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Is Jay Cutler the guy?
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Jaworski

Quote:
Jaworski pointed out that his opinion doesn’t make Cutler a bad quarterback. But Cutler’s eight-year body of work, coupled with how he’s played in 2013 leads Jaworski to believe there simply hasn’t been enough growth to be optimistic about the future. Besides that, the going rate for franchise quarterbacks these days is approximately $100 million. Jaworski writes:

The issue is that we're no longer talking about things he can learn. He's 30 years old, in his eighth season with over 100 games to his name. He's played for some very good coaches. At what point do we stop saying, "He's got to show me more," and close the book on him, knowing that for better and worse this is Jay Cutler?

Jaworski contends the Bears should apply the franchise tag to Cutler and make the quarterback play out another prove-it year, which I totally agree with for many of the same reasons as Jaworski with a few of my own listed here. Here’s more from Jaworski:

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KG1187


Joined: 16 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Ron Jaworski

Quote:
Jaworski pointed out that his opinion doesn’t make Cutler a bad quarterback. But Cutler’s eight-year body of work, coupled with how he’s played in 2013 leads Jaworski to believe there simply hasn’t been enough growth to be optimistic about the future. Besides that, the going rate for franchise quarterbacks these days is approximately $100 million. Jaworski writes:

The issue is that we're no longer talking about things he can learn. He's 30 years old, in his eighth season with over 100 games to his name. He's played for some very good coaches. At what point do we stop saying, "He's got to show me more," and close the book on him, knowing that for better and worse this is Jay Cutler?

Jaworski contends the Bears should apply the franchise tag to Cutler and make the quarterback play out another prove-it year, which I totally agree with for many of the same reasons as Jaworski with a few of my own listed here. Here’s more from Jaworski:



Who knows whats going on in Hallas Hall but its interesting to see the franchise tag idea gaining steam in the national media. If McCown continues his strong play it should get even more press. Normally don't care about what the national media says about the Bears but its interesting hearing an outside take in this case.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If McCown keeps playing well we are going to have a media storm.

The question will be how much better is Cutler than another option, is he 15 million better than another guy like Cousins or a draft pick with McCown keeping the seat warm.

Because if he is not 15 million better than the other guy is it not a bit of a bad investment?
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
If McCown keeps playing well we are going to have a media storm.

The question will be how much better is Cutler than another option, is he 15 million better than another guy like Cousins or a draft pick with McCown keeping the seat warm.

Because if he is not 15 million better than the other guy is it not a bit of a bad investment?


That is the overriding question…is Cutler making $18 million a season enough of a talent on his own to make us a playoff contender year in year out or are we better with a cheaper possibly less talented option at QB but with more talent around the entire team to make us a playoff contender?...it’s a massive decision for Emery & Trestman to make at the end of the season and in all honestly I don’t know what the answer is…I just hope they two come up with the right one…

One thing I will say is that if McCown continues to make playing QB in this scheme look so easy it’s going to be tough to justify given Cutler a massive contract.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
If McCown keeps playing well we are going to have a media storm.

The question will be how much better is Cutler than another option, is he 15 million better than another guy like Cousins or a draft pick with McCown keeping the seat warm.

Because if he is not 15 million better than the other guy is it not a bit of a bad investment?

That all comes down to what they see Jay being after 2 and 3 years in this system. Jay has improved in year 1 with MT, and both Jay (under Shanahan and Martz) and Trestman (with just about every QB he's coached) have been better the more time they have spent in a system. If they think that Jay will continue to take steps forward in the system then he's not going anywhere, and if they think he's maxed out then they probably do look elsewhere.

To listen to the majority of fans you'd think that Cutler was sucking horribly before he got hurt when reality was that he was playing better than he ever has. If you buy into Trestman then how do you not also buy into Cutler's improvements this year not being a mirage? I think people are looking back with Jay at the inept offenses here before MT arrived when evaluating him when the reality is that the $100M question is far more about 2014-17 than 2009-12.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
If McCown keeps playing well we are going to have a media storm.

The question will be how much better is Cutler than another option, is he 15 million better than another guy like Cousins or a draft pick with McCown keeping the seat warm.

Because if he is not 15 million better than the other guy is it not a bit of a bad investment?

