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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conquest8089 wrote:
Austin's problem working with Bradford is two fold. Tavon is quite small & Bradford isn't the most accurate intermediate QB. Tavon has yet to develop the route running skills to stretch vertically. It was a really poor fit prior to the injury. I'd be hesitant to go for a Big Bodied WR in the draft b/c the lag time it takes to get that guy production- I'm talking Mike Evans. And with Sammy Watkins, I fear he & Tavon could be a major issue.

You need a Veteran Presence in the receiving corps. Look at what Vincent Jackson did/does down in Tampa Bay. Find a proven commodity, a true professional. So I'm already saying no to Kenny Britt.

In Free Agency, I'd make a huge play for Anquan Boldin on a deal to work the slot. Also look into Maclin's Health. Don't chase Decker or Nicks.


Anquan Boldin is the only guy out there that I'd pursue. We agree on that. Decker and Nicks aren't worth it for different reasons and I'm not a huge fan of Maclin.

As far as Tavon, his route running skills aren't an issue and he's more advance than people know at stretching the field vertically. The biggest thing holding him back is size there. But I disagree, I think him and Bradford will do fine once the chemistry is down. It takes time to adjust to a WR of Tavon's size and speed.
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FRO


Joined: 02 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Conquest8089 wrote:
Austin's problem working with Bradford is two fold. Tavon is quite small & Bradford isn't the most accurate intermediate QB. Tavon has yet to develop the route running skills to stretch vertically. It was a really poor fit prior to the injury. I'd be hesitant to go for a Big Bodied WR in the draft b/c the lag time it takes to get that guy production- I'm talking Mike Evans. And with Sammy Watkins, I fear he & Tavon could be a major issue.

You need a Veteran Presence in the receiving corps. Look at what Vincent Jackson did/does down in Tampa Bay. Find a proven commodity, a true professional. So I'm already saying no to Kenny Britt.

In Free Agency, I'd make a huge play for Anquan Boldin on a deal to work the slot. Also look into Maclin's Health. Don't chase Decker or Nicks.


Anquan Boldin is the only guy out there that I'd pursue. We agree on that. Decker and Nicks aren't worth it for different reasons and I'm not a huge fan of Maclin.

As far as Tavon, his route running skills aren't an issue and he's more advance than people know at stretching the field vertically. The biggest thing holding him back is size there. But I disagree, I think him and Bradford will do fine once the chemistry is down. It takes time to adjust to a WR of Tavon's size and speed.

I don't recall Bradford misfiring to Austin at all. He probably did a pass or two.

If Tavon spends this offseason watching tape of Welker and Amendola and can get his routes to be as sharp as theirs, look out.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FRO wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
Conquest8089 wrote:
Austin's problem working with Bradford is two fold. Tavon is quite small & Bradford isn't the most accurate intermediate QB. Tavon has yet to develop the route running skills to stretch vertically. It was a really poor fit prior to the injury. I'd be hesitant to go for a Big Bodied WR in the draft b/c the lag time it takes to get that guy production- I'm talking Mike Evans. And with Sammy Watkins, I fear he & Tavon could be a major issue.

You need a Veteran Presence in the receiving corps. Look at what Vincent Jackson did/does down in Tampa Bay. Find a proven commodity, a true professional. So I'm already saying no to Kenny Britt.

In Free Agency, I'd make a huge play for Anquan Boldin on a deal to work the slot. Also look into Maclin's Health. Don't chase Decker or Nicks.


Anquan Boldin is the only guy out there that I'd pursue. We agree on that. Decker and Nicks aren't worth it for different reasons and I'm not a huge fan of Maclin.

As far as Tavon, his route running skills aren't an issue and he's more advance than people know at stretching the field vertically. The biggest thing holding him back is size there. But I disagree, I think him and Bradford will do fine once the chemistry is down. It takes time to adjust to a WR of Tavon's size and speed.

I don't recall Bradford misfiring to Austin at all. He probably did a pass or two.

If Tavon spends this offseason watching tape of Welker and Amendola and can get his routes to be as sharp as theirs, look out.


He did early on but they seemed to be gelling when he went down. He hit him in stride on that 63 yarder.
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FRO


Joined: 02 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah they didn't hit on the deep stuff early on. I was recalling the intermediate stuff the poster was referring to.
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StLunatic88


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
FRO wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
Conquest8089 wrote:
Austin's problem working with Bradford is two fold. Tavon is quite small & Bradford isn't the most accurate intermediate QB. Tavon has yet to develop the route running skills to stretch vertically. It was a really poor fit prior to the injury. I'd be hesitant to go for a Big Bodied WR in the draft b/c the lag time it takes to get that guy production- I'm talking Mike Evans. And with Sammy Watkins, I fear he & Tavon could be a major issue.

