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GM Rick Spielman - his good moves and his dumb ones
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
Krauser wrote:


How is the Freeman story relevant to the current discussion?



It's relevant in the sense that it's simply not true that Rick Spielman never feuded with his coaches over the QB situation.

I don't doubt that he's playing nice with Mike Zimmer and Norv Turner but it's still early. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out down the road.

reading you two go back and forth with each other makes this pretty obvious to me:

Arrow Krauser's comment was in the context of Spielman not forcing a QB on his current coaching staff. even though he did not use the word "current" specifically, it was obvious his intent was there.

Arrow milanb's comment expands it to include Frazier and Josh Freeman. while milanb may be accurate in that context, it wasn't the one being discussed initially by Krauser and what milanb replied to.
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xmichaelp


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robb_K wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
could it be that Turner and Zimmer preferred Bridgewater (from their comments it appears likely), and Spielman preferred Manziel?

glad that potential schism was avoided, if it was there.


Or maybe everyone wanted Bridgewater except for ownership? Could Wilf have pushed for Manziel, he doesn't strike me as that type of owner that would intervene in personnel decisions.


I think The Vikings were unanimous in wanting Bridgewater all along. Otherwise they'd have given up whatever it would have taken to have made the trade to get ahead of Cleveland's moving up. I'm sure that the owner's of Pick #22 would have offered it to The Vikings, as well, knowing they also wanted to move back into the 1st to get a QB. I think the Vikings KNEW that Cleveland didn't want Bridgewater, but wanted Manziel, and knew they didn't have to beat out Cleveland in moving back into the 1st, to be assured of getting Bridgewater. They knew they only had to obtain a pick earlier than Houston's.


I think they had them about even and didn't really care which one it is, but they put Manziel slightly ahead of Teddy just to decide who to pick if they're both there. I don't think anyone in the Vikings is upset they had to "settle" for Teddy or anything like that. They're happy either way.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
Krauser wrote:


How is the Freeman story relevant to the current discussion?



It's relevant in the sense that it's simply not true that Rick Spielman never feuded with his coaches over the QB situation.

I don't doubt that he's playing nice with Mike Zimmer and Norv Turner but it's still early. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out down the road.


No one said he never feuded with Frazier, they were obviously working at cross purposes last year.

But then Frazier wasn't his coach. That makes a difference. They didn't see eye to eye (on the Ponder situation as much as anything), and the team was losing some winnable games, but he couldn't fire Frazier (and never chose to work with him in the first place).

Now this year, the response to the coaching hires was unanimously positive across the league, and Spielman's getting a very good reputation based on the last few drafts. Yet you seem to imply that he's just biding his time before undermining Zimmer and Turner. Why would he do that? He just hired them, he spent several days interviewing Zimmer, they seem to be getting along great.

That comment seems a little paranoid.

I asked you earlier if you were feeling more optimistic about the direction the team is going in. Any thoughts there? Are they a hopeless case as long as Spielman's in charge?
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milanb


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:


Arrow Krauser's comment was in the context of Spielman not forcing a QB on his current coaching staff. even though he did not use the word "current" specifically, it was obvious his intent was there.

Arrow milanb's comment expands it to include Frazier and Josh Freeman. while milanb may be accurate in that context, it wasn't the one being discussed initially by Krauser and what milanb replied to.


I really do not want to have a flame war over this, but...

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of unknowns about the new regime moving forward, including what the nature of the relationship between the coaches, the ownership and the front office is going to be like.
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fishtanked


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
vike daddy wrote:


Arrow Krauser's comment was in the context of Spielman not forcing a QB on his current coaching staff. even though he did not use the word "current" specifically, it was obvious his intent was there.

Arrow milanb's comment expands it to include Frazier and Josh Freeman. while milanb may be accurate in that context, it wasn't the one being discussed initially by Krauser and what milanb replied to.


I really do not want to have a flame war over this, but...

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of unknowns about the new regime moving forward, including what the nature of the relationship between the coaches, the ownership and the front office is going to be like.


So how about we assume things are going to work out? Sounds like a more positive way to proceed, no?
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xmichaelp


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love seeing it in the war room. Zygi looked happy for the trade up and I love Barr's enthusiasm.

http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Inside-The-Vikings-War-Room-On-Draft-Night/e21e3a7e-1ccd-43ea-9ee2-950be706f054
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
I really do not want to have a flame war over this, but...

no flame war, we're just discussing the matter. everyone's being respectful, and recognizes differences of opinion exist. no big whoop.


milanb wrote:
The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of unknowns about the new regime moving forward, including what the nature of the relationship between the coaches, the ownership and the front office is going to be like.

ok, i'll buy that. if we want to discuss facts, we really have none, when you think of it. even direct quotes we have from Spielman et al could be less than factual. so there's that.

but we have seen, in Zimmer's short stint with the team so far, he and Spielman spending a large amount of time together, discussing their vision for the team, and apparently collaborating well to bring that vision to fruition. so we can take what we know of that and make the assumption they work together better and more professionally than Spielman and Frazier did, since we weren't being fed news tidbits to that end then.

will that last in to the years? i believe that's a point you're making now. predicting the future is impossible for any of us, but we can recognize the coaching staff and management do appear to be working together better than the Frazier-Spielman work team.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishtanked wrote:
milanb wrote:
vike daddy wrote:


Arrow Krauser's comment was in the context of Spielman not forcing a QB on his current coaching staff. even though he did not use the word "current" specifically, it was obvious his intent was there.

