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Brandon Pettigrew's overlooked ability
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of pretending to know their motives, you can always take their words:
Quote:
“(We) thought he was, obviously, the most complete tight end in the draft,” said Lions coach Jim Schwartz Monday looking back to that draft. “There are not many multidimensional tight ends to come out. Guys that can block, can receive in short area and distance and everything else and I think we obviously had a lot of confidence and having a good tight end is key to having a good offense.”

“The piece we had in place here was Calvin Johnson and we needed to do a lot of other work. When you can get the best player at a position in the draft, particularly where we got him, I think that it obviously paid off,” Schwartz said.

They didn't think he was some explosive weapon or anything. He was projected to be an elite blocker who is a big body with soft hands. And that's my point: Pettigrew's skillset wasn't a secret. They didn't draft him expecting him to be an elite, explosive down field weapon, then change his responsibilities to fit his skillset. He was drafted for *this* role.

Quality blocking and a big, short-yardage security blanket isn't a "substantial impact in the passing game"? Eh, alright. I guess you could argue that he doesn't, but (as you said) he does his job well. If a player is performing his job well, I don't really care about the rest.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

X_Factor_40 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Pettigrew practicing today with a brace on his knee.


Hopefully it's not a big issue. He may not be Gronk in the passing game, but he does add quite a bit as a blocker. If he can't be as effective it could hurt more than most realize.
If any starter isn't effective at what they do, it will hurt his unit.

Personally, I'd love to see the Lions offense absent Pettigrew for just one game. Line up Furia and use him to his strengths, as a receiver. With Waddle blocking well, I think our offense could be much more fluid.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
X_Factor_40 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Pettigrew practicing today with a brace on his knee.


Hopefully it's not a big issue. He may not be Gronk in the passing game, but he does add quite a bit as a blocker. If he can't be as effective it could hurt more than most realize.
If any starter isn't effective at what they do, it will hurt his unit.

Personally, I'd love to see the Lions offense absent Pettigrew for just one game. Line up Furia and use him to his strengths, as a receiver. With Waddle blocking well, I think our offense could be much more fluid.

Fauria's strength so far is as a red zone target. He isn't fast, nor is he able to get separation without being physical, and is a below-average blocker. Removing Pettigrew from the field would just lead to more 3 WR, 2 RB sets.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
If you want to continue this conversation, lets talk about Grew's influence on the passing game (where he leaves a lot to be desired)

What? You agreed with detfan's argument that, statistically, Pettigrew has had a similar pass-catching impact to Witten and Gonzalez, but feel he "leaves a lot to be desired" in the passing game? Please explain.

I never said he has similar impact, all I was doing was acknowledging that the objective data he posted supported his point.

He leaves a lot to be desired because he lacks the athletic ability to be a dynamic force in the passing game. He doesn't break tackles often, doesn't create much separation, and doesn't have the speed to be a good vertical passing threat. Add to that his inconsistent hands and fumbling issues (which he has improved upon as this year went on) and I've come to the conclusion that he leaves a lot to be desired.

Not only did you ignore his contributions in pass-protection, but one doesn't have to be a "dynamic force" to contribute in a significant way. Without the fumbles and drops (which stopped being a factor after week 2), Pettigrew has played his role on this team extremely well: he was never expected to be a vertical threat.


Had they wanted a TE as a vertical threat I expect they would've drafted Jermaine Gresham.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
If you want to continue this conversation, lets talk about Grew's influence on the passing game (where he leaves a lot to be desired)

What? You agreed with detfan's argument that, statistically, Pettigrew has had a similar pass-catching impact to Witten and Gonzalez, but feel he "leaves a lot to be desired" in the passing game? Please explain.

I never said he has similar impact, all I was doing was acknowledging that the objective data he posted supported his point.

He leaves a lot to be desired because he lacks the athletic ability to be a dynamic force in the passing game. He doesn't break tackles often, doesn't create much separation, and doesn't have the speed to be a good vertical passing threat. Add to that his inconsistent hands and fumbling issues (which he has improved upon as this year went on) and I've come to the conclusion that he leaves a lot to be desired.

Not only did you ignore his contributions in pass-protection, but one doesn't have to be a "dynamic force" to contribute in a significant way. Without the fumbles and drops (which stopped being a factor after week 2), Pettigrew has played his role on this team extremely well: he was never expected to be a vertical threat.


Had they wanted a TE as a vertical threat I expect they would've drafted Jermaine Gresham.

