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Game Day Week 11 vs. Browns (4-5)
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Who wins?
Browns
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
Hornby
62%
 62%  [ 15 ]
Villains' Fantasy Team
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
CARP
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 24

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INbengalfan


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 5639
Location: Richmond, IN
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hokie wrote:
Beck Bristow wrote:


You guys are all serious. Relax.


When you think about it, Dalton is one of the most polarizing players this team has ever had, which really says something once you consider Chad, Palmer, Dillon, Pickens, etc. By no means am I saying Dalton has a bad attitude, just that people tend to have a strong opinion about him either way.

It's weird, because on other sports message boards I frequent, I'm usually the guy who makes dumb jokes... so yeah, this is just something else I can blame Dalton for; I've turned into one of those "serious guys" because of him! It's all his fault! Stupid Dalton...

That was sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious.


It's what mediocrity breeds... this polarizing force you speak of
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 3373
Location: London, England, UK
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hokie wrote:
Beck Bristow wrote:


You guys are all serious. Relax.


When you think about it, Dalton is one of the most polarizing players this team has ever had,


Agree 'Hokie',

The most incredible thing for me personally throughout this whole Dalton debate, is the fact that he is already in many ways the most successful QB we've had through the door in the last 25 years. He's 26-17, taken us to the play-offs his first 2 years, and is on the verge of making it 3 for 3.

It might not be the success level we all want, and he is far from perfect, but he is an important member of a very good young Bengal team.
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theJ


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Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 18931
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

INbengalfan wrote:
Hokie wrote:
Beck Bristow wrote:


You guys are all serious. Relax.


When you think about it, Dalton is one of the most polarizing players this team has ever had, which really says something once you consider Chad, Palmer, Dillon, Pickens, etc. By no means am I saying Dalton has a bad attitude, just that people tend to have a strong opinion about him either way.

It's weird, because on other sports message boards I frequent, I'm usually the guy who makes dumb jokes... so yeah, this is just something else I can blame Dalton for; I've turned into one of those "serious guys" because of him! It's all his fault! Stupid Dalton...

That was sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious.


It's what mediocrity breeds... this polarizing force you speak of

I think what it is, is two competing schools out thought. Fix it up and make it work, or try again and hope the next one is better and not worse. I'll draw an analogy.

You buy a new car, and it runs fine for the first 50,000 miles. A few mechanical problems, but not bad. Then at the 50,000 mile mark things start popping up. Head gasket blows, new fuel pump, car starts making weird noises. It has trouble starting sometimes. Some days it runs great. Other days not so much.

Some people would try and dig deeper, figure out the root problems and fix them. Other people don't have any interest in digging deeper and would rather sell it and buy new. A third group exists that sees (or think they see) the root problem and would rather just not mess with it.

I'm in that first group - others are in the second or third. Until a problem comes along that makes the broken thing scrap, the two groups won't agree.
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Carson4MVP


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 1690
Location: Hilliard
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
INbengalfan wrote:
Hokie wrote:
Beck Bristow wrote:


You guys are all serious. Relax.


When you think about it, Dalton is one of the most polarizing players this team has ever had, which really says something once you consider Chad, Palmer, Dillon, Pickens, etc. By no means am I saying Dalton has a bad attitude, just that people tend to have a strong opinion about him either way.

It's weird, because on other sports message boards I frequent, I'm usually the guy who makes dumb jokes... so yeah, this is just something else I can blame Dalton for; I've turned into one of those "serious guys" because of him! It's all his fault! Stupid Dalton...

That was sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious.


It's what mediocrity breeds... this polarizing force you speak of

I think what it is, is two competing schools out thought. Fix it up and make it work, or try again and hope the next one is better and not worse. I'll draw an analogy.

You buy a new car, and it runs fine for the first 50,000 miles. A few mechanical problems, but not bad. Then at the 50,000 mile mark things start popping up. Head gasket blows, new fuel pump, car starts making weird noises. It has trouble starting sometimes. Some days it runs great. Other days not so much.

Some people would try and dig deeper, figure out the root problems and fix them. Other people don't have any interest in digging deeper and would rather sell it and buy new. A third group exists that sees (or think they see) the root problem and would rather just not mess with it.

I'm in that first group - others are in the second or third. Until a problem comes along that makes the broken thing scrap, the two groups won't agree.


This is a good analogy, but you are forgetting the part where the person got fired from 2 jobs(playoffs) because said car wouldn't start and made the person miss critical meetings. That is an important part in the equation to decide to move on from this car. If it consistently causes you to miss big meetings, I think it is an easy decision to make.
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Beck Bristow


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Joined: 17 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
INbengalfan wrote:
Hokie wrote:
Beck Bristow wrote:


You guys are all serious. Relax.


