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101stSaintsFan


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 1514
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:50 pm    Post subject: Jets beat down Reply with quote

Yes, BEAT DOWN. The score meant nothing... In the trenches on both sides of the ball, we got beat up like someone who stole something in a Muslim country. Some random things that really got my blood boiling.
So damn frustrating. When you lose nicks, Goodwin and bushrod to free agency, you need draft picks to replace those lost. Thanks to the awesome Ingram draft and goodell taking away draft picks cuz I'll assume he was bored, we are feeling the repercussions of having to field CRAP to protect brees. We are essentially Pittsburgh v2.0 but with a good record thus-far.
Remember that when you are screaming for us to trade up in the draft for a player.
I seriously can't believe we let NY run all over us. How many times was geno in the shotgun with ivory as a single back and there was a draw to the outside that resulted in a 10-20 yd gain? We got out coached too...that's what really hurts.
We can't run and we cannot stop the run. That worriese cuz the only threat in our division is Carolina and guess what they do well? Yeah. Plus that's what you need to have in the playoffs... A run game and a good run defense. We better get our s**t straight FAST.
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rdelaney89


Joined: 22 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a deep breath the Jets defensive line is one of the best in the game. You threw the ball all over us and we only had 140 yards passing. You are a good team and it is still possible that the NFC goes through NO.
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FLOODx


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel you man. I felt like we deserved to lose this game unlike the Pats game so it's easier to take. We need a whole new O line and some run stoppers on the D line. The D will improve when Harper and Jenkins come back, but I don't see the O line improving this season.
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Spartica4Real


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
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Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole you "need a run game" thing is blown out of proportion. No you don't. It's a passing league, you don't need a run game. What we do well on defense, is stop the pass. I don't know about you but I'd MUCH rather be able to stop the pass than stop the run, you can't do everything. Our problem is we give up to many big runs. We have a lot of runs where the RB goes nowhere, but then we give up big gains. We still have a great shot at the SB, better than almost every team, look at Seattle vs the Bucs and Rams, they certainly don't scare me at all. I'm probably more worried about Green Bay but they have a terrible pass defense which we can shred. I like our chances.
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101stSaintsFan


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
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Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartica4Real wrote:
The whole you "need a run game" thing is blown out of proportion. No you don't. It's a passing league, you don't need a run game. What we do well on defense, is stop the pass. I don't know about you but I'd MUCH rather be able to stop the pass than stop the run, you can't do everything. Our problem is we give up to many big runs. We have a lot of runs where the RB goes nowhere, but then we give up big gains. We still have a great shot at the SB, better than almost every team, look at Seattle vs the Bucs and Rams, they certainly don't scare me at all. I'm probably more worried about Green Bay but they have a terrible pass defense which we can shred. I like our chances.


Opposite of you, chief.With our re-made defense and acquisition of vacarro and lewis, I'd much rather have teams throw the ball against us. I wanna see this aggressive pass rush do its thing. When we can't stop the run, it's like watching a blob slowly move down the field that you can't do anything against. We had the perfect storm to punch the Jets in the mouth; rookie QB, no real receiver threats and knowing they were going to rush. And despite all that, they still did it and did it well. That's embarrassing. And that's also what the Panthers are going to do as well.

And on another note, boy it'd be nice to have a good run game...Prolly could put that game away in New England... just saying.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:54 am    Post subject: Re: Jets beat down Reply with quote

Quote:
So damn frustrating. When you lose nicks, Goodwin and bushrod to free agency, you need draft picks to replace those lost.


Funny that you didn't mention Brees holding out for the Manning deal instead of taking the Brady deal the Saints wanted him to. Which in turned forced us to franchise him, which caused Nicks to walk. Later the money was to tight to offer Bushrod a competitive deal... Sorry but every time I see Brees running for his life and he's looking around like "come on guys" a little part of me screams, BEWARE WHAT YOU WISH FOR!!!
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick question... Has Sean Payton ever had a 1,000 yard rusher in his tenure here... EVER?

58-13 that's the number we ought to really concerned with! That was the pass to run ratio in a game on the road, in the wind, outdoors, against a good defense, in a close game.

58 passes to 13 runs, and 2 of those runs was a fullback dive and a putrid attempt at a TE reverse on 4th and inches.

I'm going to say what's really wrong with this running game that most don't wanna say... wanna know what the biggest problem with our run game is?

SEAN PAYTON

That's right, I said it... DOn't get me wrong I love Payton as a coach but it's time to put the blame squarely where it belongs. Until Sean Payton truly begins to give a you know what about the running game this is what were gonna get week in and week out.

I don't see it changing any time soon if ever in the Payton era...
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Sec104row6


Joined: 22 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartica4Real wrote:
The whole you "need a run game" thing is blown out of proportion. No you don't. It's a passing league, you don't need a run game.


Fascinating interpretation of pro football.
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navysaintsfan


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 11016
Location: Springdale, Arkansas
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartica4Real wrote:
The whole you "need a run game" thing is blown out of proportion. No you don't. It's a passing league, you don't need a run game.


...I'm glad you are not in an NFL front office Laughing

In today's league, at a minimum, you throw to score...you run to win.
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Magnifico


Joined: 01 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartica4Real wrote:
The whole you "need a run game" thing is blown out of proportion. No you don't. It's a passing league, you don't need a run game.


Massively disagree. You certainly DO need a serviceable run game. Aaron Rodgers has played some great [inappropriate/removed] football since late 2010. You know why the Packers went nowhere in 2011 and 2012? They couldn't run the ball worth a damn and couldn't stop it either.

You absolutely NEED to be able to run the ball. It may not be your primary weapon but it can't be something the defence doesn't have to worry about. Not only that the NFC is filled with great QB's, you run and keep them off the field, much like the Jets did to us. A short passing game is not a replacement for a run game.