You need a Veteran Presence in the receiving corps. Look at what Vincent Jackson did/does down in Tampa Bay. Find a proven commodity, a true professional. So I'm already saying no to Kenny Britt.

In Free Agency, I'd make a huge play for Anquan Boldin on a deal to work the slot. Also look into Maclin's Health. Don't chase Decker or Nicks.


Anquan Boldin is the only guy out there that I'd pursue. We agree on that. Decker and Nicks aren't worth it for different reasons and I'm not a huge fan of Maclin.

As far as Tavon, his route running skills aren't an issue and he's more advance than people know at stretching the field vertically. The biggest thing holding him back is size there. But I disagree, I think him and Bradford will do fine once the chemistry is down. It takes time to adjust to a WR of Tavon's size and speed.

I don't recall Bradford misfiring to Austin at all. He probably did a pass or two.

If Tavon spends this offseason watching tape of Welker and Amendola and can get his routes to be as sharp as theirs, look out.


He did early on but they seemed to be gelling when he went down. He hit him in stride on that 63 yarder.
And most of those over throws were on the Flair type routes to the sideline down in the redzone. Where a QB is instinctively throwing the ball higher and more toward the boundary as to not let defenders have a chance. Tavon doesnt have as much of an advantage in those routes, which is also why its on the OC (Schotty) to keep him off of those routes.

Im never sure where the idea that Sam inst accurate comes from. For a guy who's never had a reliable receiver, Id say hes been pretty good, and I never have once watched a throw and thought "where the Heck was that going?"
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kgarrett12486


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does everyone see in Mike Evans that they want to spend a top ten pick on the guy? I just don't see it, I'm not even convinced he stays at WR at the next level. He's in the 15-32 range IMO..

I'd rather target Jordan Matthews in the last 1st if WR is the route we want to go...
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Deemo55


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holt_bruce81 wrote:
Deemo55 wrote:
holt_bruce81 wrote:
If you want a #1 WR, take Mike Evans. But I don't think the Rams take a WR in the first round again this year. I actually like our WR core.

I wouldn't consider Torrey Smith, Antonio Brown, TY Hilton, Keenan Allen, or Desean Jackson #1 Receivers, but those franchises are doing ok.

Were not going to get a Calvin/AJ Green type. It's just not going to happen.


Keenan Allen is a number 1 guy and will most likely find himself in a pro bowl sooner than later. All the guys you listed have pro bowl, go to type talent. The Rams don't have anyone like that and they need it whether it be a first, second or third rounder.



So after 12 weeks of his rookie season and after trading up to 8th overall to select him, you are already ready to classify Tavon Austin as not the go-to pro bowl type guy the Rams need? Typical.


Seems like you were ready to do the same with Keenan Allen.

I never saw Tavon as a go to guy and probably never will. He can make the pro bowl at some point and be a good slot receiver but there are some things you just can't fix - his size and hard hands. And my fault for not elaborating on what I mean by go to. I'm talking about a guy who can consistently win 1 on 1 on the outside and make tough catches in key situations.

The Rams don't need or will never get a Megatron or AJ Green but they can get a Crabtree, R Wayne, R White, V Jackson, J Nelson, J Gordon, D Thomas, D Bowe, Nicks, Cruz, Jeffery, Marshall etc etc type. Bradford simply isn't good enough to play with mediocre WRs and he's proved that. Watkins/Lee/Evans, even Adams and Robinson could play that role in STL and all are easily obtainable in the upcoming draft. A combination of one of those guys with Givens/Bailey on the other side, Austin in the slot and throw in Cook now you're talking about an above average, potentially in time dominant WR group. I'm sorry but Quick is just not a starter.


Bradford did look pretty good before he went down but there is no denying how unidimidating the Rams WR core is.
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SAK11


Joined: 22 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kgarrett12486 wrote:
What does everyone see in Mike Evans that they want to spend a top ten pick on the guy? I just don't see it, I'm not even convinced he stays at WR at the next level. He's in the 15-32 range IMO..

I'd rather target Jordan Matthews in the last 1st if WR is the route we want to go...


