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Kansas City Chiefs vs Denver Broncos GDT
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kcstomp63


Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:
@ 2a yes this has been trending and it's worrisome! Manning does an amazing job so if it was just this game I'd be less concerned.. but Tuel wasn't hit last game either!

@ 2b Manning eats zone for breakfast. I liked (and still prefer) the press.. I thought they simply failed to execute their jams consistently.


I prefer the press man as well. However, when you know that is what you are going to get every time, it makes your pre-snap read a lot easier.

Throw one zone coverage in during each series to see if you can get a TO. I noticed the Chiefs were showing single high safety a lot and then running someone back into a two-safety look. The thing is, it was happening too soon and Manning was catching on.
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valkrei


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
@ 2a yes this has been trending and it's worrisome! Manning does an amazing job so if it was just this game I'd be less concerned.. but Tuel wasn't hit last game either!

@ 2b Manning eats zone for breakfast. I liked (and still prefer) the press.. I thought they simply failed to execute their jams consistently.


you gotta show some zone, to try and get some pass rush though. Play man all game and he's ball out in 2.5 or less every play. Can't get there in that amount of time.

Yes we need WRs bad. Avery and McCluster suck at getting open and getting separation for being such fast and quick guys. Plus Avery can't catch worth beans. He's gotta catch it when Alex hits him down the field cause we don't do it often and we need to take advantage. Need 5 new WRs next year. Hopefully something like Bowe, Maclin, Lee, random, random, hemingway (teams beast)


How many drops did Bowe have?
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kcstomp63 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
@ 2a yes this has been trending and it's worrisome! Manning does an amazing job so if it was just this game I'd be less concerned.. but Tuel wasn't hit last game either!

@ 2b Manning eats zone for breakfast. I liked (and still prefer) the press.. I thought they simply failed to execute their jams consistently.


I prefer the press man as well. However, when you know that is what you are going to get every time, it makes your pre-snap read a lot easier.

Throw one zone coverage in during each series to see if you can get a TO. I noticed the Chiefs were showing single high safety a lot and then running someone back into a two-safety look. The thing is, it was happening too soon and Manning was catching on.


They did mix in a few (the almost pick 6 was a zone coverage route jump) zone calls. Yes the press makes pre-snap easy.. but it makes the post snap read harder. The WR still has to "win" his route and Manning still has to find that guy. In a zone.. he already has a great idea pre-snap where he's going with the ball because he just doesn't get fooled enough. I think the press all game was fine if they execute the jams better. Denver's guys are good too though.. they beat our CB's for a couple plays (Cooper vs DT) and then rub routes opened up a number of others. They YAC'd us a lot.
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samsel23


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kcstomp63 wrote:
Just my observations...

1.) Like we have known for a while...we need some WR. I want Marquise Lee something fierce, but that won't happen.

2a.) Pass rush has disappeared in these last three games. Not a good sign. Manning was getting the ball out extremely quick.

2b.) I know press man is our forte, but I didn't feel like we mixed up our coverages all that much. I think this was a game where Sutton wanted to "do what we do" and see where we are with that. I fully expect them to mix in more zone in two weeks.

3.) I was really impressed with Knile Davis last night. He looked really good while in the game. Ran with a purpose. Caught the ball well. Hopefully, he continues to get 5-7 touches a game moving forward.

4.) Our offensive line struggled...again.

5.) It was good to see Sanders Commings in the game and make a play early.

6.) Although it wasn't all that successful, I applaud the efforts of Alex Smith to push the ball down the field. If we can complete a couple of those type passes a game, it will really open things up for the run game, screens, etc because the D will be loosened up a bit.

7.) Hoping that this team got a wake up call last night. We will have to play well next week at home. It would be a major let down if we had a "hangover" from this game and don't take care of business against San Diego. Huge game.


Really agree with #6. I hope the lack of success doesn't stop him from here on out. He's accuracy was shady(the high pass to Bowe would have been a touchdown on his inside pad), but I want to continue to see this.


Jordan Matthews for the win BTW
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valkrei wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
@ 2a yes this has been trending and it's worrisome! Manning does an amazing job so if it was just this game I'd be less concerned.. but Tuel wasn't hit last game either!

@ 2b Manning eats zone for breakfast. I liked (and still prefer) the press.. I thought they simply failed to execute their jams consistently.


you gotta show some zone, to try and get some pass rush though. Play man all game and he's ball out in 2.5 or less every play. Can't get there in that amount of time.

