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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Russell can have a bad game and the Seahawks can still win. Not many quarterbacks have that luxury. That doesn't mean Russell Wilson sucks, it's just stating a fact that cannot be contested.


And what QB on a team that's a Super Bowl contender doesn't have that "luxury" to have a bad game or two and still win a game?????


Last edited by BBIB on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Phire wrote:
Russell can have a bad game and the Seahawks can still win. Not many quarterbacks have that luxury. That doesn't mean Russell Wilson sucks, it's just stating a fact that cannot be contested.


And what QB on a team that's a Super Bowl contender doesn't have that "luxury" to have a bad game or two and still win a game?????

The Patriots, the Broncos, the Saints... what do you consider a contender? The defending champion Ravens, the Packers... need I go on?
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
BBIB wrote:
Phire wrote:
Russell can have a bad game and the Seahawks can still win. Not many quarterbacks have that luxury. That doesn't mean Russell Wilson sucks, it's just stating a fact that cannot be contested.


And what QB on a team that's a Super Bowl contender doesn't have that "luxury" to have a bad game or two and still win a game?????

The Patriots, the Broncos, the Saints... what do you consider a contender? The defending champion Ravens, the Packers... need I go on?



The fact that Andrew Luck has been Tebowing it up in several games in terms of the defense keeping it close to put them in position to have a game winning drive in the 4th quarter in games where Luck has had subpar completion percentages and has been erratic etc, shows that he does not fit this exemption.

Tom Brady has been subpar almost this whole season and the Patriots are on pace to get a bye week. Peyton Maning the one year he won the Super Bowl had twice as many turnovers as TDs in that post-season. And Saints haven't won a game when Drew Brees has played poorly?

Eli Manning and Big Ben during their Super Bowl years, are you kidding me? They never had bad games? They had whole seasons with more turnovers than TDs and they have both won a Super Bowl in a year where they had more turnovers than TDs over the course of the season.

The Russell Wilson hate is hilarious.


Last edited by BBIB on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, it's not Russell Wilson hate.
Can't you see the irrationality when you take a fact, that is that Wilson plays for a good team, as hate for him? You're taking offense to something that isn't meant to offend anything.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Dude, it's not Russell Wilson hate.
Can't you see the irrationality when you take a fact, that is that Wilson plays for a good team, as hate for him? You're taking offense to something that isn't meant to offend anything.


Way to ignore all the points that counter the ridiculous notion that Russell Wilson is the only QB on a team that can win if he doesn't play well

Irrationality is comparing Russell Wilson to Trent Dilfer given the production and talent of Russell Wilson. Irrationality is suggesting that no good QB is on a team that can win without them playing well.

There are several QBs who have rings who have played poorly in several games yet their teams still find a way to win because that's the point of a SUper Bowl cast.

If your team is not good enough to win if you have an off game that probably isn't a Super Bowl contender because most teams don't have a QB who is going to have a perfect post-season.

And considering his pace to be like top 2-3 all-time in passer rating and passing TDs for first 2 years in the league, how many bad games has he really had to begin with?
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Phire wrote:
Dude, it's not Russell Wilson hate.
Can't you see the irrationality when you take a fact, that is that Wilson plays for a good team, as hate for him? You're taking offense to something that isn't meant to offend anything.


Way to ignore all the points that counter the ridiculous notion that Russell Wilson is the only QB on a team that can win if he doesn't play well

Irrationality is comparing Russell Wilson to Trent Dilfer given the production and talent of Russell Wilson. Irrationality is suggesting that no good QB is on a team that can win without them playing well.

There are several QBs who have rings who have played poorly in several games yet their teams still find a way to win because that's the point of a SUper Bowl cast.

If your team is not good enough to win if you have an off game that probably isn't a Super Bowl contender because most teams don't have a QB who is going to have a perfect post-season.

And considering his pace to be like top 2-3 all-time in passer rating and passing TDs for first 2 years in the league, how many bad games has he really had to begin with?

I didn't ignore anything, the quote I quoted was just that one sentence, by the time I submitted it you had already gone and edited it to say more.

And I'm not going to argue with someone who is so extremely biased to the situation. Nobody said Wilson was the only one who has that luxury. Nobody even said he wasn't a good quarterback.
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RainbowCarebear wrote:
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Russell can have a bad game and the Seahawks can still win. Not many quarterbacks have that luxury. That doesn't mean Russell Wilson sucks, it's just stating a fact that cannot be contested.


