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Brandon Pettigrew's overlooked ability
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuhPLEX wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Those choices are garbage, but whatever. Most fans hate the Pettigrew pick because they know he wasn't expected to be an explosive vertical threat. I didn't mind the pick: adding a great blocking TE who can act as a safety valve for a young QB who already has Calvin Johnson made a lot of sense.

Feel free to believe that they expected the 4.83 40 yard dash 6'6" 260 LB TE who predominantly blocked in college to be an explosive vertical threat. That opinion is yours to have.

Good blocking TE's with decent hands are a dime a dozen. We drafted one in the 7th this year.

So either he was overdrafted I.E. a bad pick, or the staff expected more and he hasn't lived up to expectations.

(BTW, Williams scouting report sounds like a carbon copy of Grew)

Quote:
Michael Williams is the best in-line blocker of any tight end in the draft class. He has not been and does not have the athleticism to be a downfield, vertical receiving threat, but as a blocking specialist and short-yardage receiving threat, he should fit a defined role on an NFL active roster.

Williams is strong at the line of scrimmage as a blocker and consistently springs runs by picking up blocks all over the field. He is also an effective pass-protector for a tight end, and is an effective in short-yardage and red zone situations.

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2013/02/michael-williams-scouting-report.html

Just for funsies, I looked at some of Grew's scouting reports

Quote:
Pettigrew is an NFL-ready tight end with good athleticism and a frame well-suited for the pros. Good enough athleticism to be a serious threat in the passing game. Has solid hands but tends to catch with his body from time to time. Size causes mismatches for defenders. Hes too fast for most linebackers and too big for safeties.

http://www.sbnation.com/2009/1/31/738284/scouting-report-brandon-pe

Quote:
NFL comparison: Jason Witten, Dallas Cowboys
Pettigrew might be a slightly better blocker then Witten, but they are in the same mold. Pettigrew has the potential to be the over the middle threat that Witten is - too big for safeties to handle by themselves and to fast for most linebackers to deal with.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2009/4/5/822162/rumblings-scouting-report-oklahoma

I have a hard time believing the Lions had the same role for him in mind as a 7rd pick. Either bad pick, or not living up to expectations.
Try both.
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Those choices are garbage, but whatever. Most fans hate the Pettigrew pick because they know he wasn't expected to be an explosive vertical threat. I didn't mind the pick: adding a great blocking TE who can act as a safety valve for a young QB who already has Calvin Johnson made a lot of sense.

Feel free to believe that they expected the 4.83 40 yard dash 6'6" 260 LB TE who predominantly blocked in college to be an explosive vertical threat. That opinion is yours to have.
since when have blocking TEs been profiled and called first rd picks.if the lions are so clever why was the choice made in rd one? Grew was hyped prospect if I ever saw one.. and my opinion is...it was never the right move building a team from scratch even if those were his expectations.
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't read every post over the last few pages, but it seems people are holding Grew's draft position against him more than I thought they did. That kind of logic doesn't make any sense to me. Who cares how he got here? He has been a Lion for several seasons now so we should be basing what we think about him based on his play, not his draft status.

In the past he has been the model of inconsistency, both making great plays and terrible plays. I'll always remember Grew for catching Stafford's TD throw when Stafford had a separated shoulder as well as fumbling on back to back plays against Chicago. However, after a shaky start this season he has played very well over the past several games, and anyone who doesn't see that needs to put down the Haterade.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
Haven't read every post over the last few pages, but it seems people are holding Grew's draft position against him more than I thought they did. That kind of logic doesn't make any sense to me. Who cares how he got here? He has been a Lion for several seasons now so we should be basing what we think about him based on his play, not his draft status.

In the past he has been the model of inconsistency, both making great plays and terrible plays. I'll always remember Grew for catching Stafford's TD throw when Stafford had a separated shoulder as well as fumbling on back to back plays against Chicago. However, after a shaky start this season he has played very well over the past several games, and anyone who doesn't see that needs to put down the Haterade.
The problem there is you hear all the same BS arguments we're hearing now when he's sucking it up as well.

So when he's fumbling, dropping passes, and getting penalties- we should just accept him for what he is. But when he's going through a good stretch we should just admit that we're wrong about him.

