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Should we offer Talib an extension?
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Should we sign him to an extension?
Yes
85%
 85%  [ 17 ]
No
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 20

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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 8519
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:26 am    Post subject: Should we offer Talib an extension? Reply with quote

via Matthew Jones at NEPatriotsDraft.Com

What should we do?

Reasons to re-sign him:
* Currently giving up a reception just under every 18 snaps
* Ability to take away opposition's best receiving weapon, having limited AJ Green, Vincent Jackson, Jimmy Graham and Julio Jones this year
* The 'trickle down' impact that has on our ability to blitz
* Lack of true 'shutdown corner' alternatives
* Drop-off in play during his injury: 22 quarters with Talib NE is giving up just 14 ppg averaged. 15 quarters without Talib NE is giving up 26 ppg average.
* We could front-load the contract with incentives, meaning other top tier talent on the roster whose deals expire in 2015 might not be impacted
* Questionable history of finding cornerback talent in the draft

Reasons not to re-sign him:
* He misses games, Talib has yet to finish a full season in the NFL in 6 seasons and that hip is clearly a troublesome element. Not a good injury to have at that position.
* The price, Talib doesn't necessarily strike me as a guy who would choose winning over the offer of a much larger contract - which he would no doubt be looking for. We'd likely have to pay top money to retain him.
* Teams who have heavily invested at the position haven't been rewarded with huge amounts of on-field success
* The play of Alfonzo Dennard and Logan Ryan, has been encouraging enough to think they could be develop into a solid pairing
* Character concern, it's still there. Will we see the same level of play after a lucrative deal?
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TomRalph


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm 50/50 on this, I really would like to sign him as he's the first really good CB we've had since Asante maybe? But the negative aspects are so worrying it may not be worth the risk.

I believe that with a few teams having so much cap space to play with that Talib may be a priority free agent for them and that will be difficult to re-sign him on a team friendly salary.
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patsfan25


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there are other premiere CBs on the market this offseason, I'd let him loose and try to sign one of them. I'm not a big fan of his character and personality. He's balling, but he's just a football player based on athleticism. I don't see him as a smart and intelligent football player.

To me, this defense is a shutdown CB away from being really good, and it has showed with the way Talib has played THIS year. Of course, having someone of Dennard's capability helps too.
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ChazStandard


Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undecided really. Everything about him (injuries, personality) seems to suggest a bad long term investment. But he's basically the best corner we've had since Samuel and one season of Bodden.

Speaking of Bodden: he came in, played one good season, signed a healthy contract, got hurt and never played again.

Right now I'd say re-sign him because I think the injuries hurt his stock enough it will not be too expensive. But I'm basing that on the hypothetical that Ryan won't ever be a starter and having no knowledge whatsoever of what the CB FA class is like.
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent Grimes should be a decent alternative if Talib signs elsewhere in the offseason. I'd still like to either franchise him or get him signed long term, him and Dennard with McCourty at FS is about as good as it gets.
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PoWww


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely.

Finding shut down corners who can completely take another teams best weapon out of the game are extremely hard to find. Especially given our success of drafting CB's(although Dennard has been great).

Watch how much our defense improves when he's back in there Monday night against Carolina.
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I would. Who's his agent?
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Iron_man


Joined: 01 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say yes, because he's shown us that he can be a lights out corner back. Also we don't know the market for good CBs this coming off season. I could see signing him to a 4 year deal but push most of the money to the last 2 years so, that way if his ability starts to slip we could cut him in the final year of his contract and save some money.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iron_man wrote:
I say yes, because he's shown us that he can be a lights out corner back. Also we don't know the market for good CBs this coming off season. I could see signing him to a 4 year deal but push most of the money to the last 2 years so, that way if his ability starts to slip we could cut him in the final year of his contract and save some money.


The problem with any 4 year deal is the guaranteed money (which you wouldn't be able to "save" on per se if he is cut after 2 years).

Base salary is never the issue with these deals.
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Deadpulse


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Iron_man wrote:
I say yes, because he's shown us that he can be a lights out corner back. Also we don't know the market for good CBs this coming off season. I could see signing him to a 4 year deal but push most of the money to the last 2 years so, that way if his ability starts to slip we could cut him in the final year of his contract and save some money.


The problem with any 4 year deal is the guaranteed money (which you wouldn't be able to "save" on per se if he is cut after 2 years).

Base salary is never the issue with these deals.


I'm not a fan of arguing the details of contracts as to why one wouldn't be worked out. There is a plethora of options to make a contract fit the situation that best suits the Patriots. The trick is getting the player to agree to the terms but it can be done. Let's not pretend like contracts HAVE to be a certain way, we've seen some odd contract situations over the years.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Iron_man wrote:
I say yes, because he's shown us that he can be a lights out corner back. Also we don't know the market for good CBs this coming off season. I could see signing him to a 4 year deal but push most of the money to the last 2 years so, that way if his ability starts to slip we could cut him in the final year of his contract and save some money.


The problem with any 4 year deal is the guaranteed money (which you wouldn't be able to "save" on per se if he is cut after 2 years).

Base salary is never the issue with these deals.


I'm not a fan of arguing the details of contracts as to why one wouldn't be worked out. There is a plethora of options to make a contract fit the situation that best suits the Patriots. The trick is getting the player to agree to the terms but it can be done. Let's not pretend like contracts HAVE to be a certain way, we've seen some odd contract situations over the years.


Do you think Talib is going to sign a deal that is short on guaranteed money? Because that seems unrealistic.

The contract can be written up in dozens of different variations, but he's going to ask for - and receive, whether from New England or someone else - a lot of guaranteed cash. From a cap point of view (which is all we should really care about) that's the only important part of the deal.
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he ultimately gets franchised.
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GoldenboyGB


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhunt2402 wrote:
I think he ultimately gets franchised.


This. I think the coaching staff loves having him but there's a lot to be desired with Talib off the field. He's kept his nose clean but he's got a really checkered past. He's a fantastic player and one of the best cornerbacks we've been able to work with.

He's a top flight corner but at his age and he hasn't been consistently dominant nor healthy here and in his career it makes me not want to overpay for him.

We will either keep him for another year as a rental like before and if he walks after a final offer you've got some sort of insurance plan (draft picks, free agent).

I hope the scenario that plays out is that Talib returns at a modest deal. He's a defensive piece that I rather not just walk.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoldenboyGB wrote:
dhunt2402 wrote:
I think he ultimately gets franchised.


This. I think the coaching staff loves having him but there's a lot to be desired with Talib off the field. He's kept his nose clean but he's got a really checkered past. He's a fantastic player and one of the best cornerbacks we've been able to work with.

He's a top flight corner but at his age and he hasn't been consistently dominant nor healthy here and in his career it makes me not want to overpay for him.

We will either keep him for another year as a rental like before and if he walks after a final offer you've got some sort of insurance plan (draft picks, free agent).

I hope the scenario that plays out is that Talib returns at a modest deal. He's a defensive piece that I rather not just walk.


I agree that the franchise tag is the best way to go for 2014 but I'm hopeful that Talib takes a below market deal to stay.

Unfortunately, he doesn't seem like the type of guy to leave millions of dollars on the table and the Patriots no longer have the appeal of being the best chance for a free agent to win a ring.
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PoWww


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, I get a weird feeling that Talib loves it here. Just a good fit for him has a football player and a person. Everything I read says he's a leader in the locker room too.

Call me naive, but it's just one of those feelings. He hated his time in Tampa. He could have went elsewhere this past off season but chose to come back.

Can't let him go though, he'll get franchised if it comes down to it.
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