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terrell123


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 4627
Location: Atlanta
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
JUst because i knew terrell wouldnt do it, i did the math myself. I took the top 7 QBS in the league (Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Roethlisberger, and Ryan), at least IMO, and looked at TD% and INT% in the redzone. Shockingly, or you know... not, i found what im sure most would expect. The elite QBs, (brees, manning, brady, rodgers) are all a step ahead of Romo, Roethlisberger and Ryan. However Ryan is right there with the other two.

Looked at a per years basis over the last three, if anyone knows how to get an excel document on here ill gladly post it.
Youd take Matt Ryan over Andrew Luck? No GM in the league would do that... Well maybe except Dimitroff, and I doubt he even would. I could name a few others Id take over Ryan. And I like Ryan.... Hes top 10-15 imo. Numbers LIE when it comes to qb's. Btw, I wasnt talking about TD to INT ratio. I was talking about TD to FG in the redzone ratio.... Wink


lol at ryan being top 10-15. even in a down year he is still clearly top 10. And why are you looking at a broader stat when you can look at something more specific. Its like trying determine how good Adrian Peterson is but how many total yards the offense gains. And no, stats do not lie. Thats a cop out for people who want to avoid the truth> They can be manipulated, but they do not lie. Especially over a longer period of time.
Last time I checked, top 10-15 has the number 10 in it. Hell, why you mad? Top 10-15 in the NFL is good. Not EXCEPTIONAL. But good.


DO you mean besides the obvious? Anway, I still think Ryan is top 7, maybe 8 with RIvers regaining form. To answer your previous question, if i was starting a franchise, Id take luck. Hes about 5 years younger and 15 million cheaper/year. However Ryan is better and its not close.

You ignored everything else, why?
Because I wasn't talking about TD to INT ratio. I was talking about TD to FG in the redzone ratio(if there is one) It s easy to have a good TD to INT ratio in the redzone when all you usually do is throw the ball away and settle for the FG. That stat means squat... . If you cant see that we cant score TD's in the redzone then ...............
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terrell123


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 4627
Location: Atlanta
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
JUst because i knew terrell wouldnt do it, i did the math myself. I took the top 7 QBS in the league (Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Roethlisberger, and Ryan), at least IMO, and looked at TD% and INT% in the redzone. Shockingly, or you know... not, i found what im sure most would expect. The elite QBs, (brees, manning, brady, rodgers) are all a step ahead of Romo, Roethlisberger and Ryan. However Ryan is right there with the other two.

Looked at a per years basis over the last three, if anyone knows how to get an excel document on here ill gladly post it.
Youd take Matt Ryan over Andrew Luck? No GM in the league would do that... Well maybe except Dimitroff, and I doubt he even would. I could name a few others Id take over Ryan. And I like Ryan.... Hes top 10-15 imo. Numbers LIE when it comes to qb's. Btw, I wasnt talking about TD to INT ratio. I was talking about TD to FG in the redzone ratio.... Wink


lol at ryan being top 10-15. even in a down year he is still clearly top 10. And why are you looking at a broader stat when you can look at something more specific. Its like trying determine how good Adrian Peterson is but how many total yards the offense gains. And no, stats do not lie. Thats a cop out for people who want to avoid the truth> They can be manipulated, but they do not lie. Especially over a longer period of time.
Last time I checked, top 10-15 has the number 10 in it. Hell, why you mad? Top 10-15 in the NFL is good. Not EXCEPTIONAL. But good.


DO you mean besides the obvious? Anway, I still think Ryan is top 7, maybe 8 with RIvers regaining form. To answer your previous question, if i was starting a franchise, Id take luck. Hes about 5 years younger and 15 million cheaper/year. However Ryan is better and its not close.

