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Browns should be contenders next year
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poorbytehshore


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 2591
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
zelbell wrote:

i am extremely curious with how Mettenberger is gonna play against Bama this weekend, we're gonna learn a lot about him Saturday


My worry with Mettenberger is that he looks a lot like Tyler Wilson did on the field (or DA, or any other strong armed statue with questionable decision making) and like Ben Roethlisberger off of it.


He reminds me of Carson Palmer
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
I'm just annoyed we basically threw away at least a couple more wins just by starting Weeden.


I dont know how you can say we just threw away wins.

look at the preseason. The Browns looked good and so did Weeden. First two games of the year, Browns played good but didnt play well enough to win, You can say well if the Browns had Gordon they could win those games. Weeden gets hurt and Hoyer steps in. He plays good those 2 games he started so he at least earned to start again and you dont force Weeden to come back in. Well Hoyer gets and hurt and Weeden comes in and plays the rest of the bills game. Well Weeden struggles the first half but sharpens up the 2nd half and completes some clutch passes and leads the Browns on a couple scoring drives.

Weeden played well enough to be the starter vs the Lion. Well he sucks it up against the lions and gets the infamous flip pick. Well he sucks. Coaches believe he can possibly bounce back. So they play him vs the Packers and he shows them absolutely nothing. What do the coaches do, they pull him for Campbell.

I dont know how you can say the coaches just threw away those games with Weeden. IMO they followed the proper protocol in the situation. They thought Weeden struggled first two games because of no Gordon. He has Gordon for basically 3 games and those 2 games he just bombs it. Coach see there is enough evidence to pull him as the starter for the rest of the year. Now we are where we are. The only thing the Browns need to do is bring in another QB to challenge Weeden for QB #2.

I seriously think the Browns idea for this season was to ride in with Weeden because I believe they didnt think the roster would take to the coach as well as they did. I didnt think every area outside of QB and RB would play this well. I feel like the coaches and FO went into this season with this idea of Weeden. You start Weeden, if he performs, great we have a QB to be the starter for the next handful of years while we groom a QB Aaron Rodgers style, if Weeden sucks, we will be drafting high enough to draft a stud. Well Weeden sucks and gets hurt and it allows Hoyer and Campbell to start. In there starts it shows that this team outside of RB is pretty damn talented
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
zelbell wrote:

i am extremely curious with how Mettenberger is gonna play against Bama this weekend, we're gonna learn a lot about him Saturday


My worry with Mettenberger is that he looks a lot like Tyler Wilson did on the field (or DA, or any other strong armed statue with questionable decision making) and like Ben Roethlisberger off of it.


He reminds me of Carson Palmer


On a bad day, and after the knee injuries....
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Browns are contenders this year or next, it won't be with a rookie QB.

Outside of the phenom of Luck and RGIII, rookie QB's never lead their teams to playoffs. It doesn't happen.

The Browns have a great opportunity to draft a guy and just let him sit with no worries next year or even the year after.
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
If the Browns are contenders this year or next, it won't be with a rookie QB.

Outside of the phenom of Luck and RGIII, rookie QB's never lead their teams to playoffs. It doesn't happen.

The Browns have a great opportunity to draft a guy and just let him sit with no worries next year or even the year after.


I agree (so far) First time this looks possible since before the return?
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pmk


Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
If the Browns are contenders this year or next, it won't be with a rookie QB.

Outside of the phenom of Luck and RGIII, rookie QB's never lead their teams to playoffs. It doesn't happen.

The Browns have a great opportunity to draft a guy and just let him sit with no worries next year or even the year after.
Roethlisberger? Russell Wilson? Matt Ryan? Joe Flacco?
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pmk wrote:
bulldog wrote:
If the Browns are contenders this year or next, it won't be with a rookie QB.

Outside of the phenom of Luck and RGIII, rookie QB's never lead their teams to playoffs. It doesn't happen.

The Browns have a great opportunity to draft a guy and just let him sit with no worries next year or even the year after.
Roethlisberger? Russell Wilson? Matt Ryan? Joe Flacco?


Ya it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility for us to come firing out of the gate.

The biggest key, IMO, is the team around that rookie QB.

We have a top 10 defense and 2 Very good offensive weapons.
Good coaching, a pretty good Oline. The only thing that needs a huge change is running game, but that's not a tough fix.

That QB should have a pretty solid team around him.
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pmk wrote:
bulldog wrote:
If the Browns are contenders this year or next, it won't be with a rookie QB.

