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Is Jay Cutler the guy?
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VeniceBearsFan


Joined: 15 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Watching Alex Smith is an argument for resigning Cutler.

Great defense, talented offense and a game manager QB.

And they are totally out of the game once a good team in then Broncos scores 20 points.


I don’t think you can compare the Chiefs weapons to ours…Charles is quality but no one on the outside is better than Marshall, Alshon or Martellus…also Trestman’s scheme is better than Reid’s…

One thing I just can’t get away from is thinking Trestman could take a QB and do the same as Sean Payton did with Drew Brees…Brees was a distinctly average QB during his time in San Diego…he goes to NO and Payton’s scheme makes him look like a possible hall of famer…Payton is a guy who went to Trestman for advice on implementing that scheme…again maybe I have too much faith in Trestman but I just think he could make it work with less of a talented QB which would give us the resources to improve in other areas.


I'm more impressed with what Trestman has done with Mccown than with Cutler. I feel like a few seasons ago if Cutler went down we wouldn't have the competence offensively to still win football games. Trestman's scheme and coaching was able to press 2 wins out of Mccown and this injury ridden Bears team.
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KG1187


Joined: 16 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Watching Alex Smith is an argument for resigning Cutler.

Great defense, talented offense and a game manager QB.

And they are totally out of the game once a good team in then Broncos scores 20 points.


I don’t think you can compare the Chiefs weapons to ours…Charles is quality but no one on the outside is better than Marshall, Alshon or Martellus…also Trestman’s scheme is better than Reid’s…

One thing I just can’t get away from is thinking Trestman could take a QB and do the same as Sean Payton did with Drew Brees…Brees was a distinctly average QB during his time in San Diego…he goes to NO and Payton’s scheme makes him look like a possible hall of famer…Payton is a guy who went to Trestman for advice on implementing that scheme…again maybe I have too much faith in Trestman but I just think he could make it work with less of a talented QB which would give us the resources to improve in other areas.



Not so sure about Brees being average before Sean Payton. Averaging out Brees numbers in SD makes him look average but its clear the light went on for Brees his last two seasons under Marty Schottenheimer with 51/22 TD/ INTs. That was 04 and 05 before the NFL went pass crazy post labor lockout.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KG1187 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Watching Alex Smith is an argument for resigning Cutler.

Great defense, talented offense and a game manager QB.

And they are totally out of the game once a good team in then Broncos scores 20 points.


I don’t think you can compare the Chiefs weapons to ours…Charles is quality but no one on the outside is better than Marshall, Alshon or Martellus…also Trestman’s scheme is better than Reid’s…

One thing I just can’t get away from is thinking Trestman could take a QB and do the same as Sean Payton did with Drew Brees…Brees was a distinctly average QB during his time in San Diego…he goes to NO and Payton’s scheme makes him look like a possible hall of famer…Payton is a guy who went to Trestman for advice on implementing that scheme…again maybe I have too much faith in Trestman but I just think he could make it work with less of a talented QB which would give us the resources to improve in other areas.



Not so sure about Brees being average before Sean Payton. Averaging out Brees numbers in SD makes him look average but its clear the light went on for Brees his last two seasons under Marty Schottenheimer with 51/22 TD/ INTs. That was 04 and 05 before the NFL went pass crazy post labor lockout.


In fairness when every team is focused on trying to stop a top 5 all-time RB in LT you are going to have the opportunity to throw the ball…another top-5 all time at his position in Antonio Gates certainly helps as well…the fact that with all that the Chargers still felt they had to draft Philip Rivers and that Brees only got $10 million a year on the open market all say he was an average QB before he got to NO…it’s the reason I don’t think he will get into the HoF.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Watching Alex Smith is an argument for resigning Cutler.

Great defense, talented offense and a game manager QB.

And they are totally out of the game once a good team in then Broncos scores 20 points.


I don’t think you can compare the Chiefs weapons to ours…Charles is quality but no one on the outside is better than Marshall, Alshon or Martellus…also Trestman’s scheme is better than Reid’s…

One thing I just can’t get away from is thinking Trestman could take a QB and do the same as Sean Payton did with Drew Brees…Brees was a distinctly average QB during his time in San Diego…he goes to NO and Payton’s scheme makes him look like a possible hall of famer…Payton is a guy who went to Trestman for advice on implementing that scheme…again maybe I have too much faith in Trestman but I just think he could make it work with less of a talented QB which would give us the resources to improve in other areas.


The counter argument would be imagine what Sean Payton would do with a guy lie Jay who has more physical ability.

Or imagine what happens when a total package QB meets with a great coach, you have the Packers.

I am not sure what to do with Cutler, but I think Trestman sees the most talented QB he has ever worked with.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Watching Alex Smith is an argument for resigning Cutler.

Great defense, talented offense and a game manager QB.

And they are totally out of the game once a good team in then Broncos scores 20 points.