Why did we not win the Pats game? A number of things but we had TWO attempts to get a first down and run down the clock on the Pats and couldn't do that.

Quote:
What we do well on defense, is stop the pass. I don't know about you but I'd MUCH rather be able to stop the pass than stop the run, you can't do everything.


Stopping the pass is great, but its a massive problem if a team can run it down your throats eat up the clock and keep our great offense sitting on the bench twiddling their thumbs? Our strength has been our ability to put up points fast. However our O isn't mistake free. 1 or 2, 3 and out's, an INT and suddenly we don't see the ball for another 6-7 minutes? That's a problem and puts us into situations like yesterdaay. Teams are running for 4.9 YPC on us. It's too much.

Quote:
We still have a great shot at the SB, better than almost every team, look at Seattle vs the Bucs and Rams, they certainly don't scare me at all.


We have a shot but the way our team is currently is too predictable. Great D's in Seattle and 49ers will have a field day. We can't run the ball and our pass protection isn't elite by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't get this, we matchup badly because our strength [passing O] matches their strength [passing D], whilst their pass rush is better than our O-Line [tips the balance]. Seattle are the best pass defence in the league. If Brees is gonna sling it 50+ times a game against them you bet they'll get theirs just like the Jets did. Their weakness is that there interior D-Line isn't good enough.

The Bucs played them hard because they ran for 205 at 5.4 a pop and Glennon fed off the resulting play action which affected their defensive backs. The Rams ran for 200 yds at 5.4 a pop. The Texans 151 at 4.3 a pop. The Panthers for 134 at 5.2 a pop. The blueprint is there to beat Seattle, run the damn ball, play-action off it. We can't do that.

At the minute are weaknesses are too obvious for me to seriously see us making it to New York come the first Sunday in February.


Last edited by Magnifico on Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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101stSaintsFan


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 1514
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worm I hear what you are saying about coach Payton. Damn near every week he says "we gotta run the ball". But how can he when game day comes? He sees the o line struggling in pass protection. He knows running the ball is somewhat futile.
And as for brees holding out, what is he supposed to do? The man wanted money and we needed to pay him. Without him, We suck lol.
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Fray32


Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 432
Location: The Great White North
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
I feel you man. I felt like we deserved to lose this game unlike the Pats game so it's easier to take. We need a whole new O line and some run stoppers on the D line. The D will improve when Harper and Jenkins come back, but I don't see the O line improving this season.
...im not sure i follow Laughing
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Fray32


Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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Location: The Great White North
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
A quick question... Has Sean Payton ever had a 1,000 yard rusher in his tenure here... EVER?

58-13 that's the number we ought to really concerned with! That was the pass to run ratio in a game on the road, in the wind, outdoors, against a good defense, in a close game.

58 passes to 13 runs, and 2 of those runs was a fullback dive and a putrid attempt at a TE reverse on 4th and inches.

I'm going to say what's really wrong with this running game that most don't wanna say... wanna know what the biggest problem with our run game is?

SEAN PAYTON

That's right, I said it... DOn't get me wrong I love Payton as a coach but it's time to put the blame squarely where it belongs. Until Sean Payton truly begins to give a you know what about the running game this is what were gonna get week in and week out.

I don't see it changing any time soon if ever in the Payton era...
1) what does it matter having a guy get 1000 yards on the ground if you can simulate that production from various role players? I mean really, we've never had the ground attack channelled through one person, and it hasn't handicapped us (at least certainly not in 09 or 11). And yes, I'm pretty sure Deuce hit 1000 in 06.

2) I feel your pain man, anytime we put the ball in Brees' hands every play, I just expect us to lose by the end. I'm not convinced running the ball more would have translated to more offensive success not only in the running game but the passing game as well, but I too wish Payton had stayed with it a little longer.

In general though, what's the point in dwelling on this? It's not like "oh man, we need to run the ball more to stay balanced" is any secret. Literally everyone who watched that game, or at least listens to what Collinsworth and Michaels have to say next Sunday will have come to the exact same conclusion. It's not like Payton is trying to win football games in spite of the running game, like he thinks its beneath him or he's deliberately handicapping himself to give the other team a fair chance at keeping up Laughing

We need to relax. Yes we got mauled up front on both sides of the ball. But we're still in good position here. We have room for improvement but who doesn't, I mean really. When we beat Dallas, go to the Georgia dome and sweep the Falcons, knock off the Niners at home and Upset the Hawks in Seattle while simultaneously turning the perception of 'unbeatable home team' on its head, none of us are going to be calling for Payton's head then.

As a final note, what the actual hell was that tight end reverse Laughing I can laugh now because I've moved on, but my god I almost screamed when I saw that except I couldnt find my voice, I was literally left speechless with that playcall.
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NS922


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
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Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're overreacting a bit.

The main problem is the O-line. They've been disrupting the whole flow of our offense by not protecting Drew enough, and not being able to block for runs. Thus, we don't run it as much because we know we can't, so that puts added pressure on Drew (just like last year). Because of this, the offense is less effective and that puts the defense on the field more, which increases the chance of them giving up big plays. Not a good formula for success. However, if we can somehow get the O-line to straighten up a bit, we should be fine. There's no team in the league that we can't beat as far as I'm concerned, we just need to work on the o-line and offensive efficiency.
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Saint-Anger_13


Joined: 03 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I've seen so far Is that any physical team that plays hard against the Saints and they get scared, and from what? I don't know. The patriot game showed when the game hits a crucial moment it's not the offense, defense, special teams, It's the entire team gets scared to lose. Either because of a expectation they all have in they're heads, or someone's telling them they all should win games. Either way, this team needs to go out and play harder, and without fear of letting someone down, coach Peyton included.
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