When you think about it, Dalton is one of the most polarizing players this team has ever had, which really says something once you consider Chad, Palmer, Dillon, Pickens, etc. By no means am I saying Dalton has a bad attitude, just that people tend to have a strong opinion about him either way.

It's weird, because on other sports message boards I frequent, I'm usually the guy who makes dumb jokes... so yeah, this is just something else I can blame Dalton for; I've turned into one of those "serious guys" because of him! It's all his fault! Stupid Dalton...

That was sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious.


It's what mediocrity breeds... this polarizing force you speak of

I think what it is, is two competing schools out thought. Fix it up and make it work, or try again and hope the next one is better and not worse. I'll draw an analogy.

You buy a new car, and it runs fine for the first 50,000 miles. A few mechanical problems, but not bad. Then at the 50,000 mile mark things start popping up. Head gasket blows, new fuel pump, car starts making weird noises. It has trouble starting sometimes. Some days it runs great. Other days not so much.

Some people would try and dig deeper, figure out the root problems and fix them. Other people don't have any interest in digging deeper and would rather sell it and buy new. A third group exists that sees (or think they see) the root problem and would rather just not mess with it.

I'm in that first group - others are in the second or third. Until a problem comes along that makes the broken thing scrap, the two groups won't agree.


Your new car is much less likely to be a piece of crap than your new qb. If there was a guaranteed upgrade as easy as getting a new car I think we would all be in favor of it.
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theJ


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Joined: 20 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All analogies break down when you analyze them.

Carson4MVP wrote:
This is a good analogy, but you are forgetting the part where the person got fired from 2 jobs(playoffs) because said car wouldn't start and made the person miss critical meetings. That is an important part in the equation to decide to move on from this car. If it consistently causes you to miss big meetings, I think it is an easy decision to make.

Yes, that's one possible outcome. The other is that the car is fixed, runs gloriously and you never miss a meeting again. Another is that you replace with a new car and it has its own problems that make you miss meetings. Tons of scenarios.

But again, all analogies break down when you really study them.
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Anonymous3


Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 1906
Location: IU
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LondonBengal wrote:
Hokie wrote:
Beck Bristow wrote:


You guys are all serious. Relax.


When you think about it, Dalton is one of the most polarizing players this team has ever had,


Agree 'Hokie',

The most incredible thing for me personally throughout this whole Dalton debate, is the fact that he is already in many ways the most successful QB we've had through the door in the last 25 years. He's 26-17, taken us to the play-offs his first 2 years, and is on the verge of making it 3 for 3.

It might not be the success level we all want, and he is far from perfect, but he is an important member of a very good young Bengal team.


This is also the most successful team we've had in the past 25 years, from top to bottom. Just as it can't all be on Dalton when we lose, it can't be all on him when we win. A win record is not reason to be satisfied with your QB, but a reason to justify him.
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Carson4MVP


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 1690
Location: Hilliard
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous3 wrote:
LondonBengal wrote:
Hokie wrote:
Beck Bristow wrote:


You guys are all serious. Relax.


When you think about it, Dalton is one of the most polarizing players this team has ever had,


Agree 'Hokie',

The most incredible thing for me personally throughout this whole Dalton debate, is the fact that he is already in many ways the most successful QB we've had through the door in the last 25 years. He's 26-17, taken us to the play-offs his first 2 years, and is on the verge of making it 3 for 3.

It might not be the success level we all want, and he is far from perfect, but he is an important member of a very good young Bengal team.


This is also the most successful team we've had in the past 25 years, from top to bottom. Just as it can't all be on Dalton when we lose, it can't be all on him when we win. A win record is not reason to be satisfied with your QB, but a reason to justify him.


You just don't get it Anonymous, when the Bengals win it is solely Andy Dalton. When he plays bad, its because the play calling, offensive line, wide receivers, running game, the other teams defensive backs for rudely cutting in front of our guy and catching a pass that wasn't intended for him and not stopping until they score, the weather, the hang nails fault or Marvin Lewis's.
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 3373
Location: London, England, UK
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous3 wrote:
LondonBengal wrote:
Hokie wrote:
Beck Bristow wrote:


You guys are all serious. Relax.


When you think about it, Dalton is one of the most polarizing players this team has ever had,


Agree 'Hokie',

The most incredible thing for me personally throughout this whole Dalton debate, is the fact that he is already in many ways the most successful QB we've had through the door in the last 25 years. He's 26-17, taken us to the play-offs his first 2 years, and is on the verge of making it 3 for 3.