Forget all that. I'll give credit when credit's due, but he's got a long ways to go before I believe we should even retain him without him slashing half of his pay(and it's still a bad draft pick no matter what).
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
Haven't read every post over the last few pages, but it seems people are holding Grew's draft position against him more than I thought they did. That kind of logic doesn't make any sense to me. Who cares how he got here? He has been a Lion for several seasons now so we should be basing what we think about him based on his play, not his draft status.

In the past he has been the model of inconsistency, both making great plays and terrible plays. I'll always remember Grew for catching Stafford's TD throw when Stafford had a separated shoulder as well as fumbling on back to back plays against Chicago. However, after a shaky start this season he has played very well over the past several games, and anyone who doesn't see that needs to put down the Haterade.
The problem there is you hear all the same BS arguments we're hearing now when he's sucking it up as well.

So when he's fumbling, dropping passes, and getting penalties- we should just accept him for what he is. But when he's going through a good stretch we should just admit that we're wrong about him.

Forget all that. I'll give credit when credit's due, but he's got a long ways to go before I believe we should even retain him without him slashing half of his pay(and it's still a bad draft pick no matter what).


Stylish, isn't his draft position something we should all let go off. If anyone takes heat for where he was drafted it should be Mayhew. He made the decision.
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
Haven't read every post over the last few pages, but it seems people are holding Grew's draft position against him more than I thought they did. That kind of logic doesn't make any sense to me. Who cares how he got here? He has been a Lion for several seasons now so we should be basing what we think about him based on his play, not his draft status.

In the past he has been the model of inconsistency, both making great plays and terrible plays. I'll always remember Grew for catching Stafford's TD throw when Stafford had a separated shoulder as well as fumbling on back to back plays against Chicago. However, after a shaky start this season he has played very well over the past several games, and anyone who doesn't see that needs to put down the Haterade.
The problem there is you hear all the same BS arguments we're hearing now when he's sucking it up as well.

So when he's fumbling, dropping passes, and getting penalties- we should just accept him for what he is. But when he's going through a good stretch we should just admit that we're wrong about him.

Forget all that. I'll give credit when credit's due, but he's got a long ways to go before I believe we should even retain him without him slashing half of his pay(and it's still a bad draft pick no matter what).


I don't think I said any of those things you think I said. It sounds like you think I'm like TL and defending him non stop, but earlier this year I was adamantly wanting him to see a significantly smaller roll. I'm very critical of Pettigrew when he is hurting the team, but I'm also able to recognize when he plays well. I do agree, if we resign him next year, he needs to take a pay cut. If not, hopefully Williams can step in and be as effective without the errors.

I just think that hating on him because of where he was drafted is silly. Hate on Mayhew because of where Pettigrew was drafted, he is the one who had a choice in the matter.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
Haven't read every post over the last few pages, but it seems people are holding Grew's draft position against him more than I thought they did. That kind of logic doesn't make any sense to me. Who cares how he got here? He has been a Lion for several seasons now so we should be basing what we think about him based on his play, not his draft status.

In the past he has been the model of inconsistency, both making great plays and terrible plays. I'll always remember Grew for catching Stafford's TD throw when Stafford had a separated shoulder as well as fumbling on back to back plays against Chicago. However, after a shaky start this season he has played very well over the past several games, and anyone who doesn't see that needs to put down the Haterade.
The problem there is you hear all the same BS arguments we're hearing now when he's sucking it up as well.

So when he's fumbling, dropping passes, and getting penalties- we should just accept him for what he is. But when he's going through a good stretch we should just admit that we're wrong about him.

Forget all that. I'll give credit when credit's due, but he's got a long ways to go before I believe we should even retain him without him slashing half of his pay(and it's still a bad draft pick no matter what).


Stylish, isn't his draft position something we should all let go off. If anyone takes heat for where he was drafted it should be Mayhew. He made the decision.
I can differentiate between not liking his draft position, and not liking what he's bringing on the field. And ignoring my last little snipe, that's what my post stated.

When he's going through a good stretch of football, all of his fans come out the stick's to tell us how good he is and how appreciative we should be that we have him on our team. But when he's playing like trash, they also tell us to just accept what he is.

