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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer my own question. If we can't go WR, if most prefer to go BPA and take an elite player. Late in the draft I can only speculate a few options that might include: Darqueze Dennard, Ryan Shazier, or CJ Mosley. And if Louis Nix falls due to injury concerns, then him to.

I've considered Rashede Hageman, but I keep coming back to his lack of pass rushing moves. He's athletic and strong and that's good. But he just reminds me of Devon Still from Penn State. When I see Hageman, I just don't see an explosive athlete that will be able to rush the passer with moves or leverage. I see mostly bull rushes and some swim moves. He just doesn't do it for me like when I watched tape of say... Richardson or Cameron Jordan.

At TE, ASJ is a huge guy and even has some quality movement stills for that size, but honestly, he goes down too easy on first contact IMO. I don't see him break enough tackles like you'd expect him too. I don't see enough power in his game. But maybe that's just me. And his blocking is above average to good, but its not on the level of a CJ Fiedorowiz. I just feel like I should be coming away more impressed with ASJ than I am. Though he does appear to have elite hands so there's that.[/b]
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gooselovechild


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
I've said it before but it would be hard for the Ravens to take a position I wouldn't like in the first round this year. There are quite a few areas of need with what looks like a pretty good draft at multiple positions. Here's a list off the top of my head:

CB: With Graham being a free agent they're going to need a new third CB unless he's re-signed, which I doubt. I'm not comfortable with Chykie Brown or Asa Jackson taking over that big of a role. But looking past that Jimmy Smith is a free agent after next season too. With the way he's playing now I'd expect him to get a fairly good deal on the open market. I doubt Baltimore would keep two CBs with big deals and I'm expecting one of Smith or Webb not to be with the team for the 2015-16 season. They'll need another good CB and it seems to take a lot of guys a little bit of time to acclimate to the NFL. A prospect that I'm of course going to suggest is Darqueze Dennard. He's probably not going to test out as well athletically as other players so there's a better chance of him being there later in the first round. This guy is a beast.

DE: I don't think Baltimore has a replacement for Jones at DE on the roster. Canty is also getting older and hasn't been the picture of health over his career. Like I said in the other thread I want another big rangy DE that can make plays. Enter RaShede Hageman. I really like what I've seen of him as a prospect. The big production numbers aren't there but I'd be pretty surprised if he wasn't a first round pick.

I think FS, RT, C, TE, and ILB (sort of) are needs too but I'm not expecting the team to address them in the first round.


Wasn't there talk at some point about Webb transitioning to S? I believe he played some FS in college, and if that happened, we could draft Dennard, Justin Gilbert or EJ Gaines to pair with Smith and have Webb and Elam on the back end. That would be a pretty tough secondary to throw on in a passing league.

I also like Eric Ebron a lot as a TE, Antonio Richardson and Cedric Ogbuehi as OT options, and A.J. Johnson as a sleeper pick in the 1st at ILB.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
Wasn't there talk at some point about Webb transitioning to S? I believe he played some FS in college, and if that happened, we could draft Dennard, Justin Gilbert or EJ Gaines to pair with Smith and have Webb and Elam on the back end. That would be a pretty tough secondary to throw on in a passing league.

I also like Eric Ebron a lot as a TE, Antonio Richardson and Cedric Ogbuehi as OT options, and A.J. Johnson as a sleeper pick in the 1st at ILB.


Only fan speculation. I still don't see it happening and in that situation Baltimore would need two CBs instead of a FS and a CB as it is currently. A good pass-defending secondary goes 3 deep at CB these days.
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gooselovechild


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
Wasn't there talk at some point about Webb transitioning to S? I believe he played some FS in college, and if that happened, we could draft Dennard, Justin Gilbert or EJ Gaines to pair with Smith and have Webb and Elam on the back end. That would be a pretty tough secondary to throw on in a passing league.

I also like Eric Ebron a lot as a TE, Antonio Richardson and Cedric Ogbuehi as OT options, and A.J. Johnson as a sleeper pick in the 1st at ILB.


Only fan speculation. I still don't see it happening and in that situation Baltimore would need two CBs instead of a FS and a CB as it is currently. A good pass-defending secondary goes 3 deep at CB these days.


Just as a "what if" though, If Webb gets moved to FS and we draft Dennard say, we could still use Jackson or Brown as the 3rd CB. We'd have hypothetically solidified FS without a significant decline at CB in base sets, and actually have 4 CBs on the field in nickel and possibly 5 in the dime.

I'll grant you, we wouldn't have a lot of size outside Smith/Dennard, and the premise is based on Webb making a smooth transition to FS, but I don't think it creates different needs at all, and actually would fill a hole in the secondary.

