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Week 13: Jacksonville Jaguars @ Cleveland Browns
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SHONUFF


Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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Location: Portland, Oregon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Jags Reply with quote

As a seahawk fan I've been rooting for you guys all year.. While it sucks to miss out on a bridge water, it's great your winning. Creating a winning culture is much better for the longevity of a franchise. Your young player will be confident and play with the swagger they should.

I can see you guys poaching some free agents from my hawks, like Byron maxwell and possibly another. Along with a good draft I can see you guys making a push for the playoffs next season.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want Gus to stay, then I can't see how you could be upset with us winning. Gus is a fiery players coach that talks about doing your job and getting better all the time. His entire coaching style revolves around the idea of players buying in and playing hard for them. If the players don't do that, and don't buy in, he doesn't stay. There's no way you can keep him if that's the case. So, by proxy, the players have to play hard for him for this to work. He also has to coach as hard as he can if he's going to keep the trust of the players. So players continue to play hard and full out, he continues to coach full out. They're trying their hardest (because they have to) and they aren't so terrible as to lose every game. How can that upset you? How can you want Gus to stay and then be upset that the guys are buying into the system and winning as a result?

Are you instead upset that Dave didn't make the team talentless enough to be incapable of winning?
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Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Vino wrote:
Obviously this NFL isn't the same as the NFL of the past. In the past you could build teams around good defense and the run have just a serviceable QB. Now you NEED a franchise QB to have any hopes of going anywhere in this league. Having a QB is the difference between being a 4-12 teams and a 12-4 team, as the Packers are showing now and as the Colts showed last year. Even Cleveland showed the difference between having a QB like Brian Hoyer and having one like Brandon Weeden is. And even the Chiefs are showing what just having a QB who doesn't lose games for you can do.

There are honestly no QBs in this draft I like/trust other than Bridgewater and Johnny, and Johnny is going to have injury problems at this rate.
Okay, fine. Since 1990, 14 QBs have been drafted #1 overall. Two of them won a Super Bowl. That's 14 percent. 14 percent.

Oh, I guess that's going too far back and you'll cry foul. Maybe in the passing era since 2000, so it's no longer the "needs a defense" era?

Since 2000, 3 Super Bowls have been won by #1 overall picks. The others were won by
3 - 199th pick (6th round)
2 - 11th pick
1 - 6th pick
1 - 18th pick
1 - 24th pick
1 - 32nd pick (2nd round)
1 - 227th (9th round)

Well golly! You still don't need the first pick to be successful.


That's true. But still, I think i'd take a 14% chance that we win a Super Bowl with a #1 pick QB. That's not too bad. Not too bad at all.

And it's kinda hard to ignore that the odds of winning a Super Bowl with a #1 pick QB are better than the odds of a QB at any other one specific pick (other than 199th overall :lol ). That's not an accident. 1st overall QBs are plenty capable of busting, and yes you can find a GOAT QB in the 6th round...but the likelihood of that isn't particularly high. Basically, #1 selection QBs tend to be picked #1 overall for a reason.

And i really don't think it's such a great crime to want the best prospect in the draft for this team to build around, and to want a bluechip QB of the future prospect in the fold...and as a product of that, to be a bit disappointed when things look like they might not fall into place for that, again, for a second straight year.
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Jaguarfan


Joined: 27 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's over, boys Crying or Very sad
seriously though, I can't be mad about us winning.
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AngryPirate


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we have the second pick right now unless the redskins SoS drops to 49%. So thursday we will be playing for the first overall pick. All is not lost calm down everyone.
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Vino


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
If you want Gus to stay, then I can't see how you could be upset with us winning. Gus is a fiery players coach that talks about doing your job and getting better all the time. His entire coaching style revolves around the idea of players buying in and playing hard for them. If the players don't do that, and don't buy in, he doesn't stay. There's no way you can keep him if that's the case. So, by proxy, the players have to play hard for him for this to work. He also has to coach as hard as he can if he's going to keep the trust of the players. So players continue to play hard and full out, he continues to coach full out. They're trying their hardest (because they have to) and they aren't so terrible as to lose every game. How can that upset you? How can you want Gus to stay and then be upset that the guys are buying into the system and winning as a result?

Are you instead upset that Dave didn't make the team talentless enough to be incapable of winning?

If we didn't already go 0-8 and blew up the season in the first place I wouldn't be as mad. You can't blame us for being mad that they completely crapped away our season, made us lose hope in any success this season in the first place, and then afterwards when the only thing we have left to look forward to is possibly the number 1 pick that's when they start winning games.