Did you not just post this earlier or did I edit your post? Laughing

How much in plain English could this be stated? It's ok to admit you are wrong on this one. I do it all the time. Its not that hard

Admit you are wrong when you stated "not many QBs have that luxury" in terms of someone having a bad game and their team still winning a game.

The QBs who don't have that luxury probably aren't on teams that can win a Super Bowl because not many QBs are perfect the entire post-season.

And given Russell Wilson's consistency which is reflected in his career efficiency and production, he hasn't had that many "bad games"

That's why he's on pace to finish top 2 all-time in passing TDs for first 2 years in league and top 3 all-time in passer rating over the same span. Only guys ahead of him were guys who were HOFers (Marino/Manning) or fringe HOFer (Kurt Warner)
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Phire wrote:
Russell can have a bad game and the Seahawks can still win. Not many quarterbacks have that luxury. That doesn't mean Russell Wilson sucks, it's just stating a fact that cannot be contested.


Did you not just post this earlier or did I edit your post? Laughing

How much in plain English could this be stated? It's ok to admit you are wrong on this one. I do it all the time. Its not that hard

Admit you are wrong when you stated "not many QBs have that luxury" in terms of someone having a bad game and their team still winning a game.

The QBs who don't have that luxury probably aren't on teams that can win a Super Bowl because not many QBs are perfect the entire post-season.

And given Russell Wilson's consistency which is reflected in his career efficiency and production, he hasn't had that many "bad games"

That's why he's on pace to finish top 2 all-time in passing TDs for first 2 years in league and top 3 all-time in passer rating over the same span. Only guys ahead of him were guys who were HOFers (Marino/Manning) or fringe HOFer (Kurt Warner)

Dude, take a look at the words.
Quote:
Way to ignore all the points that counter the ridiculous notion that Russell Wilson is the only QB on a team that can win if he doesn't play well.

Quote:
Not many quarterbacks have that luxury.

I don't know how you're interpreting "not many" as "the only one". How many shots have you had tonight?
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theuntouchable wrote:
Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Only for the quick and lucky.

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AZ_Eaglesfan


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Phire wrote:
Russell can have a bad game and the Seahawks can still win. Not many quarterbacks have that luxury. That doesn't mean Russell Wilson sucks, it's just stating a fact that cannot be contested.


Did you not just post this earlier or did I edit your post? Laughing

How much in plain English could this be stated? It's ok to admit you are wrong on this one. I do it all the time. Its not that hard

Admit you are wrong when you stated "not many QBs have that luxury" in terms of someone having a bad game and their team still winning a game.

The QBs who don't have that luxury probably aren't on teams that can win a Super Bowl because not many QBs are perfect the entire post-season.

And given Russell Wilson's consistency which is reflected in his career efficiency and production, he hasn't had that many "bad games"

That's why he's on pace to finish top 2 all-time in passing TDs for first 2 years in league and top 3 all-time in passer rating over the same span. Only guys ahead of him were guys who were HOFers (Marino/Manning) or fringe HOFer (Kurt Warner)

I am pretty sure that post says not many QBs have that luxury. Meaning their are ones who also have it. Kaep, Peyton, and Smith are just a few QBs who can have bad games and win, but they are in the minority. That was Phire's point. If Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, and many more QB's play badly, their teams have next to no chance of winning.
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eagles18


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB is extremely biased toward Wilson, it's disgusting. We're not even Colts' fans and we see the greatness in Andrew Luck. Were not saying Russell Wilson is a bad quarterback, he's not, but every GM in this league would choose Luck if they were looking for their QBOTF
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:

I am pretty sure that post says not many QBs have that luxury. Meaning their are ones who also have it. Kaep, Peyton, and Smith are just a few QBs who can have bad games and win, but they are in the minority. That was Phire's point. If Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, and many more QB's play badly, their teams have next to no chance of winning.


I'm pretty sure my point in showing his logic was laughable because he could not have picked a worse year to say Brees and Brady can't win having a bad game when that is a total lie given their defenses improvement this year. Brees had a horrible game against Tampa Bay when Tampa Bay still had a pulse and the Saints pulled it out. The Saints defense is ranked 5th in the league in scoring this year, just surrendering 2 more PPG than the Seahawks. Tom Brady has subpar stats for most of the entire season yet the Patriots have been winning games. Their defense is ranked 7th, and has at times looked as good as those championship caliber units they had in the early 2000s.

I again point to the days of Big Ben and Eli during their Super Bowl runs. They had entire seasons with more bad than good in terms of TDs and turnovers.

