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Judging Case and the future of our QB position
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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Posts: 30304
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco79 wrote:
Texans will draft a QB in the first round and have him battle it out with Case in TC.


and pass up chances to take a stud OT in round 1? That would dumb. The QB class is going to be deep. We can get nice value in rounds 2 or 3.

Bridgewater
Mariota
Hundley
Manziel
Boyd
Mettenberger
Carr
McCarron
Murray
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YellowSCRE4MS


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed the difference in the 2nd half is that teams start blitzing Case like crazy. Damn near everytime he goes 5 wide or pistol there's a blitz or overload coming.

What I've wondered is why doesn't he just audible and have a guy run a quick slant? Is it because he doesn't have authority or is it because he just can't?
Almost everytime they blitz when its 5wide it ends up in a throw away or sack.

Watching Aaron Rodgers, Brady, and Manning whenever they go 5wide and see the blitz coming they either hit the quick slant or lob it up to someone on the outside since its man cov all around.

Hopefully its just learning phase and that he will pick it up after studying more.
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texans_uk


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2nd round qbs are such a crapshoot that's my only issue.

You might get Kaepernick or you might get Brian Brohm.
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LORK 88


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texans_uk wrote:
2nd round qbs are such a crapshoot that's my only issue.

You might get Kaepernick or you might get Brian Brohm.

Agreed, 2nd and 3rd round QBs have been predominantly busts. There's been a bit of recent success (Dalton, Foles, Wilson, Kaepernick), but history shows that it's not very promising. Just a few names of the 2nd/3rd rounders that haven't panned out:

Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy
Pat White
Brian Brohm
Kevin O'Connell
John Beck
Drew Stanton
Trent Edwards
Kevin Kolb
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
Charlie Whitehurst
Brodie Croyle
Charlie Frye
Andrew Walter
David Greene
Dave Ragone
Chris Simms
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LORK 88 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
2nd round qbs are such a crapshoot that's my only issue.

You might get Kaepernick or you might get Brian Brohm.

Agreed, 2nd and 3rd round QBs have been predominantly busts. There's been a bit of recent success (Dalton, Foles, Wilson, Kaepernick), but history shows that it's not very promising. Just a few names of the 2nd/3rd rounders that haven't panned out:

Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy
Pat White
Brian Brohm
Kevin O'Connell
John Beck
Drew Stanton
Trent Edwards
Kevin Kolb
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
Charlie Whitehurst
Brodie Croyle
Charlie Frye
Andrew Walter
David Greene
Dave Ragone
Chris Simms


You could always try to trade a 4th for Kirk Cousins since he has shown has a clue in the NFL, and wouldn't be as much of a risk as a rookie QB.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

honestly id rather keep keenum and fill our other holes....build around him first since there are so many holes on this defense.....i think he is at minimum good ENOUGH for a great defense and run game to win a super bowl with
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's Matt Miller of Bleacher Reports QB comps

Teddy Bridgewater: Aaron Rodgers
Marcus Mariota: Colin Kaepernick
Johnny Manziel: RGIII
Jimmy Garappolo: Shaun Hill
Tajh Boyd: Jake Locker
Zach Mettenberger: Philip Rivers
Derek Carr: Jay Cutler
AJ McCarron: Matt Schaub
Aaron Murray: Case Keenum
Keith Price: Tyrod Taylor
David Fales: Andy Dalton
Stephen Morris: Josh Freeman
Jeff Mathews: Derek Anderson
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LORK 88 wrote:
texans_uk wrote:
2nd round qbs are such a crapshoot that's my only issue.

You might get Kaepernick or you might get Brian Brohm.

Agreed, 2nd and 3rd round QBs have been predominantly busts. There's been a bit of recent success (Dalton, Foles, Wilson, Kaepernick), but history shows that it's not very promising. Just a few names of the 2nd/3rd rounders that haven't panned out:

Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy
Pat White
Brian Brohm
Kevin O'Connell
John Beck
Drew Stanton
Trent Edwards
Kevin Kolb
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
Charlie Whitehurst
Brodie Croyle
Charlie Frye
Andrew Walter
David Greene
Dave Ragone
Chris Simms


That's the downside of taking a QB in round 2 or 3, but if Case continues to play well, we dont need to take a QB in round 1 just to take one. If we have pick 5-10, and Teddy, Mariota and Hundley are both off the board, there is no way Im reaching for a QB with our first pick, especially if a guy like Jake Matthews or Taylor Lewan is on the board for us to pick.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
Here's Matt Miller of Bleacher Reports QB comps

