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What to do at Safety
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Nads786


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 4260
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are awful right now but it could just be a down year. I don't think we need to draft a safety high or sign a big namer.

I would rather invest in the Dline and hope Conte goes back to his performance from last year.

Major is going to be looking for a contract and I would let him walk at this point.
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MonserinNC


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One big thing that sticks out to me and why I don't blame the safeties, is why are the safeties even involved on so many plays to begin with??

Almost every play makes it to our 3rd level, and every pass play requires help over the top.

I blame the pass rush and even LB play for exposing basically 2 decent safeties. Right now the Bears are asking them to tackle like LB's and cover better than the CB's......it just puts them in a position to fail.
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ForteOz


Joined: 03 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nads786 wrote:
They are awful right now but it could just be a down year. I don't think we need to draft a safety high or sign a big namer.

I would rather invest in the Dline and hope Conte goes back to his performance from last year.

Major is going to be looking for a contract and I would let him walk at this point.


Agreed.
Great DLine play can mask bad safety play, but it doesn't work the other way around. Rebuilding the DLine through free agency, like we did with the OLine is not realistic. It is just too expensive.
Realistically, I would want them to sign a starting quality Dlineman (which will cost us), another depth/rotation guy or two, and spend a high draft pick on one, preferably a first. Let's not forget we need to continue adding Oline depth as well, eventually someone is going to miss time.

As for moving Tillman to safety, that kind of move should only be considered to prolong Tillman's career when he can't hack it at CB anymore. Otherwise you are robbing Peter to pay Paul, and CB is a more important position IMO.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonserinNC wrote:
One big thing that sticks out to me and why I don't blame the safeties, is why are the safeties even involved on so many plays to begin with??

Almost every play makes it to our 3rd level, and every pass play requires help over the top.

I blame the pass rush and even LB play for exposing basically 2 decent safeties. Right now the Bears are asking them to tackle like LB's and cover better than the CB's......it just puts them in a position to fail.
Exactly, and as to the complaints about the Safeties tackling being crappy how is that any different from the rest of the defense. By the time Lacy reached the safeties there had already been half dozen missed tackles.
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Nads786


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dickerson had a great point about Conte, hes about 6'1 and 190 and the physical punishment he is getting is too much for him to handle and he's basically shell shocked right now.

He's not playing with any confidence right now and you can tell, I can see him bounce back next year.
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MonserinNC


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Exactly, and as to the complaints about the Safeties tackling being crappy how is that any different from the rest of the defense. By the time Lacy reached the safeties there had already been half dozen missed tackles.



Nads786 wrote:
Dickerson had a great point about Conte, hes about 6'1 and 190 and the physical punishment he is getting is too much for him to handle and he's basically shell shocked right now.

He's not playing with any confidence right now and you can tell, I can see him bounce back next year.


Yes to both of these, we specifically got these types of safeties to run and have speed, they have been asked to play run support waaayyy too much this season. On the Eddie Lacy plays, Lacy was going basically full speed into Conte...Conte isn't that type of player to begin with.

As for coverage, the play has dropped off but they are being asked to do SO much its too much on their plate. Has any LB besides Anderson made plays in coverage all season?
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonserinNC wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Exactly, and as to the complaints about the Safeties tackling being crappy how is that any different from the rest of the defense. By the time Lacy reached the safeties there had already been half dozen missed tackles.



Nads786 wrote:
Dickerson had a great point about Conte, hes about 6'1 and 190 and the physical punishment he is getting is too much for him to handle and he's basically shell shocked right now.

He's not playing with any confidence right now and you can tell, I can see him bounce back next year.


Yes to both of these, we specifically got these types of safeties to run and have speed, they have been asked to play run support waaayyy too much this season. On the Eddie Lacy plays, Lacy was going basically full speed into Conte...Conte isn't that type of player to begin with.

As for coverage, the play has dropped off but they are being asked to do SO much its too much on their plate. Has any LB besides Anderson made plays in coverage all season?


Wright isn't really a burner in any way. He was always known for being a big hitter, not for being a huge threat in coverage. And they re asked to be decent at both run and pass, but letting a WR behind you is NEVER allowed, and they have both been guilty of that several times, and they are asked to be able to help in the run, but that is nothing surprising, they are usually 15 yards off the ball, so they have time to diagnose if it is a run (and the direction it is being run) or a pass.

Conte made several terrible plays Monday. On the play you were referring to he took a horrible angle, and that was why Jennings had to chase him down. If Conte had at least made a decent hit or wrapped a leg up for a second, other players could have aided him and finished the run 10+ yards earlier. In the second the Pack ran a couter to the left (Conte's side) and Starks barely made a move and Conte just whiffed, barely laid a paw on him (if at all).

We all understand that they aren't going to tackle like a Ray Lewis or play coverage like Revis, but using that as an excuse for them for failing is just silly. Safeties ins the Cover and Tampa 2 are SUPPOSE to be able to do both fairly well, they cover a half of the field deep, and are needed to help in the run. If they can't help in coverage, and they can't come up in run support, why are they under contract at all?
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IronMike84


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres' the answer:


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DaMike


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I truly think that a better pass rush will make these guys better against the pass and our LBs not playing like crap will help with the run.
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Nads786


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My comments about Conte were not an excuse for his play, I believe getting destroyed by running backs is a factor in him playing so poorly.
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IronMike84


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Bowen is on The Score right now and made a good point that I haven't noticed: with all of the injuries at d-tackle and linebacker, teams are especially inclined to check to the run when the Bears show two-deep safeties.

Additionally, against 11 personnel (3WR, 1RB, 1TE), teams are running on a 6-man box since the Bears will have to come out in nickel.

Obviously this doesn't exclude awful tackling, but like some of you guys said, some of the safety woes start up front.
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TytybearsFan21


Joined: 31 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ak06max wrote:
CB Nnamdi Asomugha was cut by the 9ers. He probably wants too much for what hes worth


He's worthless lol. Done.
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IronMike84


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TytybearsFan21 wrote:
ak06max wrote:
CB Nnamdi Asomugha was cut by the 9ers. He probably wants too much for what hes worth


He's worthless lol. Done.

That's right up there with people wanting the Bears to bring in LaDainian Tomlinson and Reggie Wayne. Too much infatuation with the name, zero attention to their actual production.
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
TytybearsFan21 wrote:
ak06max wrote:
CB Nnamdi Asomugha was cut by the 9ers. He probably wants too much for what hes worth


He's worthless lol. Done.

That's right up there with people wanting the Bears to bring in LaDainian Tomlinson and Reggie Wayne. Too much infatuation with the name, zero attention to their actual production.


Reggie was still ballin'. It's too bad he had to go out with that ACL injury. Looks like that could be the end.
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
TytybearsFan21 wrote:
ak06max wrote:
CB Nnamdi Asomugha was cut by the 9ers. He probably wants too much for what hes worth


He's worthless lol. Done.

That's right up there with people wanting the Bears to bring in LaDainian Tomlinson and Reggie Wayne. Too much infatuation with the name, zero attention to their actual production.



Last year Wayne had over 100 receptions, over 1300 yards, and 5 TDs. He was highly productive, one of the most productive in the entire NFL, and was on pace for 80+ receptions, over 1000 yards, and a handful of TDs again. Before that he's had only 1 year since 2004 where he didn't get over 1000 yards. He's not top 5-10 any more, but saying he wasn't productive is moronic. You have paid zero attention to his production, not everyone who wanted him here.
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