And Andrew Luck hasn't had a bad game that the Colts have won? Really look at his career numbers and tell me that especially in games where he has had sub part completion percentage and not that great TD/INT ratio.


So I pointed out

A)It's not even factually accurate to say that other great QBs or assumed to be future great QBs haven't had bad games and still won

B)It's not even intuitively accurate given some of those teams defensive rank and even the fact that even sometimes when a defense isn't ranked high they find a way to keep a team in the game by playing above their rank

C)The fact that Russell Wilson has the efficiency stats he does shows he hasn't exactly had that many poor games to begin with, so if anything his team hasn't had to carry him in a "bad" performance any more than his contemporaries


Last edited by BBIB on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles18 wrote:
BBIB is extremely biased toward Wilson, it's disgusting. We're not even Colts' fans and we see the greatness in Andrew Luck. Were not saying Russell Wilson is a bad quarterback, he's not, but every GM in this league would choose Luck if they were looking for their QBOTF


If you go by majority opinion, of course most people would say Luck over Wilson. And it's only based off that majority opinion based on the PROJECTION of their careers before they ever played a snap. Same majority that would have thought it was laughable for me to say Russell Wilson could even be considered a top 3 young QB just a year ago. He was slated as a career backup.

Even in the NFL General thread, no Luck proponent has proposed a single argument why Luck is decisively better than Wilson.

The only thing they do is point to supporting casts, but there is no way they would be saying that if Luck had Russell Wilson's numbers on the Seahawks and was on pace to be 2nd all-time in passing TDs and 3rd in passer rating in NFL history for first two years in the league.

They would point to the fact that there wasn't a single category that Russell Wilson had the edge over Luck if Russell Wilson had Luck's numbers on the Colts.

And they would have been right.

Meanwhile, Russell Wilson has Luck matched in virtually every metric available in production, and some of them by decisive margins yet he's "CLEARLY" inferior
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eagles18


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
eagles18 wrote:
BBIB is extremely biased toward Wilson, it's disgusting. We're not even Colts' fans and we see the greatness in Andrew Luck. Were not saying Russell Wilson is a bad quarterback, he's not, but every GM in this league would choose Luck if they were looking for their QBOTF


If you go by majority opinion, of course most people would say Luck over Wilson. And it's only based off that majority opinion based on the PROJECTION of their careers before they ever played a snap. Same majority that would have thought it was laughable for me to say Russell Wilson could even be considered a top 3 young QB just a year ago. He was slated as a career backup.

Even in the NFL General thread, no Luck proponent has proposed a single argument why Luck is decisively better than Wilson.

The only thing they do is point to supporting casts, but there is no way they would be saying that if Luck had Russell Wilson's numbers on the Seahawks and was on pace to be 2nd all-time in passing TDs and 3rd in passer rating in NFL history for first two years in the league.

They would point to the fact that there wasn't a single category that Russell Wilson had the edge over Luck if Russell Wilson had Luck's numbers on the Colts.

And they would have been right.

Meanwhile, Russell Wilson has Luck matched in virtually every metric available in production, and some of them by decisive margins yet he's "CLEARLY" inferior


I wouldn't say Wilson is inferior, I would just choose Andrew Luck. He's bigger, stronger, and just as mobile. Both quarterbacks can take their teams deep into the playoffs and both teams are luck to have them. Really it's just personal preference.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles18 wrote:

I wouldn't say Wilson is inferior, I would just choose Andrew Luck. He's bigger, stronger, and just as mobile. Both quarterbacks can take their teams deep into the playoffs and both teams are luck to have them. Really it's just personal preference.


Here again is that amazing contradiction

There is no way something can be both


Player A is BY FAR better than Player B and it's not even close

AND

Player A over Player B is just personal preference (aka a coin toss)


People are proposing the BY FAR argument here and abroad and when pressed to back it up with facts, they just say "personal preference" or point to the cast as a cop out, etc
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eagles18


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
eagles18 wrote:

I wouldn't say Wilson is inferior, I would just choose Andrew Luck. He's bigger, stronger, and just as mobile. Both quarterbacks can take their teams deep into the playoffs and both teams are luck to have them. Really it's just personal preference.


Here again is that amazing contradiction

There is no way something can be both


Player A is BY FAR better than Player B and it's not even close

AND

Player A over Player B is just personal preference (aka a coin toss)


People are proposing the BY FAR argument here and abroad and when pressed to back it up with facts, they just say "personal preference" or point to the cast as a cop out, etc


I'm just being nice about Wilson because I don't want to go on and on with you about this subject and neither does anyone else. #getoveritbro
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