Teddy Bridgewater: Aaron Rodgers
Marcus Mariota: Colin Kaepernick
Johnny Manziel: RGIII
Jimmy Garappolo: Shaun Hill
Tajh Boyd: Jake Locker
Zach Mettenberger: Philip Rivers
Derek Carr: Jay Cutler
AJ McCarron: Matt Schaub
Aaron Murray: Case Keenum
Keith Price: Tyrod Taylor
David Fales: Andy Dalton
Stephen Morris: Josh Freeman
Jeff Mathews: Derek Anderson


Johnny Manziel: RGIII

Lost all credibility here. First off, you couldn't find more polar opposites from a character standpoint than these two this side of Tebow and I'm not just talking about the off the field stuff. RG3 evolved immensely over his 4 years at Baylor especially as a passer with a ridiculous commitment to mastering the finer details of the position while Johnny appears satisfied to get by on his innate instincts which are exceptional, but don't necessarily translate to the next level. RG3's fast start last year was partly attributable to all the "voluntary" work he did with his suspect receiving corp in Waco long before camps. How do you think Johnny will be spending his first offseason with millions in the bank?

I was at the Miss State game this weekend and not only did he throw 2 more terrible ints in the red zone (+1 more) largely due to his overconfidence in his arm, there were several throws that were the exact type I know NFL scouts evaluate (suspect accuracy and arm strength on passes from the short side to long side sideline which are pick 6's on the next level). The guy's ability to create on the run is off the charts, but once you get past the SEC hype and actually look at the decent teams he's beaten, you are still looking at that magical Alabama game in 2012 and the OU bowl game which puts him at 2-4 vs. the only quality opponents he has faced in A&Ms quasi-SEC schedule that still hasn't had them play Georgia or South Carolina. Ags want to blame the losses on the defense which is largely true, but they completely ignore the damaging ints he has thrown (3 vs. LSU last year, & 2 each vs. Bama and Auburn) and this week points to a negative trend line as they were ugly vs. a team who hasn't beaten anyone in 2 seasons.

Finally, while Johnny clearly has athletic gifts, let's pump the brakes before the RG3 comps. While Johnny is elusive, RG3 brought World Class caliber speed and the difference in arm strength is almost as great. Johnny has improved this season in plenty of ways including accuracy and throwing in the pocket, but the only reason this season will be his last is that nobody trusts him to remain eligible a 3rd season which says nothing about his NFL readiness (RG3 wouldn't have been ready as a sophomore either). He's had the luxury of playing with top-shelf NFL Tackles yet he's still taking far too many sacks and the Bret Favre comps are more like the end of his career when he threw the head scratchers and his receivers have bailed him out of plenty more. I think it is also fair to question his response to injury when his charmed existence finally involves taking a hit he doesn't see coming and his history doesn't point to the kind of dedication to rehab like RG3 had to return without missing a game from a playoff loss to the start of the next season.

RG3 would have been the #1 overall NFL pick in any season over the past decade if not for the rightly transcendent Luck. Johnny certainly still has the power to make himself one of the top 3 Qbs taken if he rolls thru LSU and Mizzou on the road, wins another bowl game, and aces the controlled offseason workouts (I doubt he plays in any games or does much at the combine). The vetting process will certainly be interesting with him as scouts will care less about the autograph stuff and more about the role of alcohol in his life which is dismissed as normal college behavior, which ignores the fact that when normal drinkers start having job, legal, and relationship issues they can quit, while Johnny seems to just feel more entitled to do whatever he wants because he is always protected from the consequences which is NOT what normal college kids have, just like they don't regularly throw their cell phones against walls in anger then get handed new ones.

To that end, I still think the best NFL comp for Johnny ironically is Tim Tebow as his success is more about having a special ability to make plays that are uniquely successful at the college level, but unlike Cam or Vick without freakish tools. Before you reject it with "what we now know," I still think Tebow's #25 overall draft slot is higher than where Johnny will go. Colt McCoy is the other comp I think fits and again don't forget that he actually took his team to a 12-0 season and a national championship game.