I'm with you on Evans, some have him as a sure top 10 pick, I don't see it. The combine will be big for him to prove he has the speed to be able to separate at the NFL level to go along with his great size. He's had too many poor games and the offense he plays in is too tough to judge for him to be a top 15 lock at this point.

If the Rams are to take a guy in the first, Watkins has to be the first choice and I wouldn't count out Lee. It's been a tough year for him but with what he's gone through (losing Barkley, USC turning to the run game, injuries) and with how good he showed himself to be last year, I'm still keeping an eye on him.

The first question that has to be answered is if the Rams even want another WR. Personally, I'm fine with this group. In the last 3 years they've drafted 6 of them, all in the first 4 rounds (only Salas is gone). How Quick and Bailey progress the rest of the way will be key, but you have to wonder if the team is okay going forward with this group and using those picks on positions of definite need (OL, DB)

I will say that if they do take another WR, it better be in the 1st. If not, we're just adding another guy who will start at the bottom of the depth chart and take time before he gets a chance (like Quick, and Bailey, and Pettis) thus, not really helping us for atleast a year. If WR is the need, get the top guy, have him come in right away and play.
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Boboso20


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SAK11 wrote:
kgarrett12486 wrote:
What does everyone see in Mike Evans that they want to spend a top ten pick on the guy? I just don't see it, I'm not even convinced he stays at WR at the next level. He's in the 15-32 range IMO..

I'd rather target Jordan Matthews in the last 1st if WR is the route we want to go...


I'm with you on Evans, some have him as a sure top 10 pick, I don't see it. The combine will be big for him to prove he has the speed to be able to separate at the NFL level to go along with his great size. He's had too many poor games and the offense he plays in is too tough to judge for him to be a top 15 lock at this point.

If the Rams are to take a guy in the first, Watkins has to be the first choice and I wouldn't count out Lee. It's been a tough year for him but with what he's gone through (losing Barkley, USC turning to the run game, injuries) and with how good he showed himself to be last year, I'm still keeping an eye on him.

The first question that has to be answered is if the Rams even want another WR. Personally, I'm fine with this group. In the last 3 years they've drafted 6 of them, all in the first 4 rounds (only Salas is gone). How Quick and Bailey progress the rest of the way will be key, but you have to wonder if the team is okay going forward with this group and using those picks on positions of definite need (OL, DB)

I will say that if they do take another WR, it better be in the 1st. If not, we're just adding another guy who will start at the bottom of the depth chart and take time before he gets a chance (like Quick, and Bailey, and Pettis) thus, not really helping us for atleast a year. If WR is the need, get the top guy, have him come in right away and play.


It doesn't have to be in the first round IMO Jordan Matthews is a beast and a go to guy. But he doesn't have the elite speed or isn't a big name since he plays at Vandy but puts up numbers. Lee, Watkins and Evans will go before him and I don't see that many WR's going in the 1st round since there's potentially a lot of QB's and linemen being taken in the 1st. Mathews will drop into the 2nd and hopefully we can snag him.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kgarrett12486 wrote:
What does everyone see in Mike Evans that they want to spend a top ten pick on the guy? I just don't see it, I'm not even convinced he stays at WR at the next level. He's in the 15-32 range IMO..

I'd rather target Jordan Matthews in the last 1st if WR is the route we want to go...


jrry32 wrote:
davin fanatic wrote:
davin fanatic wrote:
XXXXXXX will be lucky to break 4.7 in the 40. 2nd day pick, IMO.


He should just bulk up and become a Jermichael Finley type pass-catching TE.


Abe56 wrote:
I still think an in shape XXXXX is only capable of a high 4.6, mid 4.7, so if he was that out of shape, that type of 40 is accurate.


Chrissooner49er wrote:
In game, from what I have watched, I don't see any elite speed. I think the lowest he runs will be 4.6. Even if he does run faster, he certainly doesn't play that fast.


Who was this WR you ask? Alshon Jeffery. Many of the things you are guys are saying now, were said about him.

Evans has deceptive speed. There is no chance he moves to TE.

In fact, here's a thread I made about Alshon:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=487994&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

And what has Alshon done in 2013? Been one of the league's most dangerous deep ball WRs.

Here's another good link:
http://secondroundstats.com/2013/11/12/wrs2/
25.5% of Evans's catches came 20+ yards down the field this year. Evans's average depth of catch point was 14.72 yards from the LOS.