He's inconsistent as hell, and history tells us that at any time in the near future he'll drop a load of cow crap and single handedly try to lose a game. It's been 4 years of this ish, and I'm tired of talking bout it. He's an average/to below average NFL player and if he slashes his pay in half then I wouldn't mind keeping him around as roster fodder- but we need to look for an upgrade.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this entire conversation is so over played its become nauseating.

During Pettigrews college career he was never a down field threat. He was and remains an all around TE, period. I don't care what the old scouting reports from Jim and Joes draft guide claims that's what he was.

During Grews time at OSU Jermaine Gresham played at Oklahoma. The two were compared to death because it was expected Gresham would declare for the 2009 draft.

Gresham was the better receiver and more athletic of the two while Pettigrew was more well rounded because he was a far better blocker.

I hated the pick when it was made because I had watched so many of Grews games. But where he was selected is history and totally irrelevant at this point in time. There were also other players I felt would be bigger impact players.

The reality is they can't find a TE to replace Grew and his skill set. Sure they can find a better receiving TE but obviously that's not what they want from their TE. Comparing other TE's on Detroit's roster to Pettigrew is silly. If they were so good they'd see the field a great deal more.

As for the discussion around being able to draft a TE like Grew later in the draft that may be so but the same can be said for every position in football. Most QB's haven't been drafted first overall so does that diminish Stafford?

No, because once a pick is made it doesn't matter if you were picked 1st or 151st its what you do on the field.

There's no doubt Pettigrew gets a raise. He worth significantly more than the million and change he gets now.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
I think this entire conversation is so over played its become nauseating.

During Pettigrews college career he was never a down field threat. He was and remains an all around TE, period. I don't care what the old scouting reports from Jim and Joes draft guide claims that's what he was.

During Grews time at OSU Jermaine Gresham played at Oklahoma. The two were compared to death because it was expected Gresham would declare for the 2009 draft.

Gresham was the better receiver and more athletic of the two while Pettigrew was more well rounded because he was a far better blocker.

I hated the pick when it was made because I had watched so many of Grews games. But where he was selected is history and totally irrelevant at this point in time. There were also other players I felt would be bigger impact players.

The reality is they can't find a TE to replace Grew and his skill set. Sure they can find a better receiving TE but obviously that's not what they want from their TE. Comparing other TE's on Detroit's roster to Pettigrew is silly. If they were so good they'd see the field a great deal more.

As for the discussion around being able to draft a TE like Grew later in the draft that may be so but the same can be said for every position in football. Most QB's haven't been drafted first overall so does that diminish Stafford?

No, because once a pick is made it doesn't matter if you were picked 1st or 151st its what you do on the field.

There's no doubt Pettigrew gets a raise. He worth significantly more than the million and change he gets now.
Pettigrew made $1.946M this season, with a $1.273M bonus which costed us $3.47M against the cap.

You're right, his draft position is irrelevant concerning his performance history. His history tells us he's bound to start screwing up once again. He's playing for a contract right now, is that factoring into his sudden rise in performance on Sunday's?

His blocking has been overrated on this forum for years, it's as inconsistent as his hands. People act as if he's always bringing it as a blocker when in fact in the past he's blown plenty of assignments and has been called for plenty of penalties. I think exactly what you've gotten from Grew as a receiver is what you've gotten from him as a blocker.

If you think he's worth a pay raise you're entitled to your opinion but I strongly disagree and believe that would be bad money spent.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
But when he's going through a good stretch we should just admit that we're wrong about him.

Yes, you should admit that you were wrong about demanding he be released after week 2 of this season.
stylish313 wrote:
and it's still a bad draft pick no matter what

Really? If Pettigrew finished 2013 with a bunch of strong performances (as he has so far), was re-signed, and completed a quality career with the Lions, he'd still be a bad draft pick? Because I get that vibe from a bunch of you, and I think it's completely unreasonable.
stylish313 wrote:
His history tells us he's bound to start screwing up once again.