Remember, Johnny is a guy who STILL isn't allowed to talk to the media out of fear of his inability to keep his discourse at a respectful level, not be a massive distraction, and avoid exhibiting his lack of emotional control. He's not going to be able to hide behind lawyers at the next level folks and if you don't see the Ryan Leaf meltdown potential, you haven't been paying attention. Russell Wilson has enjoyed the benefit of minimal expectations and a uniquely positive Head Coach, and an exceptional run game and defense, and I don't see too many situations that he would walk into like that except...

Just say no Texan fans, just like we rightfully did with Vince Young (who also had far better physical skillset than Johnny and didn't just beat an eventual National Champion, he carried his team to one).
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houstonX


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it is impossible to be objective about a guy who played high school and college ball in the city of Houston while also being the quarterback for said city's professional team. When I watch Case Keenum play all I see is a one read quarterback. I mean sure it's working right now, but that isn't a long term recipe for success. I'm taking Bridgewater 10/10 times and not thinking twice about it.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who would you compare Johnny to then, Apollo?
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Wolf6151


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

houstonX wrote:
I guess it is impossible to be objective about a guy who played high school and college ball in the city of Houston while also being the quarterback for said city's professional team. When I watch Case Keenum play all I see is a one read quarterback. I mean sure it's working right now, but that isn't a long term recipe for success. I'm taking Bridgewater 10/10 times and not thinking twice about it.


Case Keenum played his high school ball at Wiley H.S. in Abilene, Tx. where he grew up. I like Bridgewater as well but he'll be gone by the time we pick unless we're #1 and I don't foresee that happening. We're currently the #4 pick and we could get Marcus Mariota though. On that list posted by LJC, Mariota compares to Kaepernick. I'd be happy with that.
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolf6151 wrote:
houstonX wrote:
I guess it is impossible to be objective about a guy who played high school and college ball in the city of Houston while also being the quarterback for said city's professional team. When I watch Case Keenum play all I see is a one read quarterback. I mean sure it's working right now, but that isn't a long term recipe for success. I'm taking Bridgewater 10/10 times and not thinking twice about it.


Case Keenum played his high school ball at Wiley H.S. in Abilene, Tx. where he grew up. I like Bridgewater as well but he'll be gone by the time we pick unless we're #1 and I don't foresee that happening. We're currently the #4 pick and we could get Marcus Mariota though. On that list posted by LJC, Mariota compares to Kaepernick. I'd be happy with that.


Kaepernick is not as good of a passer as Schaub. He has much more mobility and better tools, but it's not translating. I think Keenum brings as much to the table as Kaepernick does.

Mariota's going to have a steep learning curve in the NFL. He's not going to be able to produce right away. You draft him with the expectation that he may pan out in 4-5 years, but I'd rather take someone with a shorter learning curve.
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Texans02


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolf6151 wrote:
Case Keenum played his high school ball at Wiley H.S. in Abilene, Tx. where he grew up. I like Bridgewater as well but he'll be gone by the time we pick unless we're #1 and I don't foresee that happening. We're currently the #4 pick and we could get Marcus Mariota though. On that list posted by LJC, Mariota compares to Kaepernick. I'd be happy with that.


Have you seen Kaepernick play this season? It's a tragedy.

However, Mariota is my favorite QB prospect this year so far. I just don't like the Kaep comparison.
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PAtexansFAN99


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texansfan713 wrote:
PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
I think if we draft and build the offense to Keenum's strengths, we'll be looking at a Pro Bowl QB.


If we can draft a deep threat in the mid rounds to help out Andre and Hopkins, that would be perfect. Keenum is great at finding deep threats open. Not trying to be a homer, but I wouldnt mind bringing in Patrick Edwards (his best WR target at UH) for a try-out. Can't be any worse than KeShawn Martin.

Also, we need to protect him way more. That's obvious to us based on what we have seen in the 3 games he has started. We NEED to give him time in the pocket so he can make his smart decisions.

Quote:
Keenum has earned the right for the Texans to find out if he is their QB. I don't a great Keenum season will prevent the Texans from drafting a QB in the second or third round anyway. If he does bad, they can draft a QB in the first round. IMO there aren't any elite QB prospects aside from Bridgewater & Manziel.


Manziel isnt even going to be a top 3 QB prospect coming out. Assuming him, Mariota, and Hundley comes out, I am easily taking those two over him as a prospect.


You're right that we need to protect him, or whoever its going to be under center. If we can put a top tier OL around Keenum though I think he's showed he can make all the plays, AND that he plays a safe game as well.
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