You ignored everything else, why?
lol at you thinking Matt Ryan is better than Andrew Luck(and its not even close). Puleeze! Numbers LIE! That dude WILLS his team to victory. And didn't he lose his best receiver last week? Still gets it done. No knock on Ryan. But he is no Andrew Luck.... Luck can do ALOT of things at the qb position that Matt cant do. And Matt cant do ANYTHING at the qb position that Andrew cant do. Guarantee you if we had Luck we wouldn't be 2-5. He doesn't need a perfect oline, or a perfect rec core to make things happen. Especially in the clutch. Just sayin

Last edited by terrell123 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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GSUeagles14


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 5930
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
JUst because i knew terrell wouldnt do it, i did the math myself. I took the top 7 QBS in the league (Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Roethlisberger, and Ryan), at least IMO, and looked at TD% and INT% in the redzone. Shockingly, or you know... not, i found what im sure most would expect. The elite QBs, (brees, manning, brady, rodgers) are all a step ahead of Romo, Roethlisberger and Ryan. However Ryan is right there with the other two.

Looked at a per years basis over the last three, if anyone knows how to get an excel document on here ill gladly post it.
Youd take Matt Ryan over Andrew Luck? No GM in the league would do that... Well maybe except Dimitroff, and I doubt he even would. I could name a few others Id take over Ryan. And I like Ryan.... Hes top 10-15 imo. Numbers LIE when it comes to qb's. Btw, I wasnt talking about TD to INT ratio. I was talking about TD to FG in the redzone ratio.... Wink


lol at ryan being top 10-15. even in a down year he is still clearly top 10. And why are you looking at a broader stat when you can look at something more specific. Its like trying determine how good Adrian Peterson is but how many total yards the offense gains. And no, stats do not lie. Thats a cop out for people who want to avoid the truth> They can be manipulated, but they do not lie. Especially over a longer period of time.
Last time I checked, top 10-15 has the number 10 in it. Hell, why you mad? Top 10-15 in the NFL is good. Not EXCEPTIONAL. But good.


DO you mean besides the obvious? Anway, I still think Ryan is top 7, maybe 8 with RIvers regaining form. To answer your previous question, if i was starting a franchise, Id take luck. Hes about 5 years younger and 15 million cheaper/year. However Ryan is better and its not close.

You ignored everything else, why?
Because I wasn't talking about TD to INT ratio. I was talking about TD to FG in the redzone ratio(if there is one) It s easy to have a good TD to INT ratio in the redzone when all you usually do is throw the ball away and settle for the FG. That stat means squat... . If you cant see that we cant score TD's in the redzone then ...............


Do you really not understand this? Ryans TD% is on par with Romo's and Bens. If you dont know, thats TDs/passes thrown. Throwing the ball away hurts you in that stat.

Im measuring the part Ryan is most directly responsible for, as that is the player you are bringing up.
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terrell123


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 4627
Location: Atlanta
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
JUst because i knew terrell wouldnt do it, i did the math myself. I took the top 7 QBS in the league (Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Roethlisberger, and Ryan), at least IMO, and looked at TD% and INT% in the redzone. Shockingly, or you know... not, i found what im sure most would expect. The elite QBs, (brees, manning, brady, rodgers) are all a step ahead of Romo, Roethlisberger and Ryan. However Ryan is right there with the other two.

Looked at a per years basis over the last three, if anyone knows how to get an excel document on here ill gladly post it.
Youd take Matt Ryan over Andrew Luck? No GM in the league would do that... Well maybe except Dimitroff, and I doubt he even would. I could name a few others Id take over Ryan. And I like Ryan.... Hes top 10-15 imo. Numbers LIE when it comes to qb's. Btw, I wasnt talking about TD to INT ratio. I was talking about TD to FG in the redzone ratio.... Wink


lol at ryan being top 10-15. even in a down year he is still clearly top 10. And why are you looking at a broader stat when you can look at something more specific. Its like trying determine how good Adrian Peterson is but how many total yards the offense gains. And no, stats do not lie. Thats a cop out for people who want to avoid the truth> They can be manipulated, but they do not lie. Especially over a longer period of time.
Last time I checked, top 10-15 has the number 10 in it. Hell, why you mad? Top 10-15 in the NFL is good. Not EXCEPTIONAL. But good.