That said, it probably isn't going to happen, but its an interesting idea nonetheless.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
Wasn't there talk at some point about Webb transitioning to S? I believe he played some FS in college, and if that happened, we could draft Dennard, Justin Gilbert or EJ Gaines to pair with Smith and have Webb and Elam on the back end. That would be a pretty tough secondary to throw on in a passing league.

I also like Eric Ebron a lot as a TE, Antonio Richardson and Cedric Ogbuehi as OT options, and A.J. Johnson as a sleeper pick in the 1st at ILB.


Only fan speculation. I still don't see it happening and in that situation Baltimore would need two CBs instead of a FS and a CB as it is currently. A good pass-defending secondary goes 3 deep at CB these days.


Just as a "what if" though, If Webb gets moved to FS and we draft Dennard say, we could still use Jackson or Brown as the 3rd CB. We'd have hypothetically solidified FS without a significant decline at CB in base sets, and actually have 4 CBs on the field in nickel and possibly 5 in the dime.

I'll grant you, we wouldn't have a lot of size outside Smith/Dennard, and the premise is based on Webb making a smooth transition to FS, but I don't think it creates different needs at all, and actually would fill a hole in the secondary.

That said, it probably isn't going to happen, but its an interesting idea nonetheless.


Why wouldn't we just keep Webb at CB and go 3 deep with Webb/Jimmy/New guy and find a FS elsewhere? Or keep Elam there and find a SS?

I could potentially see Webb moving to FS later in his career a la Charles Woodson but moving him now would just taking a strength and making it a weakness. No reason to move a top 10 CB to S just to allow a 4th string CB the ability to start.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Webb at FS would be an option that the Ravens might explore, if their roster makeup supported it.

If, for example, no Safeties they like fell to them in the draft, but a starting calibre CB did, then why not make sure your best players are all on the field together? Yes, they often play Nickel, so there's always going to be a need for more than two good CBs, but they'll still have Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie manages to bring in more players who make surprise impact, like Corey Graham last year.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
I think Webb at FS would be an option that the Ravens might explore, if their roster makeup supported it.

If, for example, no Safeties they like fell to them in the draft, but a starting calibre CB did, then why not make sure your best players are all on the field together? Yes, they often play Nickel, so there's always going to be a need for more than two good CBs, but they'll still have Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie manages to bring in more players who make surprise impact, like Corey Graham last year.


He could do the same at FS, and then there's only a need to draft one CB. I like that route better.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of the FS talk, I think it would be a good idea to move Webb to FS in base formations if Dennard could transition quickly. And when we go into nickel sets, Webb could drop down to NCB and then utilize Anthony Levine as the FS.

Just because Webb moves to FS doesn't mean we would need to draft two corners.

That said, the above would probably require a creative defensive coordinator to best organize the defensive pieces... And that's not Pees strength, assuming he returns.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't be the only one who doesn't like the idea of putting Webb at FS, right? I mean what other team has a borderline-elite CB also playing FS?!
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Mancunian Raven wrote:
I think Webb at FS would be an option that the Ravens might explore, if their roster makeup supported it.

If, for example, no Safeties they like fell to them in the draft, but a starting calibre CB did, then why not make sure your best players are all on the field together? Yes, they often play Nickel, so there's always going to be a need for more than two good CBs, but they'll still have Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie manages to bring in more players who make surprise impact, like Corey Graham last year.


He could do the same at FS, and then there's only a need to draft one CB. I like that route better.


Exactly. You bring in a stop-gap FS, use your 3 top CBs instead of moving one of them to a position they haven't played in 5 years and then look for a long-term FS for the future next year.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
Mancunian Raven wrote:
I think Webb at FS would be an option that the Ravens might explore, if their roster makeup supported it.

If, for example, no Safeties they like fell to them in the draft, but a starting calibre CB did, then why not make sure your best players are all on the field together? Yes, they often play Nickel, so there's always going to be a need for more than two good CBs, but they'll still have Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie manages to bring in more players who make surprise impact, like Corey Graham last year.


He could do the same at FS, and then there's only a need to draft one CB. I like that route better.


Exactly. You bring in a stop-gap FS, use your 3 top CBs instead of moving one of them to a position they haven't played in 5 years and then look for a long-term FS for the future next year.

If Dennard comes in and proves to be a Revis type of lockdown level corner... and Smith continues to look as good as he does at corner... why would the Ravens not want to get their best playmakers on the field?

Why trot out a stop gap FS option and keep a talented option like Dennard sitting on the bench, when you could successfully utilize all of them at once?

Have Webb convert to nickel in nickel formation (still lining him up at corner nearly half the time) and then sub in your backup safety.