It might not be the success level we all want, and he is far from perfect, but he is an important member of a very good young Bengal team.


This is also the most successful team we've had in the past 25 years, from top to bottom. Just as it can't all be on Dalton when we lose, it can't be all on him when we win. A win record is not reason to be satisfied with your QB, but a reason to justify him.


True.

I don't think even Daltons' most ardent supporter would be 'satisfied' with him. Having said that I believe some of his biggest supporters are the Bengal coaches, and they will be pushing him all the time.

Its a judgement call on whether you keep a winning formula with a 'streaky' up and down QB who you know pretty much what your going to get over a season, or roll the dice with a new QB probably through the draft, with a relatively uncertain outcome.

I would take a draftee next April if one was there good enough to challenge Dalton as back-up, (none of the vet FA QB's likely available look any good to me). I would also look to find a fresh QB coach to work on him; I for one think there is plenty of improvement to be had with AD yet.
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 3373
Location: London, England, UK
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
You just don't get it Anonymous, when the Bengals win it is solely Andy Dalton. When he plays bad, its because the play calling, offensive line, wide receivers, running game, the other teams defensive backs for rudely cutting in front of our guy and catching a pass that wasn't intended for him and not stopping until they score, the weather, the hang nails fault or Marvin Lewis's.


If you're suggesting that's what I or others who generally like what Dalton has achieved believe, then its completely wrong; and I think you know nobody really has that view.

You know there are all kinds of reasons why teams win and lose games, and we all contribute on this site to talk about it.
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johndeere1707


Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 6010
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame the play calling a lot of the time with Dalton because he can't execute certain plays. Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but to me about 90% of Dalton's interceptions have been throwing the comeback out route to AJ Green. Dalton either is late, throws it too far inside, or his pass is too weak to make it there. I absolutely hate it when they call that play, yet they insist on going back to it time after time. Dalton cannot throw the comeback route.

The thing Dalton needs to develop is a pump fake. Defenders jump his routes all the time because he locks onto one receiver and forces is to him. That would open up so much for him in my opinion. Drew Bree's does it all the time.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but I rarely see Dalton pump fake. Another thing that ticks me off about Dalton is his pocket presence. He has no concept of the term "throw away". He takes so many sacks it's unbelievable. I understand our interior Oline is less than stellar, but my goodness just throw it away and move on to the next one.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
You just don't get it Anonymous, when the Bengals win it is solely Andy Dalton. When he plays bad, its because the play calling, offensive line, wide receivers, running game, the other teams defensive backs for rudely cutting in front of our guy and catching a pass that wasn't intended for him and not stopping until they score, the weather, the hang nails fault or Marvin Lewis's.


We were finally having a somewhat intelligent conversation...then you instigate. Why? Just...why?
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INbengalfan


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 5639
Location: Richmond, IN
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
You just don't get it Anonymous, when the Bengals win it is solely Andy Dalton. When he plays bad, its because the play calling, offensive line, wide receivers, running game, the other teams defensive backs for rudely cutting in front of our guy and catching a pass that wasn't intended for him and not stopping until they score, the weather, the hang nails fault or Marvin Lewis's.


Who is this one directed at, because if it's me, I'm taking you task on it.

let me say it ONE MORE TIME for those who want to selectively choose stats or quotes to bolster their argument.....

When this team wins, it's usually because the defense/special teams steps up and makes huge plays. When we lose, it probably is due to the defense not pitching a shutout. This is due to the wildly inconsistent offense, which can be attributed to bad play calling (Marvin in this case, and if someone wants to challenge that Marvin doesn't reign in Gruden's play-calling, we can start a new thread), the play of our quarterback, and the equally inconsistent offensive line, which breaks down far more often than PFW stats would indicate and allows too much pressure in the face of the aforementioned inconsistent quarterback?

Does that cover it for you?


Or should we have the first ever FF forum battle royale?
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theJ


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

INbengalfan wrote:
Who is this one directed at, because if it's me, I'm taking you task on it.

If i had to guess, it was directed at LondonBengal. But it was a pretty poor attempt at sarcasm, and it's only going to get people riled up.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We still arguing about Dalton? Laughing

What we need to do is just get the ball in Gio's hands more. Guy is amazing. Maybe some more end arounds and bubble screens to Hawkins as well. We haven't utilized Baby Hawk enough...
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skywindO2 wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Should see some Orlovsky vs Manziel this week in the battle of "who's less aware of their surroundings"

Orlovsky has too much experience here. Manziel doesn't stand a chance.
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