That all comes down to what they see Jay being after 2 and 3 years in this system. Jay has improved in year 1 with MT, and both Jay (under Shanahan and Martz) and Trestman (with just about every QB he's coached) have been better the more time they have spent in a system. If they think that Jay will continue to take steps forward in the system then he's not going anywhere, and if they think he's maxed out then they probably do look elsewhere.

To listen to the majority of fans you'd think that Cutler was sucking horribly before he got hurt when reality was that he was playing better than he ever has. If you buy into Trestman then how do you not also buy into Cutler's improvements this year not being a mirage? I think people are looking back with Jay at the inept offenses here before MT arrived when evaluating him when the reality is that the $100M question is far more about 2014-17 than 2009-12.


Jay’s age makes that tough to do tho…if you have a 26-27 year old QB who you feel could improve steadily over the next 2 or 3 years then you feel comfortable knowing that a 30 year old QB who has been in the same scheme for 3 years gives you a chance to win…but with Cutler turning 31 years old in April you are then talking about a 33-34 year old QB in 2 or 3 years and at that age you aren’t going to rely on him as a long term option…so then it becomes a question of do you think he is worth paying big time money too as he continues to improve over the next couple of years and hope that year 3 or 4 is when it all comes together and we win a championship but at the same time you are already looking for a new starter because Cutler is 33-34 years old? It’s a tough one.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
If McCown keeps playing well we are going to have a media storm.

The question will be how much better is Cutler than another option, is he 15 million better than another guy like Cousins or a draft pick with McCown keeping the seat warm.

Because if he is not 15 million better than the other guy is it not a bit of a bad investment?

That all comes down to what they see Jay being after 2 and 3 years in this system. Jay has improved in year 1 with MT, and both Jay (under Shanahan and Martz) and Trestman (with just about every QB he's coached) have been better the more time they have spent in a system. If they think that Jay will continue to take steps forward in the system then he's not going anywhere, and if they think he's maxed out then they probably do look elsewhere.

To listen to the majority of fans you'd think that Cutler was sucking horribly before he got hurt when reality was that he was playing better than he ever has. If you buy into Trestman then how do you not also buy into Cutler's improvements this year not being a mirage? I think people are looking back with Jay at the inept offenses here before MT arrived when evaluating him when the reality is that the $100M question is far more about 2014-17 than 2009-12.


Jay’s age makes that tough to do tho…if you have a 26-27 year old QB who you feel could improve steadily over the next 2 or 3 years then you feel comfortable knowing that a 30 year old QB who has been in the same scheme for 3 years gives you a chance to win…but with Cutler turning 31 years old in April you are then talking about a 33-34 year old QB in 2 or 3 years and at that age you aren’t going to rely on him as a long term option…so then it becomes a question of do you think he is worth paying big time money too as he continues to improve over the next couple of years and hope that year 3 or 4 is when it all comes together and we win a championship but at the same time you are already looking for a new starter because Cutler is 33-34 years old? It’s a tough one.


I am not convinced that he can hold up 3-4 more years.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
If McCown keeps playing well we are going to have a media storm.

The question will be how much better is Cutler than another option, is he 15 million better than another guy like Cousins or a draft pick with McCown keeping the seat warm.

Because if he is not 15 million better than the other guy is it not a bit of a bad investment?

That all comes down to what they see Jay being after 2 and 3 years in this system. Jay has improved in year 1 with MT, and both Jay (under Shanahan and Martz) and Trestman (with just about every QB he's coached) have been better the more time they have spent in a system. If they think that Jay will continue to take steps forward in the system then he's not going anywhere, and if they think he's maxed out then they probably do look elsewhere.

To listen to the majority of fans you'd think that Cutler was sucking horribly before he got hurt when reality was that he was playing better than he ever has. If you buy into Trestman then how do you not also buy into Cutler's improvements this year not being a mirage? I think people are looking back with Jay at the inept offenses here before MT arrived when evaluating him when the reality is that the $100M question is far more about 2014-17 than 2009-12.