Now I'm not proposing that we SHOULD be looking to move Webb to FS, but if a high level corner prospect falls that looks best on the outside, why not move Webb to FS? Utilize Webb in the same way, Rob Ryan has used Kenny Vaccaro, except in more of a FS role and not a SS role. It would allow Webb to guide the DB unit with his experience to relay coverages. That could really help Elam to increase his playmaking ability as well.

I think the idea should at least be considered. Especially when it could leave Webb to seeing less high level COD impact on his knees that has proven to have him tear both of his ACL during non-contact situations. I think putting him at FS could help to protect him as much as allow us to get our best defensive talent on the field at the same time (if that's how it plays out).
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BareYourTeeth


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear what you're saying DB. Good stuff. There's some good FS options in the third and fourth rounds of this years draft such as Tre Boston, Kenny Ladler, and Calvin Pryor. I think there's a couple of guys you like, and should be available there, that I didn't mention as well. And we all know how much Harbaugh likes to ease is non first and second round rookies into the starting lineup so if Webb's starting at FS and moving to nickel in nickel formations that could allow a rookie to come on to the field in those situations instead of never getting on the field or being thrust into the fire.

I'd still like to see Diggz get re-signed though so we'll see.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BareYourTeeth wrote:
I hear what you're saying DB. Good stuff. There's some good FS options in the third and fourth rounds of this years draft such as Tre Boston, Kenny Ladler, and Calvin Pryor. I think there's a couple of guys you like, and should be available there, that I didn't mention as well. And we all know how much Harbaugh likes to ease is non first and second round rookies into the starting lineup so if Webb's starting at FS and moving to nickel in nickel formations that could allow a rookie to come on to the field in those situations instead of never getting on the field or being thrust into the fire.

I'd still like to see Diggz get re-signed though so we'll see.

Well... if Calvin Pryor declares, then disregard everything I said above. I like both Deone Bucannon and Calvin Pryor as safeties, particularly opposite of Elam... with their size, ball skills, and tackling ability. Would love to draft Pryor in the 3rd round. Smile
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
Mancunian Raven wrote:
I think Webb at FS would be an option that the Ravens might explore, if their roster makeup supported it.

If, for example, no Safeties they like fell to them in the draft, but a starting calibre CB did, then why not make sure your best players are all on the field together? Yes, they often play Nickel, so there's always going to be a need for more than two good CBs, but they'll still have Chykie Brown and Asa Jackson, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie manages to bring in more players who make surprise impact, like Corey Graham last year.


He could do the same at FS, and then there's only a need to draft one CB. I like that route better.


Exactly. You bring in a stop-gap FS, use your 3 top CBs instead of moving one of them to a position they haven't played in 5 years and then look for a long-term FS for the future next year.

If Dennard comes in and proves to be a Revis type of lockdown level corner... and Smith continues to look as good as he does at corner... why would the Ravens not want to get their best playmakers on the field?

Why trot out a stop gap FS option and keep a talented option like Dennard sitting on the bench, when you could successfully utilize all of them at once?

Have Webb convert to nickel in nickel formation (still lining him up at corner nearly half the time) and then sub in your backup safety.

Now I'm not proposing that we SHOULD be looking to move Webb to FS, but if a high level corner prospect falls that looks best on the outside, why not move Webb to FS? Utilize Webb in the same way, Rob Ryan has used Kenny Vaccaro, except in more of a FS role and not a SS role. It would allow Webb to guide the DB unit with his experience to relay coverages. That could really help Elam to increase his playmaking ability as well.

I think the idea should at least be considered. Especially when it could leave Webb to seeing less high level COD impact on his knees that has proven to have him tear both of his ACL during non-contact situations. I think putting him at FS could help to protect him as much as allow us to get our best defensive talent on the field at the same time (if that's how it plays out).


I'd consider it after seeing that rookie playing at a lockdown type level, but certainly not just due to drafting them. If we were to draft a guy like Dennard, bring in a stop gap FS and go into the season with Webb/Smith as starters and rookie as nickel. If he proves he's capable of a starting job the following year, then entertain the idea of Webb moving. I just don't think it's smart to take a top 10 CB and move him to FS unless we're filling his place with another top 10 CB.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
If Dennard comes in and proves to be a Revis type of lockdown level corner... and Smith continues to look as good as he does at corner... why would the Ravens not want to get their best playmakers on the field?


You have to consider how unlikely it is that Dennard or any other high round pick at CB comes in and immediately plays at that kind of level. Revis himself wasn't that great for a couple of seasons. It seems to take CBs a couple of seasons to really acclimate to the NFL game and covering NFL receivers. My reasoning for wanting a CB high hasn't changed much since I learned that Baltimore had an option for Smith's contract because even though that's an extra year by the time whoever the Ravens might take at CB they should be just about ready to play good football. I still don't believe that Baltimore will keep two high-priced DBs and one of Smith or Webb will be gone, leaving an open spot for whoever.
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