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2014 NFCE Discussion Thread II
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RollEagles


Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 6742
Location: Basel, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I chest thumped about the Phillies winning the World Series a few years ago and point to Ryan Howard, it would be like the chest thumping by Giants fans about the Super Bowl wins and pointing to Eli Manning.

In both cases, it doesn't change the fact that currently, the Giants aren't anything to brag about just like the Phillies.
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RollEagles


Joined: 10 Jan 2012
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Location: Basel, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Hey our team sucks right now but how about that World Series win in 2008."



I mean, come on. That just seems desperate.
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Hammertime52


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 9597
Location: South Jersey
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RollEagles wrote:
"Hey our team sucks right now but how about that World Series win in 2008."



I mean, come on. That just seems desperate.




Spot on Roll Laughing
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 20311
Location: RI/MA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those very points you posted were just proven false by your fellow Eagles fan who stated clearly it's an "unbeatable card". The fact that you don't personally believe it's attributable to the trash talking discussion is fine. I didn't know trash talking had such formal criteria to follow. We really don't need to get creative with it and attack Mccoy or Chip Kelly. Personally I rather like them both. I think you guys have a bright future and could possibly nab that Lombardi soon. So yea... I'm gonna use the trump card while it's in my hand cause it won't be there forever whether you feel it's "irrelevant" doesn't really matter. The Parcels Super Bowls... yes...irrelevant. Your friend using the Skins SB...irrelevant. The Cowboy fans flashing their 5....irrelevant. A SB 3 seasons ago... most of the core players from the team still in blue.... yes...relevant.
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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Location: RI/MA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RollEagles wrote:
"Hey our team sucks right now but how about that World Series win in 2008."



I mean, come on. That just seems desperate.


How many of those 2008 Phillies are still on the team?
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Poloc2289


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3895
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
Those very points you posted were just proven false by your fellow Eagles fan who stated clearly it's an "unbeatable card". The fact that you don't personally believe it's attributable to the trash talking discussion is fine. I didn't know trash talking had such formal criteria to follow. We really don't need to get creative with it and attack Mccoy or Chip Kelly. Personally I rather like them both. I think you guys have a bright future and could possibly nab that Lombardi soon. So yea... I'm gonna use the trump card while it's in my hand cause it won't be there forever whether you feel it's "irrelevant" doesn't really matter. The Parcels Super Bowls... yes...irrelevant. Your friend using the Skins SB...irrelevant. The Cowboy fans flashing their 5....irrelevant. A SB 3 seasons ago... most of the core players from the team still in blue.... yes...relevant.


I stated that there was no sense in arguing whether it was a trump card. It's all opinion.
I don't believe it is because it is irreleveant to what we are discussing. Thereby using it is just a case of a classic non-sequiter and makes me believe you are losing.

There is no formal criteria for trash talking. Although I'm certain there is a quality aspect to trash talking.
Some trash talking is better than others. Some trash talking is worse than others. I personally believe that the more creative the trash talk, the more exciting it is.

Also you say there's no criteria and yet you say those other people bringing up their long ago won SB's is irrelevant. Well you must be determining that based on some kind of criteria, no?

And to answer your question, a significant part of that Phillies team, mainly field players, are still on the team.
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RollEagles


Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 6742
Location: Basel, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
RollEagles wrote:
"Hey our team sucks right now but how about that World Series win in 2008."



I mean, come on. That just seems desperate.


How many of those 2008 Phillies are still on the team?

Jimmy Rollins
Chase Utley
Carlos Ruiz
Ryan Howard
Cole Hamels

Essentially, the "bulk" of the star power from that team is still expected to make major contributions this year.
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willruggiano


Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: Brian Dawkins, "I'll always be an Eagle."
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RollEagles wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
RollEagles wrote:
"Hey our team sucks right now but how about that World Series win in 2008."



I mean, come on. That just seems desperate.


How many of those 2008 Phillies are still on the team?

Jimmy Rollins
Chase Utley
Carlos Ruiz
Ryan Howard
Cole Hamels

Essentially, the "bulk" of the star power from that team is still expected to make major contributions this year.

don't forget Kyle Kendrick Cool
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Gmen


Joined: 20 Jul 2007
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Location: Myyyyy precioussss
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really hurt by these attacks on my integrity and character. If I do post less in here when the Giants are performing poorly, it's subconscious. That said, I feel most of these accusations stem from people simply missing my posts. Someone should start taking attendance.
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Jroc04


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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Location: South Jersey
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
Jroc04 wrote:

We were talking current state of Eli. And although I consider him a good QB, he's got an up hill battle to get anywhere near a Super Bowl again. He's still turnover prone and it doesn't look like the FO is helping him otherwise.


Eli's always been turnover prone. Didn't prevent us from winning two Lombardi's with him. As much as he can be a doofus and make dumb throws and mistakes, he can also be damn near perfect at times. Question usually is which Eli shows up. He's very hot/cold. Last year was the worst he's played ever. But do I believe it's a downward turn? No I believe he will recover this season. The FO isn't helping him? 3 new O-lineman, a new RB, a new OC, and bringing back Manningham isn't helping him?