I don’t think you can compare the Chiefs weapons to ours…Charles is quality but no one on the outside is better than Marshall, Alshon or Martellus…also Trestman’s scheme is better than Reid’s…

One thing I just can’t get away from is thinking Trestman could take a QB and do the same as Sean Payton did with Drew Brees…Brees was a distinctly average QB during his time in San Diego…he goes to NO and Payton’s scheme makes him look like a possible hall of famer…Payton is a guy who went to Trestman for advice on implementing that scheme…again maybe I have too much faith in Trestman but I just think he could make it work with less of a talented QB which would give us the resources to improve in other areas.


The counter argument would be imagine what Sean Payton would do with a guy lie Jay who has more physical ability.

Or imagine what happens when a total package QB meets with a great coach, you have the Packers.

I am not sure what to do with Cutler, but I think Trestman sees the most talented QB he has ever worked with.


The question is tho can any coach take away Jay’s gunslinger mentality? Because in this scheme that’s what we have to do…it isn’t about the QB making incredible throw after incredible throw…it’s about a QB knowing where and when to go with the ball and what to do when it’s not there…

I have no doubt Cutler is the most talented QB Trestman has ever worked with but the game is a business as well.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Watching Alex Smith is an argument for resigning Cutler.

Great defense, talented offense and a game manager QB.

And they are totally out of the game once a good team in then Broncos scores 20 points.


I don’t think you can compare the Chiefs weapons to ours…Charles is quality but no one on the outside is better than Marshall, Alshon or Martellus…also Trestman’s scheme is better than Reid’s…

One thing I just can’t get away from is thinking Trestman could take a QB and do the same as Sean Payton did with Drew Brees…Brees was a distinctly average QB during his time in San Diego…he goes to NO and Payton’s scheme makes him look like a possible hall of famer…Payton is a guy who went to Trestman for advice on implementing that scheme…again maybe I have too much faith in Trestman but I just think he could make it work with less of a talented QB which would give us the resources to improve in other areas.


The counter argument would be imagine what Sean Payton would do with a guy lie Jay who has more physical ability.

Or imagine what happens when a total package QB meets with a great coach, you have the Packers.

I am not sure what to do with Cutler, but I think Trestman sees the most talented QB he has ever worked with.


The question is tho can any coach take away Jay’s gunslinger mentality? Because in this scheme that’s what we have to do…it isn’t about the QB making incredible throw after incredible throw…it’s about a QB knowing where and when to go with the ball and what to do when it’s not there…

I have no doubt Cutler is the most talented QB Trestman has ever worked with but the game is a business as well.


I think the best thing that could have happened as crazy as this sounds is that Cutler is being forced to watch McCown run the system how it is meant to be run.

I think we will keep Cutler because Trestman knows that if he can get into Jay's head that he will have a Superstar. That he has never seen his offense work with a guy who can run the system and 4-5 plays a game can make a throw that no one else can.

The Lions game before Jay was crippled made 2-3 throws that no one else could. The key is going to be getting those 2-3 plays with Cutler not throwing the red zone pick.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Speaking for the first time since Week 10, Jay Cutler implied his ankle injury is worse than has been reported and there are "worrisome ligament issues."

"The ankle is the problem. The groin is going to be fine," Cutler said. "If I just had a normal high-ankle sprain, I wouldn't be in a cast. I'm searching for any doctor in the country that will say, 'Hey, you can play on this,' but we haven't found him yet. There’s a couple ligaments that we’re a little bit worried about that’s different than a normal high-ankle sprain." Cutler initially targeted a Week 13 return against the Vikings, "but now I really don't know." All the Bears have said is that Cutler is "week-to-week." It sounds like Josh McCown could be in the saddle for at least a couple more starts.

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DaMike


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
Quote:
Speaking for the first time since Week 10, Jay Cutler implied his ankle injury is worse than has been reported and there are "worrisome ligament issues."

"The ankle is the problem. The groin is going to be fine," Cutler said. "If I just had a normal high-ankle sprain, I wouldn't be in a cast. I'm searching for any doctor in the country that will say, 'Hey, you can play on this,' but we haven't found him yet. There’s a couple ligaments that we’re a little bit worried about that’s different than a normal high-ankle sprain." Cutler initially targeted a Week 13 return against the Vikings, "but now I really don't know." All the Bears have said is that Cutler is "week-to-week." It sounds like Josh McCown could be in the saddle for at least a couple more starts.
These things happen when you rush back from an injury when you're not close to 100%.
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian Rapoport wrote:
@Rap Sheet: Per team source, @RebeccaHaarlow says #Bears QB Jay Cutler should be ready and healthy for Dec. 1 vs. #Vikings.


Meanwhile Jay was on Espn1000 yesterday saying how he has ligament damage in his ankle and this is why he is in a hard cast; which would lead us all to believe he will be out for a while.