Absolutely. Not only did the coaches never state that they expected Pettigrew to be some explosive vertical threat, but he was never considered to have that skill set. He's used in exactly the way that Schwartz stated when they drafted him.
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Instead of pretending to know their motives, you can always take their words:
Quote:
“(We) thought he was, obviously, the most complete tight end in the draft,” said Lions coach Jim Schwartz Monday looking back to that draft. “There are not many multidimensional tight ends to come out. Guys that can block, can receive in short area and distance and everything else and I think we obviously had a lot of confidence and having a good tight end is key to having a good offense.”

“The piece we had in place here was Calvin Johnson and we needed to do a lot of other work. When you can get the best player at a position in the draft, particularly where we got him, I think that it obviously paid off,” Schwartz said.

They didn't think he was some explosive weapon or anything. He was projected to be an elite blocker who is a big body with soft hands. And that's my point: Pettigrew's skillset wasn't a secret. They didn't draft him expecting him to be an elite, explosive down field weapon, then change his responsibilities to fit his skillset. He was drafted for *this* role.

Quality blocking and a big, short-yardage security blanket isn't a "substantial impact in the passing game"? Eh, alright. I guess you could argue that he doesn't, but (as you said) he does his job well. If a player is performing his job well, I don't really care about the rest.
lol I'm not buying that. What gm drafts basiclly a fb in rd one...grew showed he was a weapon a OSU and they got suckered. They can pretend the picked worked out but I'm not buying that's what they wanted..there are a ton of guys that fit for what you and they describe. ..you really think they would take that in the first bc he offers a 5yd package... it will always be a bad pick period.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
If you want to continue this conversation, lets talk about Grew's influence on the passing game (where he leaves a lot to be desired)

What? You agreed with detfan's argument that, statistically, Pettigrew has had a similar pass-catching impact to Witten and Gonzalez, but feel he "leaves a lot to be desired" in the passing game? Please explain.

I never said he has similar impact, all I was doing was acknowledging that the objective data he posted supported his point.

He leaves a lot to be desired because he lacks the athletic ability to be a dynamic force in the passing game. He doesn't break tackles often, doesn't create much separation, and doesn't have the speed to be a good vertical passing threat. Add to that his inconsistent hands and fumbling issues (which he has improved upon as this year went on) and I've come to the conclusion that he leaves a lot to be desired.

Not only did you ignore his contributions in pass-protection, but one doesn't have to be a "dynamic force" to contribute in a significant way. Without the fumbles and drops (which stopped being a factor after week 2), Pettigrew has played his role on this team extremely well: he was never expected to be a vertical threat.


Had they wanted a TE as a vertical threat I expect they would've drafted Jermaine Gresham.
They would've had to trade up a half a round to do that, which would've been even more ridiculous than drafting Pettigrew himself.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockcity wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Instead of pretending to know their motives, you can always take their words:
Quote:
“(We) thought he was, obviously, the most complete tight end in the draft,” said Lions coach Jim Schwartz Monday looking back to that draft. “There are not many multidimensional tight ends to come out. Guys that can block, can receive in short area and distance and everything else and I think we obviously had a lot of confidence and having a good tight end is key to having a good offense.”

“The piece we had in place here was Calvin Johnson and we needed to do a lot of other work. When you can get the best player at a position in the draft, particularly where we got him, I think that it obviously paid off,” Schwartz said.

They didn't think he was some explosive weapon or anything. He was projected to be an elite blocker who is a big body with soft hands. And that's my point: Pettigrew's skillset wasn't a secret. They didn't draft him expecting him to be an elite, explosive down field weapon, then change his responsibilities to fit his skillset. He was drafted for *this* role.

Quality blocking and a big, short-yardage security blanket isn't a "substantial impact in the passing game"? Eh, alright. I guess you could argue that he doesn't, but (as you said) he does his job well. If a player is performing his job well, I don't really care about the rest.
lol I'm not buying that. What gm drafts basiclly a fb in rd one...grew showed he was a weapon a OSU and they got suckered. They can pretend the picked worked out but I'm not buying that's what they wanted..there are a ton of guys that fit for what you and they describe. ..you really think they would take that in the first bc he offers a 5yd package... it will always be a bad pick period.

Pettigrew showed he was a weapon in college? He had 11, 24, 39 and 42 receptions, with a total of 9 TDs, throughout his career. Hr was actually asked to block frequently in college.

But, yes... they drafted a 6'6", 260 LB TE that ran a 4.83 40 and had marginal receiving stats because they expected him to be an explosive vertical threat.

Right.
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Rockcity wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Instead of pretending to know their motives, you can always take their words:
Quote:
“(We) thought he was, obviously, the most complete tight end in the draft,” said Lions coach Jim Schwartz Monday looking back to that draft. “There are not many multidimensional tight ends to come out. Guys that can block, can receive in short area and distance and everything else and I think we obviously had a lot of confidence and having a good tight end is key to having a good offense.”