Yes we need WRs bad. Avery and McCluster suck at getting open and getting separation for being such fast and quick guys. Plus Avery can't catch worth beans. He's gotta catch it when Alex hits him down the field cause we don't do it often and we need to take advantage. Need 5 new WRs next year. Hopefully something like Bowe, Maclin, Lee, random, random, hemingway (teams beast)


How many drops did Bowe have?


what does that have to do with anything?
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RVM I think he's asking why you aren't including Bowe in your part about WRs. As a team this entire week we should be making the WRs catch an extra 100 balls a day from the jugs machine. If we drop half the passes (particularly the one Charles dropped when it was almost surely a TD) it's a whole different ball game.

Also, I'm sorry I know I might be an outlier on this one, but Kendrick Lewis is terrible. The guy takes bad angles, and when he is actually in position to make a play he gives up at least another 5 yards because he is slow to move in and make it. On the long play that Cooper got burned, Lewis looked to almost come to a job before making the tackle, and you can certainly tell he's still shy about the shoulder. That's a position I think we need a clear upgrade in this off-season.

Any word on Fisher or Asamoah?

We better not look too far ahead, remember the Chargers always play us tough, they are the only other team to hold the Donks under 30...we need to come out an hammer them so we aren't going into the second Denver game on a 2 game skid.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we lost. Sad

But that's okay, this is a team that I never thought would have 9 wins so we've won the season in my book.

Disappointed in the offense. 1 minute left and you're trying to score so Smith dumps it to Charles...what? I was so ticked off, what QB does that? Are you srs? Who cares if you throw an Interception at that point the game is over anyways. Then he takes those awful sacks that push us out of field goal range. Felt like Charlie Brown. Hoping DoReido aren't saddling up all their hopes to this horse. We definitely need Receivers pronto, and a couple linemen too.

Defense played very well, pass rush was not getting there and that was concerning. In fact it hasn't gotten there in a few games now. The culprit imo is that they're overworked. Hali-Poe-Houston play all the snaps and its starting to show as the season wears on. Poe is getting absolutely zero push in the pass game, while being singleblocked. We have to find interior pass rushers somewhere to give our guys some rest. Had a feeling playing this many snaps was gonna be a mistake.

Basically how I sum this game up would be our weaknesses were exploited, and our strengths did not shine through. Clutch players did not make the plays they usually make. Defense seemed timid too, Flowers was really the only one showing much fire like we're used too but that's been his MO his whole life. Maybe it was that mile high air? Or they hung out with Bowe too much I don't know.

Better team won last night, now lets kick in Rivers creeper stache next week.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good game guys. You definitely looked the part on defense. Alex took his shots, so I'm sure it was at least nice to see him open it up a bit. Looking forward to the rematch.

Enjoy sacking Rivers next week.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the Pass Rush, how many times do you remember them rushing more than 3? It was noticeable in the 2nd half how few times we rushed more than 3. I understand not blitzing Manning, but rushing 3 on 5 is not a recipe for success against Manning.

And I do not think you have to mix zone coverages in. On most plays, our DB's immediately retreated off the LOS, where when you jam, you go forward first. Just a half a second of disruption would have added 2-3 sacks last night. And if you're rushing only 3, you've got a lot of guys dropping into coverage to prevent a big play if you miss on the jam. That would cause opportunities for INT's as well as help on the pick plays, as its hard to get a pick timed correctly if at least one guy is getting jammed.

And yes, we need receivers that don't drop balls, and who can get separation easier, or are so big Alex can just throw it up to them like an ASJ or Mike Evans.
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chiefs82


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes me wonder how a healthy and still on roster Moeaki would have fared last night and this season.
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PFF refocused

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/18/refo-chiefs-broncos-week-11/

Some quotes:

Quote:
- The Chiefs got pressure on just 6-of-40 Denver dropbacks.


Quote:
Nobody has graded out better than Peyton Manning in our system this year. But for as good as heís been, that doesnít mean we can just look at box scores and assume they tell the whole story. Yes 300 yard plus passing days are nice, but with just three completions over 10 yards in the air all game it was hardly vintage from Manning (-1.3).


Quote:
The previously gun shy Alex Smith (+1.6) would attempt 14 passes over 10 yards in the air and the biggest shame was that his receivers (four drops, three of them critical) couldnít make the catches to give Smith that stat to go with his excellent throws. These four drops donít even include his peach of a throw that bested the coverage of Chris Harris with 8:25 to go in Q2 (the play was called back for holding away from the target), where Smith fitted it in between the sideline and Harris only for Bowe to drop.


Take note.. just 3 completions in the air over ten yards from Manning. Throwing deep isn't the end all be all! Get the ball to your playmakers! Good playmakers make big plays with those touches! (see SNF week 11)

Also note.. Alex did throw deep a lot and while Ifor one don't need a ton of that every game.. I do like that they showed at least from the QB side of it.. ability. Skill positions need to step the hell up!
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
RVM I think he's asking why you aren't including Bowe in your part about WRs. As a team this entire week we should be making the WRs catch an extra 100 balls a day from the jugs machine. If we drop half the passes (particularly the one Charles dropped when it was almost surely a TD) it's a whole different ball game.

