access to interviewing them ourselves. Laughing

I just don't like to see that kind of arrogance in a QB. There's confidence, even cockiness that a lot of the greats have...but McCarron strikes me as sliding over to the arrogant side of the line with a lot of the way he carries himself. Which i don't like.
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Vino


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
Vino wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
Was listening to a Bucky Brooks interview with AJ McCarron today, and i can definitely see why he has reportedly rubbed a lot of scouts the wrong way in interviews. Not that it's the first time i've noticed it, but it just really drove it home for me. He just doesn't seem like a "Gus guy" to me at all. Has a very "silver platters" sort of mentality that leaks out all over the place.

I'm sure there are others who will like that though. And he definitely has the experience handling media attention. I just think there's a fine line between confident and arrogant.

http://www.nfl.com/podcast/nfl-draft-tracker-podcast/1396046177000/detail

The McCarron bit starts at ~48minutes in.
How is he not a Gus guy? Sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder there and really wants to prove people wrong. Motivated. Loves the game. Sounds like a Gus guy to me. Rubbing scouts the wrong way because he calls them out on a lot of them not knowing how to evaluate QBs? Not a problem to me. I like him more after listening to that actually.


That's interesting in that two people can listen to the same thing and arrive at pretty opposite conclusions.

For me it's just a bunch of whining and arrogance. Talking about how important it is to him to not just be one of those guys who gets a payday and is content, then flips around and says he didn't go compete at the Senior Bowl because it might cost him a bunch of money that the people of Mobile wouldn't pay him back. Sure he has a chip on his shoulder, but most of it just comes off as him being content with where he's at as a QB because he's a "winner" and that's what really counts, putting the blame on others (scouts, people commenting on him, etc) for evaluating him wrong. And seemingly not all that interested in acknowledging weaknesses or mistakes and striving to improve them (a huge tenet of Gus' philosophy).

He says a lot of nice things, as you'd expect from someone used to being in the spotlight like that, but he doesn't really seem to back it up. Just my take obviously, but i don't like it. And it doesn't really feel like the attitude jives with everything i've heard Gus talking about.
It didn't sound to me like he was flatout denying he had things he could improve on, it seemed more like he was responding to the criticism that being a game manager is somehow a negative. He sees his style of play as old fashioned and what wins football games, even if others think it's unspectacular/boring. I just see it as him defending himself and the type of player he is. He can't change the way he plays, all he can do is justify it and explain why it can win football games.
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