DO you mean besides the obvious? Anway, I still think Ryan is top 7, maybe 8 with RIvers regaining form. To answer your previous question, if i was starting a franchise, Id take luck. Hes about 5 years younger and 15 million cheaper/year. However Ryan is better and its not close.

You ignored everything else, why?
Because I wasn't talking about TD to INT ratio. I was talking about TD to FG in the redzone ratio(if there is one) It s easy to have a good TD to INT ratio in the redzone when all you usually do is throw the ball away and settle for the FG. That stat means squat... . If you cant see that we cant score TD's in the redzone then ...............


Do you really not understand this? Ryans TD% is on par with Romo's and Bens. If you dont know, thats TDs/passes thrown. Throwing the ball away hurts you in that stat.

Im measuring the part Ryan is most directly responsible for, as that is the player you are bringing up.
They don't call us the FG Falcons for nothing. But whatever dude.... Holla at me next week when we get to the redzone. Wink
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BeeperKing


Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 4005
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terrell123 wrote:
They don't call us the FG Falcons for nothing.


They do?
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FakingInjuries wrote:

Without those elite targets, [Matt Ryan] is in the same tier as Matt Cassell.
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terrell123


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 4627
Location: Atlanta
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
JUst because i knew terrell wouldnt do it, i did the math myself. I took the top 7 QBS in the league (Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees, Romo, Roethlisberger, and Ryan), at least IMO, and looked at TD% and INT% in the redzone. Shockingly, or you know... not, i found what im sure most would expect. The elite QBs, (brees, manning, brady, rodgers) are all a step ahead of Romo, Roethlisberger and Ryan. However Ryan is right there with the other two.

Looked at a per years basis over the last three, if anyone knows how to get an excel document on here ill gladly post it.
Youd take Matt Ryan over Andrew Luck? No GM in the league would do that... Well maybe except Dimitroff, and I doubt he even would. I could name a few others Id take over Ryan. And I like Ryan.... Hes top 10-15 imo. Numbers LIE when it comes to qb's. Btw, I wasnt talking about TD to INT ratio. I was talking about TD to FG in the redzone ratio.... Wink


lol at ryan being top 10-15. even in a down year he is still clearly top 10. And why are you looking at a broader stat when you can look at something more specific. Its like trying determine how good Adrian Peterson is but how many total yards the offense gains. And no, stats do not lie. Thats a cop out for people who want to avoid the truth> They can be manipulated, but they do not lie. Especially over a longer period of time.
Last time I checked, top 10-15 has the number 10 in it. Hell, why you mad? Top 10-15 in the NFL is good. Not EXCEPTIONAL. But good.


DO you mean besides the obvious? Anway, I still think Ryan is top 7, maybe 8 with RIvers regaining form. To answer your previous question, if i was starting a franchise, Id take luck. Hes about 5 years younger and 15 million cheaper/year. However Ryan is better and its not close.

You ignored everything else, why?
So you'd take Ryan if they were the same age and made the same amount of $?
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terrell123


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 4627
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ryan is a good qb, but he isn't an "elite" qb imo. But that's not a huge problem. Most qb's in the NFL aren't "elite". But it does become a problem when your non-elite qb is being paid like Brady and Brees. We all understand and are sympathetic to the fact that Matt has lost most of his offensive line due to injury or whatever, but that's when a star QB is supposed to put a team on his back, and not contribute to the problems. But what we've learned is Ryan needs a sturdy offensive line and all-star skill at wr to play at a pro bowl level. Problem is, giving him the humongous contract, its going to be difficult to put and keep the talent around him that he needs. You can agree or disagree. We shall see...... Might end up being Joe Johnson part 2.... Jus sayin.
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falcons145


Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 533
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with so much of this it's not even funny. We need to clean house in staff. Dimitroff, Smith, and the coordinators need to be fired. I DO think Matt needs to stay though, it's not his fault
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tech2186


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 4367
Location: Dawg House
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

terrell123 wrote:
Ryan is a good qb, but he isn't an "elite" qb imo. But that's not a huge problem. Most qb's in the NFL aren't "elite". But it does become a problem when your non-elite qb is being paid like Brady and Brees. We all understand and are sympathetic to the fact that Matt has lost most of his offensive line due to injury or whatever, but that's when a star QB is supposed to put a team on his back, and not contribute to the problems. But what we've learned is Ryan needs a sturdy offensive line and all-star skill at wr to play at a pro bowl level. Problem is, giving him the humongous contract, its going to be difficult to put and keep the talent around him that he needs. You can agree or disagree. We shall see...... Might end up being Joe Johnson part 2.... Jus sayin.