And Stafford is made of glass, and Avril is a top tier NFL DE, etc. Yes, stylish, it's inevitable that Pettigrew will succumb to his deficiencies and be awful once again. (When, in reality, his history suggests that the first two games of this season were the uncommon performances, and he's an underrated player.)

SuhPLEX wrote:
Good blocking TE's with decent hands are a dime a dozen. We drafted one in the 7th this year.

Has Williams shown in any way that he's as good as Pettigrew is right now? No. Absolutely not. So, yeah, this entire argument just doesn't work.

Nnivolcm wrote:
It sounds like you think I'm like TL and defending him non stop

I argue in favor of Pettigrew when the excessively unreasonable comments are made about him. In all actuality, I'd say that my view of what he is is both reasonable and accurate: he's a big body with inconsistent hands who's a pretty good blocker. When others demanded that he be released, I defended him.

I don't think my stance is anything ridiculous. I've just defended him more than others bother to.
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do want to say I like it when they throw him outs to calvins side and puts alittle hurtn on the cbs covering cj... I remember they did that like two or three times in a row againtsthe bears and tillman felt everyone you could tell. He did fumble on one tho...I would like to see him do like hines ward did to fools. I'd still like to find a sure handed TE and have Grew as nore an enforcer out there. Share time between the two and keep teams really off balance. But also think we have a lot more bigger areas of concern to be throwing to much at a Te like Grew.

Depends how they want to run the O I guess. 3 wrs we probably need a Grew type.. 2 wrs 2Tes is what I'd like.. I'd rather a Fb too over a Grew at Te..anyway

All I'm saying is if the moneys right I won't complain but I can also see him nose diving after a new contract..we still need to address the Te position even if grew resigns imo or get some recievers up in here..
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SuhPLEX


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I offered a very objective, fair view of Pettigrew. Give props when props is due, but call a thing a thing. I didn't even start bringing the draft into the discussion until TL said the Lions didn't draft him to be a receiving threat.

You guys have made good points that the draft doesn't matter at this point. I shouldn't have taken the bait.
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I honestly wouldn't be upset if we draft 3 TE's

TE is the new QB Very Happy
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SuhPLEX


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockcity wrote:
I do want to say I like it when they throw him outs to calvins side and puts alittle hurtn on the cbs covering cj... I remember they did that like two or three times in a row againtsthe bears and tillman felt everyone you could tell. He did fumble on one tho...I would like to see him do like hines ward did to fools. I'd still like to find a sure handed TE and have Grew as nore an enforcer out there. Share time between the two and keep teams really off balance. But also think we have a lot more bigger areas of concern to be throwing to much at a Te like Grew.

Depends how they want to run the O I guess. 3 wrs we probably need a Grew type.. 2 wrs 2Tes is what I'd like.. I'd rather a Fb too over a Grew at Te..anyway

All I'm saying is if the moneys right I won't complain but I can also see him nose diving after a new contract..we still need to address the Te position even if grew resigns imo or get some recievers up in here..

Good post. We need more weapons other than CJ/Bush. Whether it's a TE or a WR, we need more explosive players
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IDOG_det wrote:
I honestly wouldn't be upset if we draft 3 TE's

TE is the new QB Very Happy
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuhPLEX wrote:
I offered a very objective, fair view of Pettigrew. Give props when props is due, but call a thing a thing. I didn't even start bringing the draft into the discussion until TL said the Lions didn't draft him to be a receiving threat.

You guys have made good points that the draft doesn't matter at this point. I shouldn't have taken the bait.

Taken the bait? Whatever. You feel that the team drafted him expecting him to be an explosive vertical threat. That's inaccurate.
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
I offered a very objective, fair view of Pettigrew. Give props when props is due, but call a thing a thing. I didn't even start bringing the draft into the discussion until TL said the Lions didn't draft him to be a receiving threat.

You guys have made good points that the draft doesn't matter at this point. I shouldn't have taken the bait.

Taken the bait? Whatever. You feel that the team drafted him expecting him to be an explosive vertical threat. That's inaccurate.
ya you told us 50 times already..I too think its more than your saying. I believe they expected more..how am I wrong..
If you wanna believe everything they tell the media more power to ya. Who would ever draft a skill set you suggest in rd one.. only fool I can think of is millen/mayhew.
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