Yes, this is showing Gus is a good coach and can motivate his players and is a good sign of future things when we actually have talent on this team. But I'd rather get my QB this year than win anymore games.
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.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AngryPirate wrote:
we have the second pick right now unless the redskins SoS drops to 49%. So thursday we will be playing for the first overall pick. All is not lost calm down everyone.


I really am pretty much set on getting a pick between 3-7 right now. I don't see how we don't win 1-2 more games. I don't like MIN's chances, ATL is just so iffy, and WAS is pretty terrible too. I still think HOU is going to clutch out 1-2, they nearly beat the Pats today.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vino wrote:
iPwn wrote:
If you want Gus to stay, then I can't see how you could be upset with us winning. Gus is a fiery players coach that talks about doing your job and getting better all the time. His entire coaching style revolves around the idea of players buying in and playing hard for them. If the players don't do that, and don't buy in, he doesn't stay. There's no way you can keep him if that's the case. So, by proxy, the players have to play hard for him for this to work. He also has to coach as hard as he can if he's going to keep the trust of the players. So players continue to play hard and full out, he continues to coach full out. They're trying their hardest (because they have to) and they aren't so terrible as to lose every game. How can that upset you? How can you want Gus to stay and then be upset that the guys are buying into the system and winning as a result?

Are you instead upset that Dave didn't make the team talentless enough to be incapable of winning?

If we didn't already go 0-8 and blew up the season in the first place I wouldn't be as mad. You can't blame us for being mad that they completely crapped away our season, made us lose hope in any success this season in the first place, and then afterwards when the only thing we have left to look forward to is possibly the number 1 pick that's when they start winning games.

Yes, this is showing Gus is a good coach and can motivate his players and is a good sign of future things when we actually have talent on this team. But I'd rather get my QB this year than win anymore games.
Did you really have faith in this team competing this year to begin with? I saw us as a 4 win team and I think most everyone had us in the 1-6 win range all offseason.

I also had us starting 1-7, and would have been 0-8 had I realized the Colts were going to be the class of the division.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a Washington loss


With a Washington win


So we lose to the Texans and we're back at #1. But everyone just continue to be mad about the team showing progress, by all means.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anybody is mad about 'showing progress'. That's clearly a positive and very encouraging to see.

A lot of people are disappointed and worried though, that we've won 3 straight, with a pretty weak schedule ahead, and are now just clinging to a chance at the top pick.

I think there's a pretty big difference between the two.
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Jaguarfan


Joined: 27 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
I don't think anybody is mad about 'showing progress'. That's clearly a positive and very encouraging to see.

A lot of people are disappointed and worried though, that we've won 3 straight, with a pretty weak schedule ahead, and are now just clinging to a chance at the top pick.

I think there's a pretty big difference between the two.

Playoffs or bust at this point Laughing
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DuvalsKing


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone would be mad if they would have been competitive all year… you pissed away the first half of the season and now they want to show up and play ball its too late for all that. I've been disappointed for the last five seasons and we have a legit chance in a year where there is a legit QB and you want to come on the last five games of the season why? For what a moral victory I can endure losing out the rest of the season because the reward 3 seasons down the road with a young franchise guy we can watch grow will be just fine with me.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
I don't think anybody is mad about 'showing progress'. That's clearly a positive and very encouraging to see.

A lot of people are disappointed and worried though, that we've won 3 straight, with a pretty weak schedule ahead, and are now just clinging to a chance at the top pick.

I think there's a pretty big difference between the two.
There's certainly people pissed off that we're winning.
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Vino


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, I've been reading around and a lot of people are high on Carr, some saying he's not that far behind Bridgewater or they like him more at this point. I don't really know, but they make some legit arguments for it even though most draft boards still have Bridgewater in front. If Carr is worth that much I'm sure Caldwell will draft the right guy.
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sadjag


Joined: 02 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see the point in getting so upset over draft position. I think you guys are missing the point. Outside of injuries, every single one of our draft picks are contributing. When did Gene Smith ever do that? Could Jack or Mularkey have kept an 0-8 team playing their butts off? Could they have taken under performing guys like Alan Ball, Blackmon, Marks and Branch and coach them up?


It would have been nice too have the highest draft pick but I would argue that this franchises' biggest issue was at General Manager. And it's starting too seem too me that we have finally gotten a good one. It's way too early to tell but this draft seems too be really good and the free agents he brought in have been surprisingly impactful and cheap.

Things could wind up going down in a sea of flames but for the moment I'd say that Dave has done a bang up job and I trust him too find his guy where he finds him whether that's one overall or 199th.

In the mean time It's beenalot of fun watching this team actually improve for the first time in what seems like forever.
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