Jay’s age makes that tough to do tho…if you have a 26-27 year old QB who you feel could improve steadily over the next 2 or 3 years then you feel comfortable knowing that a 30 year old QB who has been in the same scheme for 3 years gives you a chance to win…but with Cutler turning 31 years old in April you are then talking about a 33-34 year old QB in 2 or 3 years and at that age you aren’t going to rely on him as a long term option…so then it becomes a question of do you think he is worth paying big time money too as he continues to improve over the next couple of years and hope that year 3 or 4 is when it all comes together and we win a championship but at the same time you are already looking for a new starter because Cutler is 33-34 years old? It’s a tough one.


I am not convinced that he can hold up 3-4 more years.


That's a concern with any player tho...let's face it all these guys are one bad hit away from calling it a career...Johnny Knox as a primer example…as much as injury history should be factored into the decision I don’t think we can be scared of it when deciding wither to resign Cutler long term…it has to be about deciding if we think he is the guy to win us a championship within the next 3-4 years...if not it's another Lovie Smith situation.
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KG1187


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought of a hypothetical Foles trade. Lets say the Bears pick 20 and Philly picks 15 in the draft. The Cutler dilemma remains unsolved and on the first day of free agency Philly offers Foles plus a 2nd for the Bears 1st. Would you do it?

I admit that both team would probably rather do a Foles for a 2nd but play along for the sake of discussion.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KG1187 wrote:
Thought of a hypothetical Foles trade. Lets say the Bears pick 20 and Philly picks 15 in the draft. The Cutler dilemma remains unsolved and on the first day of free agency Philly offers Foles plus a 2nd for the Bears 1st. Would you do it?

I admit that both team would probably rather do a Foles for a 2nd but play along for the sake of discussion.


I’m not a big fan of Foles but that proposed trade would makes Foles worth about the 16th pick in the 2nd round so if Emery & Trestman identified him as the guy they wanted then I would pull the trigger…you get the QB you want plus two top 20 picks in the 2nd round to add some defensive help...

I would more than likely make that trade for Cousins as well but I think if Cutler isn't going to be our QB a rookie more than likely will be.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching Aaron Murray right now and his OL is killing him.

He may be a 2nd round guy that Trestman likes, he is accurate and smart and Trestman has worked with smaller QBs.

When I was in Montreal we had Calvillo who is 5'10" and our OL was 6'7" at the tackles and 6'5" at the OGs.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching Alex Smith is an argument for resigning Cutler.

Great defense, talented offense and a game manager QB.

And they are totally out of the game once a good team in then Broncos scores 20 points.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Watching Alex Smith is an argument for resigning Cutler.

Great defense, talented offense and a game manager QB.

And they are totally out of the game once a good team in then Broncos scores 20 points.

Was just telling a buddy of mine that my biggest fear if the Bears move on from Cutler is getting a guy like Alex Smith. I completely get wanting a guy who makes less bad plays but I don't want a guy SCARED to make bad plays.
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dabears1


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Jay Cutler. I like his toughness, his arm, and football IQ. And I would be in favor of Jay signing for 4 more seasons.

I"ve seen every snap of every Bears game this season and the last two proved one thing, that the reason to let him go is that the NFL might not be a fan of Jay"s at all. We saw Jay Cutler come back early from a pretty bad muscle tear and the refs watched as Detroit pushed him down and bumped him to the ground late role into his legs after he throws for 3 and a half quarters before having to leave because of another injury. Jay got maybe 1 or 2 roughing calls.
Josh McCown has played in 1 game plus two drives since Jay left and got hit late twice in that span and got two roughing calls. The one was to get another chance at the 2 point conversoin with Detroit and the other was in over time with Baltimore that gave the Bears extra yards on the game winning drive.
I know I'm making to much about this but it just seemed so crazy to me.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Watching Alex Smith is an argument for resigning Cutler.

Great defense, talented offense and a game manager QB.

And they are totally out of the game once a good team in then Broncos scores 20 points.


I don’t think you can compare the Chiefs weapons to ours…Charles is quality but no one on the outside is better than Marshall, Alshon or Martellus…also Trestman’s scheme is better than Reid’s…

One thing I just can’t get away from is thinking Trestman could take a QB and do the same as Sean Payton did with Drew Brees…Brees was a distinctly average QB during his time in San Diego…he goes to NO and Payton’s scheme makes him look like a possible hall of famer…Payton is a guy who went to Trestman for advice on implementing that scheme…again maybe I have too much faith in Trestman but I just think he could make it work with less of a talented QB which would give us the resources to improve in other areas.
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