Outside of the phenom of Luck and RGIII, rookie QB's never lead their teams to playoffs. It doesn't happen.

The Browns have a great opportunity to draft a guy and just let him sit with no worries next year or even the year after.
Roethlisberger? Russell Wilson? Matt Ryan? Joe Flacco?


Those guys disnt carry their teams. Luck and RGIII did.

Therea exceptions to everything. The list for rookie qbs that were unable to carry their team is much much longer.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
pmk wrote:
bulldog wrote:
If the Browns are contenders this year or next, it won't be with a rookie QB.

Outside of the phenom of Luck and RGIII, rookie QB's never lead their teams to playoffs. It doesn't happen.

The Browns have a great opportunity to draft a guy and just let him sit with no worries next year or even the year after.
Roethlisberger? Russell Wilson? Matt Ryan? Joe Flacco?


Those guys disnt carry their teams. Luck and RGIII did.

Therea exceptions to everything. The list for rookie qbs that were unable to carry their team is much much longer.


Luck carried his team but Alfred Morris' 1600+ total yards and 10+ TDs say otherwise for RGIII.

Whatever QB comes in for the browns wont have to carry the team. Browns decided to attack the building of the defense first because that is will will carry a young QB. Look at Big Ben. His defense carried him in the beginning. Look at Flacco his defense carried him, look at Russell his defensive carried him. If you have a great defense your young QB will be fine. If a young QB has a great defense they dont have to worry about forcing a big play to happen because they know if they end up punting, its going to allow you to punt the defense in shape instead of forcing a pass that can swing field position
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daboyle250


Joined: 29 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
bulldog wrote:
pmk wrote:
bulldog wrote:
If the Browns are contenders this year or next, it won't be with a rookie QB.

Outside of the phenom of Luck and RGIII, rookie QB's never lead their teams to playoffs. It doesn't happen.

The Browns have a great opportunity to draft a guy and just let him sit with no worries next year or even the year after.
Roethlisberger? Russell Wilson? Matt Ryan? Joe Flacco?


Those guys disnt carry their teams. Luck and RGIII did.

Therea exceptions to everything. The list for rookie qbs that were unable to carry their team is much much longer.


Luck carried his team but Alfred Morris' 1600+ total yards and 10+ TDs say otherwise for RGIII.

Whatever QB comes in for the browns wont have to carry the team. Browns decided to attack the building of the defense first because that is will will carry a young QB. Look at Big Ben. His defense carried him in the beginning. Look at Flacco his defense carried him, look at Russell his defensive carried him. If you have a great defense your young QB will be fine. If a young QB has a great defense they dont have to worry about forcing a big play to happen because they know if they end up punting, its going to allow you to punt the defense in shape instead of forcing a pass that can swing field position


Most of Alfred Morris' yards came because of the threat that is RGIII's running ability. The read option they ran last year did wonders for Alfred Morris.
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buno67


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daboyle250 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
bulldog wrote:
pmk wrote:
bulldog wrote:
If the Browns are contenders this year or next, it won't be with a rookie QB.

Outside of the phenom of Luck and RGIII, rookie QB's never lead their teams to playoffs. It doesn't happen.

The Browns have a great opportunity to draft a guy and just let him sit with no worries next year or even the year after.
Roethlisberger? Russell Wilson? Matt Ryan? Joe Flacco?


Those guys disnt carry their teams. Luck and RGIII did.

Therea exceptions to everything. The list for rookie qbs that were unable to carry their team is much much longer.


Luck carried his team but Alfred Morris' 1600+ total yards and 10+ TDs say otherwise for RGIII.

Whatever QB comes in for the browns wont have to carry the team. Browns decided to attack the building of the defense first because that is will will carry a young QB. Look at Big Ben. His defense carried him in the beginning. Look at Flacco his defense carried him, look at Russell his defensive carried him. If you have a great defense your young QB will be fine. If a young QB has a great defense they dont have to worry about forcing a big play to happen because they know if they end up punting, its going to allow you to punt the defense in shape instead of forcing a pass that can swing field position


Most of Alfred Morris' yards came because of the threat that is RGIII's running ability. The read option they ran last year did wonders for Alfred Morris.


im just saying they both benefited off each other well. Morris ran well that when a team focused on RGIII he could hurt them and teams knew if they focused on Morris, RGIII will hurt when he pulled and kept the ball
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pmk


Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
pmk wrote:
bulldog wrote:
If the Browns are contenders this year or next, it won't be with a rookie QB.