“The piece we had in place here was Calvin Johnson and we needed to do a lot of other work. When you can get the best player at a position in the draft, particularly where we got him, I think that it obviously paid off,” Schwartz said.

They didn't think he was some explosive weapon or anything. He was projected to be an elite blocker who is a big body with soft hands. And that's my point: Pettigrew's skillset wasn't a secret. They didn't draft him expecting him to be an elite, explosive down field weapon, then change his responsibilities to fit his skillset. He was drafted for *this* role.

Quality blocking and a big, short-yardage security blanket isn't a "substantial impact in the passing game"? Eh, alright. I guess you could argue that he doesn't, but (as you said) he does his job well. If a player is performing his job well, I don't really care about the rest.
lol I'm not buying that. What gm drafts basiclly a fb in rd one...grew showed he was a weapon a OSU and they got suckered. They can pretend the picked worked out but I'm not buying that's what they wanted..there are a ton of guys that fit for what you and they describe. ..you really think they would take that in the first bc he offers a 5yd package... it will always be a bad pick period.

Pettigrew showed he was a weapon in college? He had 11, 24, 39 and 42 receptions, with a total of 9 TDs, throughout his career. Hr was actually asked to block frequently in college.

But, yes... they drafted a 6'6", 260 LB TE that ran a 4.83 40 and had marginal receiving stats because they expected him to be an explosive vertical threat.

Right.
ya bc its so hard to find a Grew right..so hard they just had to have him in rd one... you can not tell me they didn't expect more than this. We shall see if they resign him and what kinda deal. Should be telling
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it's not really hard to find what we know Pettigrew to be, and that's exactly why the pick is heavily criticized. As a prospect, he was expected to be an elite blocker with great hands. Both of those were a bit off: he's a good blocker with inconsistent hands. If he continues to display reliable hands, he could make a case as one of the best all-around TEs in the league.

Not once was he expected to be an explosive vertical threat.
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SuhPLEX


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Instead of pretending to know their motives, you can always take their words:
Quote:
“(We) thought he was, obviously, the most complete tight end in the draft,” said Lions coach Jim Schwartz Monday looking back to that draft. “There are not many multidimensional tight ends to come out. Guys that can block, can receive in short area and distance and everything else and I think we obviously had a lot of confidence and having a good tight end is key to having a good offense.”

“The piece we had in place here was Calvin Johnson and we needed to do a lot of other work. When you can get the best player at a position in the draft, particularly where we got him, I think that it obviously paid off,” Schwartz said.

They didn't think he was some explosive weapon or anything. He was projected to be an elite blocker who is a big body with soft hands. And that's my point: Pettigrew's skillset wasn't a secret. They didn't draft him expecting him to be an elite, explosive down field weapon, then change his responsibilities to fit his skillset. He was drafted for *this* role.

Quality blocking and a big, short-yardage security blanket isn't a "substantial impact in the passing game"? Eh, alright. I guess you could argue that he doesn't, but (as you said) he does his job well. If a player is performing his job well, I don't really care about the rest.


That quote says "can receive in the short area and distance"

Using this quote, they say they want him to be a downfield threat (that's what "receiving in distance" means, right?)
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I honestly wouldn't be upset if we draft 3 TE's

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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuhPLEX wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Instead of pretending to know their motives, you can always take their words:
Quote:
“(We) thought he was, obviously, the most complete tight end in the draft,” said Lions coach Jim Schwartz Monday looking back to that draft. “There are not many multidimensional tight ends to come out. Guys that can block, can receive in short area and distance and everything else and I think we obviously had a lot of confidence and having a good tight end is key to having a good offense.”

“The piece we had in place here was Calvin Johnson and we needed to do a lot of other work. When you can get the best player at a position in the draft, particularly where we got him, I think that it obviously paid off,” Schwartz said.

They didn't think he was some explosive weapon or anything. He was projected to be an elite blocker who is a big body with soft hands. And that's my point: Pettigrew's skillset wasn't a secret. They didn't draft him expecting him to be an elite, explosive down field weapon, then change his responsibilities to fit his skillset. He was drafted for *this* role.

Quality blocking and a big, short-yardage security blanket isn't a "substantial impact in the passing game"? Eh, alright. I guess you could argue that he doesn't, but (as you said) he does his job well. If a player is performing his job well, I don't really care about the rest.


That quote says "can receive in the short area and distance"

Using this quote, they say they want him to be a downfield threat (that's what "receiving in distance" means, right?)

Wow. From everything there, that's what you took from that? Not only do I read that to say "short area and distance", as in "short area and short distance", he even mentions how he wants him to do "other work" from what Calvin is doing. Considering Calvin is the vertical threat, I'd say he wanted him to have a different role.