The Falcons were put in between a rock an a hard place with Matt's contract though. We have to factor that in the equation. Now you could say they should of held out and then offrerd him a contract in the 2014 off season. But he still would of been paid a truckload of money. Unfortunately, that is how the NFL is when you have a franchise QB.

Now you are right, just because you are the franchise doesn't make you elite. Ryan is a very good QB but he lacks pocket awareness and arm strength. Which means he needs a strong run game that can be built off of play action. Which is what he had when he was first here. The only difference to that is now he is more of an accomplished passer to where he can be allowed to take over a game when neccessary. But I think this team made a huge mistake in trying to become a "Packer-like" offense with a QB that isn't Aaron Rodgers. A strong run game and Oline needs to be the primary focus on Offense next year.

TD is going to have to be held accountable for throwing money away on players like Ray Edwards, Sam Baker and Decoud to put us in the situation we are in now cap wise. But the Ryan deal isn't completely his fault. The only concern is that this regime is in somewhat of a pressure cooker because of this new stadium. You can't sale a new stadium and PSL's to people when the team isn't any good. So they have to get better and that means a season like this can only happen once. Otherwise AB will clean house.
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SpoonFed56


Joined: 11 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tech2186 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
Ryan is a good qb, but he isn't an "elite" qb imo. But that's not a huge problem. Most qb's in the NFL aren't "elite". But it does become a problem when your non-elite qb is being paid like Brady and Brees. We all understand and are sympathetic to the fact that Matt has lost most of his offensive line due to injury or whatever, but that's when a star QB is supposed to put a team on his back, and not contribute to the problems. But what we've learned is Ryan needs a sturdy offensive line and all-star skill at wr to play at a pro bowl level. Problem is, giving him the humongous contract, its going to be difficult to put and keep the talent around him that he needs. You can agree or disagree. We shall see...... Might end up being Joe Johnson part 2.... Jus sayin.


The Falcons were put in between a rock an a hard place with Matt's contract though. We have to factor that in the equation. Now you could say they should of held out and then offrerd him a contract in the 2014 off season. But he still would of been paid a truckload of money. Unfortunately, that is how the NFL is when you have a franchise QB.

Now you are right, just because you are the franchise doesn't make you elite. Ryan is a very good QB but he lacks pocket awareness and arm strength. Which means he needs a strong run game that can be built off of play action. Which is what he had when he was first here. The only difference to that is now he is more of an accomplished passer to where he can be allowed to take over a game when neccessary. But I think this team made a huge mistake in trying to become a "Packer-like" offense with a QB that isn't Aaron Rodgers. A strong run game and Oline needs to be the primary focus on Offense next year.

TD is going to have to be held accountable for throwing money away on players like Ray Edwards, Sam Baker and Decoud to put us in the situation we are in now cap wise. But the Ryan deal isn't completely his fault. The only concern is that this regime is in somewhat of a pressure cooker because of this new stadium. You can't sale a new stadium and PSL's to people when the team isn't any good. So they have to get better and that means a season like this can only happen once. Otherwise AB will clean house.