Mike Evans plays in the SEC and yet catches a crazy amount of passes down the field...but he's too slow and needs to be moved? Come on guys.

What do I see in Evans that make me want to spend a top 10 pick on him? The same things I saw in Jeffery that made me believe he was a top 10 pick after his sophomore year.

Mike Evans is exactly the type of WR we need...and I don't know what else he could do to prove it. The guy put up 566 yards and 5 TDs in TWO games against Alabama and Auburn.

What does he have to do?
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
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SeanTayorsaPIMP


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys should take Sammy Watkins with the Redskins pick. I am confident he will step in a be a true #1 WR. He reminds me of Julio Jones and I think he and Austin would complement each other perfectly.
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StLunatic88


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two things:

1) The Alshon stuff all stemmed from a bogus picture that everyone thought he had gotten fat, and then never overcame the negitive hype and mis labeled "laziness" so Not the same.

2) Evans also has the luxury of the most dynamic QB we have seen in some time in College Football. Regardless of what you think of Johnny at the NFL level, you cant deny that he makes what even does down field possible.
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kgarrett12486


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Who was this WR you ask? Alshon Jeffery. Many of the things you are guys are saying now, were said about him.

Evans has deceptive speed. There is no chance he moves to TE.


jrry32 wrote:
Mike Evans plays in the SEC and yet catches a crazy amount of passes down the field...but he's too slow and needs to be moved? Come on guys.


1] I wasn't questioning Evans speed, hence why I didn't mention that at all. That was your sole assumption. I'm referring to the fact that he's a massive player (6'4 / 228 - right now). With an NFL weight program he could easily be playing in the 230's. He could be converted, given that he's in the exact same mold of those standout basketball types (Gates, Graham, Hernandez, Cook) who show immense athleticism for the position and are a match-up nightmare. It's definitely not out of the question with the emphasis these types have in the NFL today...

2] You're referencing all these past quotes from other people, but no where have I ever stated that Alshon Jeffery struggled with speed. He ran a 4.48. I get what you're trying to elude to, but Jeffery is 12-17 lbs lighter and doesn't have the potential to move and keep his 4.4 speed. Evans could easily pack on 5-10 lbs and still be in the same neighborhood speed wise (I see him in the high 4.5-low 4.6 range). He could move into a flex/joker/hybrid TE role and excel there with that athleticism...

Plus, I'm not even advocating that he NEEDS to do this. I'm just saying some teams could see this as a viable option, given how important these TE types are now. He could potentially be a bigger mismatch in this role than at WR...

jrry32 wrote:
What do I see in Evans that make me want to spend a top 10 pick on him? The same things I saw in Jeffery that made me believe he was a top 10 pick after his sophomore year.

Mike Evans is exactly the type of WR we need...and I don't know what else he could do to prove it. The guy put up 566 yards and 5 TDs in TWO games against Alabama and Auburn.

What does he have to do?


He's definitely put up huge numbers against SEC teams, but he's also had games against SEC competition where he was held in check or was a non-factor (LSU, Mizzou, Ole Miss). In these games I've seen some things that I don't like (he struggles getting off press coverage at times, he racks up some offensive pass interference calls, sloppy routes)...

I'm not saying I don't wanna draft him, I like the guy. I think he has a ton of upside. I'm just not sure where he translates to better at the moment. Plus, I just don't see him as a top ten pick (nor do I see any WR in this draft as one). He's not the "elite" type prospect that it would take to pull the trigger on a WR that high IMO...
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SAK11


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It doesn't have to be in the first round IMO Jordan Matthews is a beast and a go to guy. But he doesn't have the elite speed or isn't a big name since he plays at Vandy but puts up numbers. Lee, Watkins and Evans will go before him and I don't see that many WR's going in the 1st round since there's potentially a lot of QB's and linemen being taken in the 1st. Mathews will drop into the 2nd and hopefully we can snag him.


If you were to tell me that Mathews would last until our 2nd round pick, and that he could come in and contribute right away, then yes, that would be a wise move to make.
But there is no way of knowing who gets picked where, so who's to say Mathews doesn't get picked in the first? Then what, take the next best WR, someone who would fall right into the WR mix we already have? Plus, if Mathews is to slip to the 2nd, I question if he's the guy we need.
Again, if the Rams feel WR is a definite need, take the best guy in the first and ensure that you're getting a game-changer who can contribute right away.