But then again I don't really know who/what to believe at this point. So much conflicting info out there. Either way I'm cool with McCown going forward.
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G08


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On his show before the Lions game he made it sound like he wasn't sure if he was going to go so I take that with a grain of salt.

I don't know where Rapoport got the info from a "team source" that Cutler had a target return date... sounds a bit odd to me.

He's a tough sob and if he gets cleared he's going to go... my guess is if it's not December 1st it will be December 9th against the Cowboys. That will give him almost a full month of rehab/rest.
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WindyCity wrote:
McClellin is simply not very good. He is not big enough or strong enough to play at the NFL level. The Bears should move on.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can win in St. Louis and Minnesota without Cutler let him rest till the Cowboys on the 9th.
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KG1187


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did some research on Cutler's injury history.


Cutler missed or was unable to finish 16 games since the start of the 2010 season. Including playoffs and this weeks game the Bears have played in 61 games over the same time span. Cutler either missed or was unable to finish 25% of his starts over the past three seasons. If Cutler misses the Vikes the game the number goes up to 27%.

Plus Cutler has a concussion history few people are talking about. More food for thought.
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raq11


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KG1187 wrote:
Did some research on Cutler's injury history.


Cutler missed or was unable to finish 16 games since the start of the 2010 season. Including playoffs and this weeks game the Bears have played in 61 games over the same time span. Cutler either missed or was unable to finish 25% of his starts over the past three seasons. If Cutler misses the Vikes the game the number goes up to 27%.

Plus Cutler has a concussion history few people are talking about. More food for thought.


And with all of that he is 486 passing yards from being the all time leader in a franchise that started nearly 100 years ago. That's food for thought...

Get him a surrounding cast and you fix half his injuries. If Knox could run a slant route, he doesn't throw a pick vs the Chargers and break his thumb. If he had an o-line vs the Giants, he doesn't get sacked 9 times in a half and get a concussion.

The answer is yes, indisputably, Cutler is the guy.
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KG1187


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raq11 wrote:
KG1187 wrote:
Did some research on Cutler's injury history.


Cutler missed or was unable to finish 16 games since the start of the 2010 season. Including playoffs and this weeks game the Bears have played in 61 games over the same time span. Cutler either missed or was unable to finish 25% of his starts over the past three seasons. If Cutler misses the Vikes the game the number goes up to 27%.

Plus Cutler has a concussion history few people are talking about. More food for thought.


And with all of that he is 486 passing yards from being the all time leader in a franchise that started nearly 100 years ago. That's food for thought...

Get him a surrounding cast and you fix half his injuries. If Knox could run a slant route, he doesn't throw a pick vs the Chargers and break his thumb. If he had an o-line vs the Giants, he doesn't get sacked 9 times in a half and get a concussion.

The answer is yes, indisputably, Cutler is the guy.


Never said the Bears should move on from Cutler just quantified his injury history. Plus you can't go back and undo Cutlers injuries.
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1_two_3_forte


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a sad era in Bears town right now.

Cutler will be gone after this year.

McCown is going to continue to play well enough to win against the Rams and Vikings (because both opposing offenses are horrible).

Cutler will come back and play against a healthy Cowboys team and throw multiple picks - and then, the beginning of the end of the Cutler/Bears era will transpire with the team going with McCown as the starter the week after.

We will cut ties. And then, we will realize how stupid of a decision it was to get rid of him.

Guys - in this league - the drafting of a quarterback is a freaking lottery. You BOMB on the lottery - and you set back the franchise for 5 years.

Look at our offesne. Our window isn't even shutting - it's WIDE OPEN. I can't think of any other offense in the league, that has this many playmakers at a young age.

Forte / Alshon / Marshall / Bennett / 2 extremely promising offensive lineman on the right side. A good/great Quarterback with this group and you got an offense that can grow together and blossom in a great system for 6-7 years. You have a better chance of dreaming of a perfect opportunity for an offense rather than it actually happening.

Missing on a quarterback via draft ruins it all.
Qb plays bad/near average year 1? Lets draft another? Nah. Stick with him. We dont want to get rid of him only for him to come into his own and end up turning into a brady/brees/rodgers/manning later.

Qb plays bad/near average year 2? Lets get rid of him? Nah. Lets not waste our draft pick like that? Stick with him another year. He will get better in the system.

Qb plays bad/near average year 3? Eh. Give another shot. On and on and on.

Cut ties after year 4? Guess what? Forte / Jeffrey / Marshall / Bennett = 4 years older - Questions about the coach arise due to losing.

You dont believe me? Look at the Jaguars and Blaine Gabbert. Do we really want to risk setting the franchise back another 5 years to 8 years by drafting a Blaine Gabbert? All because we weren't satisfied with the Good play of Cutler and wanted to be greedy and reach for a chance at greatness via somewhere else?

Its not worth it. And based upon past trends of Chicago - we will make the wrong decision at the Qb spot . . .


Like we always do.
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