Outside of the phenom of Luck and RGIII, rookie QB's never lead their teams to playoffs. It doesn't happen.

The Browns have a great opportunity to draft a guy and just let him sit with no worries next year or even the year after.
Roethlisberger? Russell Wilson? Matt Ryan? Joe Flacco?


Those guys disnt carry their teams. Luck and RGIII did.

Therea exceptions to everything. The list for rookie qbs that were unable to carry their team is much much longer.
You said "lead" not carry, I would argue that all 4 of those guys were leaders right out of the gate. I agree with you overall but I think you're speaking in absolutes here when there's been a few exceptions, especially recently. I don't think anyone expects a rookie QB to come in and put up 4500 yards and 30 TDs en route to a superb owl, but I think the foundation is in place for a rookie QB who can come in and be efficient to take this team very far. The defense is looking very fast, loves to hit, and there are plenty of offensive weapons. The OL has had its ups and downs but has shown that if the QB gets the ball out quick they can provide good enough protection. That said, I totally agree with you that they should take it slow with whoever they bring in. We're the second youngest team in the league, the window is just opening. Lets see what Hoyer can do, hopefully we end up with a Rivers/Brees situation where there is not a wrong option!
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poorbytehshore


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
I'm just annoyed we basically threw away at least a couple more wins just by starting Weeden.


I dont know how you can say we just threw away wins.

look at the preseason. The Browns looked good and so did Weeden. First two games of the year, Browns played good but didnt play well enough to win, You can say well if the Browns had Gordon they could win those games. Weeden gets hurt and Hoyer steps in. He plays good those 2 games he started so he at least earned to start again and you dont force Weeden to come back in. Well Hoyer gets and hurt and Weeden comes in and plays the rest of the bills game. Well Weeden struggles the first half but sharpens up the 2nd half and completes some clutch passes and leads the Browns on a couple scoring drives.

Weeden played well enough to be the starter vs the Lion. Well he sucks it up against the lions and gets the infamous flip pick. Well he sucks. Coaches believe he can possibly bounce back. So they play him vs the Packers and he shows them absolutely nothing. What do the coaches do, they pull him for Campbell.

I dont know how you can say the coaches just threw away those games with Weeden. IMO they followed the proper protocol in the situation. They thought Weeden struggled first two games because of no Gordon. He has Gordon for basically 3 games and those 2 games he just bombs it. Coach see there is enough evidence to pull him as the starter for the rest of the year. Now we are where we are. The only thing the Browns need to do is bring in another QB to challenge Weeden for QB #2.

I seriously think the Browns idea for this season was to ride in with Weeden because I believe they didnt think the roster would take to the coach as well as they did. I didnt think every area outside of QB and RB would play this well. I feel like the coaches and FO went into this season with this idea of Weeden. You start Weeden, if he performs, great we have a QB to be the starter for the next handful of years while we groom a QB Aaron Rodgers style, if Weeden sucks, we will be drafting high enough to draft a stud. Well Weeden sucks and gets hurt and it allows Hoyer and Campbell to start. In there starts it shows that this team outside of RB is pretty damn talented


It was apparent that Weeden was holding this team back last year. Then the Miami game made it obvious he had not progressed at all. Even against the Bills he sucked, outside of a couple deep balls to Gordon and Little.

If Campbell or Hoyer had played from the start, we'd probably have another win, if not two. That's clear enough to me. For all the coaches good work, the one negative so far is how they handled Weeden. I have a feeling he wasn't particularly lighting it up in practice but they put him in as the incumbent.

At least that's over now
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:


There (are) exceptions to everything. The list for rookie qbs that were unable to carry their team is much much longer.


Truth.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
pmk wrote:
bulldog wrote:
If the Browns are contenders this year or next, it won't be with a rookie QB.

Outside of the phenom of Luck and RGIII, rookie QB's never lead their teams to playoffs. It doesn't happen.

The Browns have a great opportunity to draft a guy and just let him sit with no worries next year or even the year after.
Roethlisberger? Russell Wilson? Matt Ryan? Joe Flacco?


Those guys disnt carry their teams. Luck and RGIII did.

Therea exceptions to everything. The list for rookie qbs that were unable to carry their team is much much longer.


ok, our defense and surrounding offense will be good enough to carry a good rookie...
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