Thats because an elite pass rush can bail a QB out like that.

Schwartz is the only move that I see working out. A new OC in Eli's 12th(?) year? Learning the west coast offense? Without a TE? No, I don't call that helping. And personally, keeping Coughljn around isn't helping him either. Letting go Nicks and bringing back Manningham also not helping. Cruz is the only threat.

Letting go Tuck and Joseph without any plan to replace them is not helping him at all. So, no. I don't see the FO helping him overall. I'll take Tuck and Joseph over DRC and McClain anyday.

Counting on the draft is a terrible way to start a year.
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Poloc2289


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3895
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
I am really hurt by these attacks on my integrity and character. If I do post less in here when the Giants are performing poorly, it's subconscious. That said, I feel most of these accusations stem from people simply missing my posts. Someone should start taking attendance.


That seems unlikely as posting a message on a forum seems to necessitate a certain level of consciousness.
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rememberthevet


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 1538
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RollEagles wrote:
If I chest thumped about the Phillies winning the World Series a few years ago and point to Ryan Howard, it would be like the chest thumping by Giants fans about the Super Bowl wins and pointing to Eli Manning.

In both cases, it doesn't change the fact that currently, the Giants aren't anything to brag about just like the Phillies.


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rememberthevet


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
RollEagles wrote:
"Hey our team sucks right now but how about that World Series win in 2008."

I mean, come on. That just seems desperate.


How many of those 2008 Phillies are still on the team?

Proportionally speaking, the Phillies have more players left from their 2008 World Series win than the Giants have left from their 2011 Superbowl, so......

Laughing
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Last edited by rememberthevet on Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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Location: RI/MA
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rememberthevet wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
RollEagles wrote:
"Hey our team sucks right now but how about that World Series win in 2008."

I mean, come on. That just seems desperate.


How many of those 2008 Phillies are still on the team?

Proportionally speaking, the Phillies have more players left from their 2011 World Series win than the Giants have left from their 2011 Superbowl, so......

Laughing





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Last edited by Shockey1979 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jroc04 wrote:
Thats because an elite pass rush can bail a QB out like that.


That "elite pass rush" was 26th in the league in 2011 in sacks. Eli and the passing game carried that team through the regular season. Then he went on to have a nearly flawless postseason run to the Lombardi. The defense and the running game certainly stepped up their game in the postseason as well but the only constant that year was the passing game.


Jroc04 wrote:
Schwartz is the only move that I see working out. A new OC in Eli's 12th(?) year? Learning the west coast offense? Without a TE? No, I don't call that helping. And personally, keeping Coughljn around isn't helping him either. Letting go Nicks and bringing back Manningham also not helping. Cruz is the only threat.


Schwartz I think will be a stud for us. I believe Jerry will take over Snee's position by the end of the preseason. He's a highly rated run blocker. Pugh on the right and Beatty on the left are solid. The only question right now is Center. Walton isn't starting material in my book. We will see what other moves they make once the June 1st cuts come.

A new OC is exactly what our offense needed. Gilbride's relentless stubbornness to change an old and stale vertical passing offense was infuriating. The whole scheme was predicated on option routes and "WR behavior" as cues to what route he was going to run, was resulting in way to many miscommunications between Eli and the wideouts. Nicks was a big problem in this regard. Last season he was consistently running the wrong routes, or giving up on routes early resulting in picks. Whether Mcadoo runs a true West Coast or not remains to be seen. All indications so far is that he will run an offense tailored to Eli's strengths:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/27/ben-mcadoo-offense-will-be-tailored-to-elis-strengths/ I am hoping this means a heavy dose of hurry up because that is when Eli is at his best.
I agree we need a stud TE. Rumors are we are waiting to sign Finley when he comes available or are targeting Ebron, Jenkins, or Amaro. We also still have Robinson on the roster who hasn't really gotten a shot to prove his worth yet. But yes this is a huge glaring weakness right now.


Jroc04 wrote:
Letting go Tuck and Joseph without any plan to replace them is not helping him at all. So, no. I don't see the FO helping him overall. I'll take Tuck and Joseph over DRC and McClain anyday.


Losing Tuck isn't that big of a deal because we have Kiwanuka and Moore. Tuck has been a shell of himself since that shoulder injury. He was playing really well towards the end of last season but he doesn't have much left in the tank. JPP and Moore are the future starting ends for us. Joseph on the other hand really hurts and I think it was a mistake letting him walk. But we drafted Hankins last year as his replacement and Jenkins played well. Need more depth at this position though.

Jroc04 wrote:
Counting on the draft is a terrible way to start a year.


Free agency is far from over. June 1st cuts still to come. Then draft. We will see what the actual Giants roster looks like before we claim they are "counting on the draft". Most of us Giants fans are very happy with the offseason we've had. It's been a while since we've been this active. I think most of the moves were solid and either added a solid starter or depth for a great price. Yes we had some losses to overcome but I feel this team is much better now then it was last year.
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