We need to go back to the power run game, play action like back in 08-10 (this is NOT a Mularkey endorsement). Maybe switch to ZBS up front. Get a new G and maybe another T and see if it shores up the OL. Matt DOES NOT need to be throwing the ball 50 times a game. Matt is not a BAD QB, we are just asking too much of him. I may have been a bit biased, but the truth is he is no Brady/Brees/Rodgers/PManning. This is not necessarily a bad thing, he just needs more run game and a better defense to back him up. Hell, look at Flacco last yr.... and Ryan is better than Flacco no question IMO.
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GSUeagles14


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our run game was awful last year and Ryan was fantastic. He doesn't need a strong run game to be very good. certainly helps though...
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tech2186


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpoonFed56 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
terrell123 wrote:
Ryan is a good qb, but he isn't an "elite" qb imo. But that's not a huge problem. Most qb's in the NFL aren't "elite". But it does become a problem when your non-elite qb is being paid like Brady and Brees. We all understand and are sympathetic to the fact that Matt has lost most of his offensive line due to injury or whatever, but that's when a star QB is supposed to put a team on his back, and not contribute to the problems. But what we've learned is Ryan needs a sturdy offensive line and all-star skill at wr to play at a pro bowl level. Problem is, giving him the humongous contract, its going to be difficult to put and keep the talent around him that he needs. You can agree or disagree. We shall see...... Might end up being Joe Johnson part 2.... Jus sayin.


The Falcons were put in between a rock an a hard place with Matt's contract though. We have to factor that in the equation. Now you could say they should of held out and then offrerd him a contract in the 2014 off season. But he still would of been paid a truckload of money. Unfortunately, that is how the NFL is when you have a franchise QB.

Now you are right, just because you are the franchise doesn't make you elite. Ryan is a very good QB but he lacks pocket awareness and arm strength. Which means he needs a strong run game that can be built off of play action. Which is what he had when he was first here. The only difference to that is now he is more of an accomplished passer to where he can be allowed to take over a game when neccessary. But I think this team made a huge mistake in trying to become a "Packer-like" offense with a QB that isn't Aaron Rodgers. A strong run game and Oline needs to be the primary focus on Offense next year.

TD is going to have to be held accountable for throwing money away on players like Ray Edwards, Sam Baker and Decoud to put us in the situation we are in now cap wise. But the Ryan deal isn't completely his fault. The only concern is that this regime is in somewhat of a pressure cooker because of this new stadium. You can't sale a new stadium and PSL's to people when the team isn't any good. So they have to get better and that means a season like this can only happen once. Otherwise AB will clean house.


We need to go back to the power run game, play action like back in 08-10 (this is NOT a Mularkey endorsement). Maybe switch to ZBS up front. Get a new G and maybe another T and see if it shores up the OL. Matt DOES NOT need to be throwing the ball 50 times a game. Matt is not a BAD QB, we are just asking too much of him. I may have been a bit biased, but the truth is he is no Brady/Brees/Rodgers/PManning. This is not necessarily a bad thing, he just needs more run game and a better defense to back him up. Hell, look at Flacco last yr.... and Ryan is better than Flacco no question IMO.


Exactly, and most people see the highlights but Peyton Manning and Brady usually have strong or effective run games. Especially Peyton. Peyton uses his RB's masterfully and will not hesitate to check to a run play instead of pass. This is a passing league no doubt but the formulas for winning still includes a running game. The playoff teams that went far last year all had strong run games with the exception of us. Ryan is good, but he can be even better if teams have to respect our ground game.
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terrell123


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
Our run game was awful last year and Ryan was fantastic. He doesn't need a strong run game to be very good. certainly helps though...
Schedule helped last year too. Not to mention, everyone staying healthy.(cant count on that happening much), and ALOT of luck going our way. He also didn't have to do much. Just throw it up to Julio and TG. Or a quick out to Roddy or Jones and let them get some YAC or whatever. But now that TG is being doubled and triple teamed, and Julio is sidelined, Matt looks lost. And its not all on the Oline either. They gave him plenty of time the last couple of weeks. Just bad decision, after bad decision. Hope he looks better vs Seattle, or it might get ugly...... Btw, Ryan is also one of the worst qb's at setting up a screen pass to the rb Ive ever seen. Just looks awkward doing it.... Idk? Maybe its just me.... This team has ALOT of issues. And Matt is the least of our problems(- the contract). But still. Cant get over that contract, with only 1 playoff win. But anyway..... Still think we should've waited... Wouldve had more leverage after this horrible campaign.
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