Arrow milanb's comment expands it to include Frazier and Josh Freeman. while milanb may be accurate in that context, it wasn't the one being discussed initially by Krauser and what milanb replied to.


I really do not want to have a flame war over this, but...

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of unknowns about the new regime moving forward, including what the nature of the relationship between the coaches, the ownership and the front office is going to be like.


So how about we assume things are going to work out? Sounds like a more positive way to proceed, no?


Hey, I'm absolutely pulling for everyone to get along.

It's just that, as the saying goes, the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. We'll see what happens.

Neutral
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fishtanked


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
fishtanked wrote:
milanb wrote:
vike daddy wrote:


Arrow Krauser's comment was in the context of Spielman not forcing a QB on his current coaching staff. even though he did not use the word "current" specifically, it was obvious his intent was there.

Arrow milanb's comment expands it to include Frazier and Josh Freeman. while milanb may be accurate in that context, it wasn't the one being discussed initially by Krauser and what milanb replied to.


I really do not want to have a flame war over this, but...

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of unknowns about the new regime moving forward, including what the nature of the relationship between the coaches, the ownership and the front office is going to be like.


So how about we assume things are going to work out? Sounds like a more positive way to proceed, no?


Hey, I'm absolutely pulling for everyone to get along.

It's just that, as the saying goes, the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. We'll see what happens.

Neutral


You just can't help yourself. You say something positive and then follow it up with doom and gloom. Lol. This is realistically the first time in Speilmans career where he has "his team" on the field. In the past he has been sharing authority and dealing with the fallout of previous regimes. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be judged on his bad moves in the past but if we look at what he has done since taking over as GM it's hard not to say that he is one of the best GM's in the business today. Forget the past. He has clearly learnt from his mistakes so why keep dragging them out of the closet? It's like when your wife keeps bringing up something stupid you did 10 years ago in an argument. I wouldn't trade our past three off seasons for anybodies. And that is all Speilmans doing. He has to get credit for that, doesn't he?
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
It's just that, as the saying goes, the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. We'll see what happens.

Neutral

gosh, i don't know if that's true.

look at Jared Allen.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
milanb wrote:
It's just that, as the saying goes, the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. We'll see what happens.

Neutral

gosh, i don't know if that's true.

look at Jared Allen.


Look at Percy Harvin.

I do not mean to suggest even for a second that people can't change. It's just that Spielman has clashed with pretty well every head coach he's ever been asked to work with. Previously, Spielman had been fortunate in that Brad Childress and Nick Saban were not exactly renowned for their endearing personalities. But his failure to get along with Leslie Frazier should set off a lot of alarm bells.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
his failure to get along with Leslie Frazier should set off a lot of alarm bells.

why? he wanted a better coach.

what is wrong with that?
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SodakViking


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
milanb wrote:
his failure to get along with Leslie Frazier should set off a lot of alarm bells.

why? he wanted a better coach.

what is wrong with that?


I don't know if I would get along with Frazier, either. He was so stubborn.

Childress cut Moss without even talking to Wilf or Spielman. Rick is suppose to get along with him, too?
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/13/nfl-draft-johnny-manziel-teddy-bridgewater/3/

Peter King fills in the picture around pick #22 and the Vikings QB search. Relevant to our discussion:

-- Vikes finished 3rd in the bidding war for #22 (behind another team that has a QB), were apparently asked to include the 2015 1st and refused. I wonder if including both 3rd rounders would've been enough, weird that Philly were so attached to staying in the 20s given that the guy they took, Marcus Smith, could very well have been available at #40. Also wonder if the other team with a QB is one with an older QB, like NO or NE, who might have been inclined to take one for the future.

-- Zimmer wasn't sure he could trust Manziel, but loved his confidence. This fits what I was saying -- Manziel was a great match for Zim, salty old guy that he is. From this report at least, seems Zimmer if anyone was the one who favored Manziel (and Turner wanted Bridgewater? -- again, think this is much more likely a 1A / 1B situation than any strong divide, which is supported by the fact that they didn't up the ante for the trade, being satisfied to wait and take whichever QB Cleveland didn't,)

-- Spielman was skeptical of all the QBs, liked Manziel (inter alia?) but not at the cost of #8 or trading the farm to move up. That seems like a reasonable position to me.

This report runs directly against the idea that Spielman almost ruined everything for the coaches by saddling them with Manziel, supposedly the guy they didn't want, only to be saved by circumstances/Cleveland.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good article. good info.
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