Also, I'm sorry I know I might be an outlier on this one, but Kendrick Lewis is terrible. The guy takes bad angles, and when he is actually in position to make a play he gives up at least another 5 yards because he is slow to move in and make it. On the long play that Cooper got burned, Lewis looked to almost come to a job before making the tackle, and you can certainly tell he's still shy about the shoulder. That's a position I think we need a clear upgrade in this off-season.

Any word on Fisher or Asamoah?

We better not look too far ahead, remember the Chargers always play us tough, they are the only other team to hold the Donks under 30...we need to come out an hammer them so we aren't going into the second Denver game on a 2 game skid.


for one Bowe has proven to be a #1 WR in the NFL. #2 we just signed him to a 5 year 55 mil deal or whatever. He's obviously not going anywhere for a few years
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:

Quote:
The previously gun shy Alex Smith (+1.6) would attempt 14 passes over 10 yards in the air and the biggest shame was that his receivers (four drops, three of them critical) couldnít make the catches to give Smith that stat to go with his excellent throws. These four drops donít even include his peach of a throw that bested the coverage of Chris Harris with 8:25 to go in Q2 (the play was called back for holding away from the target), where Smith fitted it in between the sideline and Harris only for Bowe to drop.


Take note.. just 3 completions in the air over ten yards from Manning. Throwing deep isn't the end all be all! Get the ball to your playmakers! Good playmakers make big plays with those touches! (see SNF week 11)

Also note.. Alex did throw deep a lot and while Ifor one don't need a ton of that every game.. I do like that they showed at least from the QB side of it.. ability. Skill positions need to step the hell up!


See, I think we started the game with the right mentality offensively. Going deep and showing a willingness to throw downfield early was absolutely necessary. And lo and behold, our run game had more room than it typically has this season. The problem was that we didn't take advantage of throwing early by then turning to a balanced attack.

I haven't spoken too much about my take from the game, but I think it's a good sign that there are some plays we can look back to and think, if we had made those, this would have really been a game. If we didn't miss certain tackles or drop certain balls and so on, thinks would have gone differently. Because it shows we can hang with the big guys like Denver, but we're just not quite ready to do what is necessary to really play a full, quality game against a team that good. And I think that's unsurprising. I think most of us thought that was about where we were. A good team, but a young, inexperienced one, still. I do like, too, that even without a pass rush, we gave Denver far more trouble offensively than any other team they've played. Indy and Jacksonville had some good moments, but they needed big turnovers to even make it a game against Denver's O. We went toe to toe and straight held them, at times. They got theirs, but we got ours. I'm interested to see what Sutton takes from this.
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valkrei


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
valkrei wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
@ 2a yes this has been trending and it's worrisome! Manning does an amazing job so if it was just this game I'd be less concerned.. but Tuel wasn't hit last game either!

@ 2b Manning eats zone for breakfast. I liked (and still prefer) the press.. I thought they simply failed to execute their jams consistently.


you gotta show some zone, to try and get some pass rush though. Play man all game and he's ball out in 2.5 or less every play. Can't get there in that amount of time.

Yes we need WRs bad. Avery and McCluster suck at getting open and getting separation for being such fast and quick guys. Plus Avery can't catch worth beans. He's gotta catch it when Alex hits him down the field cause we don't do it often and we need to take advantage. Need 5 new WRs next year. Hopefully something like Bowe, Maclin, Lee, random, random, hemingway (teams beast)


How many drops did Bowe have?


what does that have to do with anything?


your not picking on bowe and yes he had a few nice catches but he dropped twice as many. Bowe should not be a NFL #1 WR.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valkrei wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
valkrei wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
@ 2a yes this has been trending and it's worrisome! Manning does an amazing job so if it was just this game I'd be less concerned.. but Tuel wasn't hit last game either!

@ 2b Manning eats zone for breakfast. I liked (and still prefer) the press.. I thought they simply failed to execute their jams consistently.


you gotta show some zone, to try and get some pass rush though. Play man all game and he's ball out in 2.5 or less every play. Can't get there in that amount of time.

Yes we need WRs bad. Avery and McCluster suck at getting open and getting separation for being such fast and quick guys. Plus Avery can't catch worth beans. He's gotta catch it when Alex hits him down the field cause we don't do it often and we need to take advantage. Need 5 new WRs next year. Hopefully something like Bowe, Maclin, Lee, random, random, hemingway (teams beast)


How many drops did Bowe have?


what does that have to do with anything?


your not picking on bowe and yes he had a few nice catches but he dropped twice as many. Bowe should not be a NFL #1 WR.


I never said Bowe was good either, but he does absolutely get more benefit of the doubt than the other guys on the team.
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