As far as the Evans debate, comparing him to Jeffrey, I'd wait a bit on that comparison. Jeffrey's hands and physical nature are grade A attributes and he proved to have better speed then some thought with his sub 4.5 forty. Evans hands look great but he still needs to prove himself a little more (it wasn't just the Missouri game, he was shut down against Ole Miss and LSU [stats based only, didn't see it]), and his speed has yet to be measured. He'd need to mark out very well in alot of areas to put himself in Jeffrey's category, as of now I don't have him as a top 10 pick.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StLunatic88 wrote:
Two things:

1) The Alshon stuff all stemmed from a bogus picture that everyone thought he had gotten fat, and then never overcame the negitive hype and mis labeled "laziness" so Not the same.

2) Evans also has the luxury of the most dynamic QB we have seen in some time in College Football. Regardless of what you think of Johnny at the NFL level, you cant deny that he makes what even does down field possible.


http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9881676
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9739384
and watch how easy he makes it look against Alabama:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl2OfgKbEBs

Yes, there are certainly moments where it helps. But Evans is more than capable of separating and making plays on his own. He is not reliant on Manziel's scrambling. However, Manziel does rely on Evans to bail him out at times...like here:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9739860


SAK11 wrote:
As far as the Evans debate, comparing him to Jeffrey, I'd wait a bit on that comparison. Jeffrey's hands and physical nature are grade A attributes and he proved to have better speed then some thought with his sub 4.5 forty. Evans hands look great but he still needs to prove himself a little more (it wasn't just the Missouri game, he was shut down against Ole Miss and LSU [stats based only, didn't see it]), and his speed has yet to be measured. He'd need to mark out very well in alot of areas to put himself in Jeffrey's category, as of now I don't have him as a top 10 pick.


And I was one of the most vocal people on this board before he ran his 40 against the people that claimed he was too slow.

I'll do the same for Evans.

kgarrett12486 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
Who was this WR you ask? Alshon Jeffery. Many of the things you are guys are saying now, were said about him.

Evans has deceptive speed. There is no chance he moves to TE.


jrry32 wrote:
Mike Evans plays in the SEC and yet catches a crazy amount of passes down the field...but he's too slow and needs to be moved? Come on guys.


1] I wasn't questioning Evans speed, hence why I didn't mention that at all. That was your sole assumption. I'm referring to the fact that he's a massive player (6'4 / 228 - right now). With an NFL weight program he could easily be playing in the 230's. He could be converted, given that he's in the exact same mold of those standout basketball types (Gates, Graham, Hernandez, Cook) who show immense athleticism for the position and are a match-up nightmare. It's definitely not out of the question with the emphasis these types have in the NFL today...

2] You're referencing all these past quotes from other people, but no where have I ever stated that Alshon Jeffery struggled with speed. He ran a 4.48. I get what you're trying to elude to, but Jeffery is 12-17 lbs lighter and doesn't have the potential to move and keep his 4.4 speed. Evans could easily pack on 5-10 lbs and still be in the same neighborhood speed wise (I see him in the high 4.5-low 4.6 range). He could move into a flex/joker/hybrid TE role and excel there with that athleticism...

Plus, I'm not even advocating that he NEEDS to do this. I'm just saying some teams could see this as a viable option, given how important these TE types are now. He could potentially be a bigger mismatch in this role than at WR...

jrry32 wrote:
What do I see in Evans that make me want to spend a top 10 pick on him? The same things I saw in Jeffery that made me believe he was a top 10 pick after his sophomore year.

Mike Evans is exactly the type of WR we need...and I don't know what else he could do to prove it. The guy put up 566 yards and 5 TDs in TWO games against Alabama and Auburn.

What does he have to do?


He's definitely put up huge numbers against SEC teams, but he's also had games against SEC competition where he was held in check or was a non-factor (LSU, Mizzou, Ole Miss). In these games I've seen some things that I don't like (he struggles getting off press coverage at times, he racks up some offensive pass interference calls, sloppy routes)...

I'm not saying I don't wanna draft him, I like the guy. I think he has a ton of upside. I'm just not sure where he translates to better at the moment. Plus, I just don't see him as a top ten pick (nor do I see any WR in this draft as one). He's not the "elite" type prospect that it would take to pull the trigger on a WR that high IMO...


Alshon was listed at 6'4" 230 in college. Evans is 6'5" 230. The idea that he'd move to TE is just as crazy as the idea that Jeffery would move to TE.

Evans is a NFL WR.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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