But we knew this. No one expected a 6'6" 260 LB TE with marginal college receiving stats and a 4.83 40 yard dash to be an explosive vertical weapon.
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SuhPLEX


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Instead of pretending to know their motives, you can always take their words:
Quote:
“(We) thought he was, obviously, the most complete tight end in the draft,” said Lions coach Jim Schwartz Monday looking back to that draft. “There are not many multidimensional tight ends to come out. Guys that can block, can receive in short area and distance and everything else and I think we obviously had a lot of confidence and having a good tight end is key to having a good offense.”

“The piece we had in place here was Calvin Johnson and we needed to do a lot of other work. When you can get the best player at a position in the draft, particularly where we got him, I think that it obviously paid off,” Schwartz said.

They didn't think he was some explosive weapon or anything. He was projected to be an elite blocker who is a big body with soft hands. And that's my point: Pettigrew's skillset wasn't a secret. They didn't draft him expecting him to be an elite, explosive down field weapon, then change his responsibilities to fit his skillset. He was drafted for *this* role.

Quality blocking and a big, short-yardage security blanket isn't a "substantial impact in the passing game"? Eh, alright. I guess you could argue that he doesn't, but (as you said) he does his job well. If a player is performing his job well, I don't really care about the rest.


That quote says "can receive in the short area and distance"

Using this quote, they say they want him to be a downfield threat (that's what "receiving in distance" means, right?)

Wow. From everything there, that's what you took from that? Not only do I read that to say "short area and distance", as in "short area and short distance", he even mentions how he wants him to do "other work" from what Calvin is doing. Considering Calvin is the vertical threat, I'd say he wanted him to have a different role.

But we knew this. No one expected a 6'6" 260 LB TE with marginal college receiving stats and a 4.83 40 yard dash to be an explosive vertical weapon.

They were talking about having pieces in place, and drafting the best player at his position as another piece... he wasn't talking about Calvins ability to stretch the field

But I digress. We can read into the quote however we want, there's not much sense continuing to discuss it because neither of us have contact with Schwartz to ask him to clarify.

So, we're left with two conclusions. Either Grew lacks ability in this certain area of his game, or he was a terrible pick. Which one do you choose?
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those choices are garbage, but whatever. Most fans hate the Pettigrew pick because they know he wasn't expected to be an explosive vertical threat. I didn't mind the pick: adding a great blocking TE who can act as a safety valve for a young QB who already has Calvin Johnson made a lot of sense.

Feel free to believe that they expected the 4.83 40 yard dash 6'6" 260 LB TE who predominantly blocked in college to be an explosive vertical threat. That opinion is yours to have.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Those choices are garbage, but whatever. Most fans hate the Pettigrew pick because they know he wasn't expected to be an explosive vertical threat. I didn't mind the pick: adding a great blocking TE who can act as a safety valve for a young QB who already has Calvin Johnson made a lot of sense.

Feel free to believe that they expected the 4.83 40 yard dash 6'6" 260 LB TE who predominantly blocked in college to be an explosive vertical threat. That opinion is yours to have.

Good blocking TE's with decent hands are a dime a dozen. We drafted one in the 7th this year.

So either he was overdrafted I.E. a bad pick, or the staff expected more and he hasn't lived up to expectations.

(BTW, Williams scouting report sounds like a carbon copy of Grew)

Quote:
Michael Williams is the best in-line blocker of any tight end in the draft class. He has not been and does not have the athleticism to be a downfield, vertical receiving threat, but as a blocking specialist and short-yardage receiving threat, he should fit a defined role on an NFL active roster.

Williams is strong at the line of scrimmage as a blocker and consistently springs runs by picking up blocks all over the field. He is also an effective pass-protector for a tight end, and is an effective in short-yardage and red zone situations.

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2013/02/michael-williams-scouting-report.html

Just for funsies, I looked at some of Grew's scouting reports

Quote:
Pettigrew is an NFL-ready tight end with good athleticism and a frame well-suited for the pros. Good enough athleticism to be a serious threat in the passing game. Has solid hands but tends to catch with his body from time to time. Size causes mismatches for defenders. He’s too fast for most linebackers and too big for safeties.

http://www.sbnation.com/2009/1/31/738284/scouting-report-brandon-pe

Quote:
NFL comparison: Jason Witten, Dallas Cowboys
Pettigrew might be a slightly better blocker then Witten, but they are in the same mold. Pettigrew has the potential to be the over the middle threat that Witten is - too big for safeties to handle by themselves and to fast for most linebackers to deal with.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2009/4/5/822162/rumblings-scouting-report-oklahoma

I have a hard time believing the Lions had the same role for him in mind as a 7rd pick. Either bad pick, or not living up to expectations.
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