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Bills vs. Chiefs GDT, Awkward Edition
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Who Yah Got?
Thad to the Bone/Tuel Time/Duh..Flynning!
40%
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Alex "They love me, they really really love me" Smith
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marshawn lynch


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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Location: Syracuse NY
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goodwin was down by contact before he lost the ball. Was a catch pretty easily.
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Maxmw22


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DKTurtle51 wrote:
Maxmw22 wrote:
If their is anything good to take away from this game, I am definitely excited about the defense and offensive line. It's hard for me to think of what position I would even want to draft? playmaking TE? OG? I dunno. I think we aren't that far away from the playoffs for a 3-6 team. We just need E.J. to get healthy and fill in a couple holes.
I think we are in a spot to take the best playmaker at almost any position. I wouldn't touch OG in the 1st round no matter what though.


Really? I was thinking trade down (I know everyone says this, but this year with the top heavy talent and QB's coming out, might be easier than most years) and take an OG or S for Byrd's replacement. I wouldn't definitely take a look at a OG if we get back into the early 20's.
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bigbadbuff23835


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshawn lynch wrote:
Goodwin was down by contact before he lost the ball. Was a catch pretty easily.


I agree, I think I said that in the midst of one of my rants. Sal Cappacio said the same thing.

It reminds me of the Stevie "drop" against Cincy two years ago.
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leeevans83d


Joined: 03 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is a catch anymore?
The league would probably be better off with judgment calls with catches like today. Show that catch to any normal fan of the game (without knowing the exact rules in the rulebook) and they would say that is a definite catch.
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Tk3


Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maxmw22 wrote:
If their is anything good to take away from this game, I am definitely excited about the defense and offensive line. It's hard for me to think of what position I would even want to draft? playmaking TE? OG? I dunno. I think we aren't that far away from the playoffs for a 3-6 team. We just need E.J. to get healthy and fill in a couple holes.


I would still look to the O-line.. Today they looked good, other games they havent..

Cordy Glenn is versatile, which could allow us to look at the best OT or OG available..

Byrd could be gone, we are shallow at corner.. I would say a defensive back early would make sense as well..
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Tk3


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshawn lynch wrote:
Goodwin was down by contact before he lost the ball. Was a catch pretty easily.


The concept of "down by contact" is really only valid for a fumble.. There is no doubt that his hitting the ground would have prevented it from being a fumble, but we are talking about "completion" not "fumble"

The best thing I can relate to is the Calvin Johnson touchdown a couple seasons back (reversed to an incomplete).. You have to clearly have possession all the way to the end.. I think if he had clear control the whole way to the ground, then let go after being on the ground it would have been a catch.. But the ball was moving the whole time he was on his way to the ground..

In my opinion, people may be confusing "the ball hasn't touched the ground yet" with "control of the ball".. In my eyes, he did not have true control of the ball the whole way to the ground, but its just one mans opinion..

To me though, this all could have been avoided if the QB had just gotten the ball out in front like he should have..
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x0x


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was up with the coach's interview? Does he just have poor social skills?
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Thelonebillsfan


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

x0x wrote:
What was up with the coach's interview? Does he just have poor social skills?


Marrone doesn't interview well after losses.
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BillsGuy82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we hung around another game and loss, when we should of won. I still see improvement but we must take that next step soon.

I really like the pieces we have on defense and I still think Pittsburgh is a winnable game
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Piquel


Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 518
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeEvans wrote:
DKTurtle51 wrote:
bigbadbuff23835 wrote:
[
By the way,

"Sal Capaccio ‏@SalSports 1m
Marrone said he was told the first time Goodwin bounced off turf he lost the ball. OK, am I the only one who never saw anything like that?!"

Now what.
Do they mean lose it as in bobble it? He did bobble it when he first hit if I recall correctly.
It was still in his possession and never touched the ground, then he readjusted it while he was lying on the ground with a Chief player on top of him.



Good hard fought game guys.


About Goodwin catch/no catch........
From rewatching it a few times (Love DVR, First NFL season with it)

If refs are calling it incomplete because of when he lost complete control of the ball, IE "Seconds" after he hit and rolled on ground, Then it was a complete blown call. Maybe one of the worst ever!

But what I saw and think Sal's quote backs up is that ball was in receivers hands but after he hit ground it shifted ?somehow? and was tucked between his elbow and body. I think refs made a judgement call that he bobbled it. They tend to error towards incomplete pass if their is any movement of the ball from where it was before hitting the ground vs where it is after. The ball never hitting the ground didn't even come into play here. If Goodwin would've had the ball securely in his hands and the ball was the first thing to hit the ground, and Goodwin keeps it secured the whole time through the fall it would be ruled a catch. But if the ball moves any even without hitting the ground it will be ruled incomplete. I hate the rule. I also think that Goodwin had the ball secured and was tucking it as he fell and it should've been ruled a catch. But it wasn't a terrible call, just a bad one. In game speed it is hard to tell if he lost control or not. All angles I seen didn't show conclusive evidence of anything. If it would've been ruled a catch on the field IR wouldn't of overturned it.



Things I learned about the Bills.
You guys have the best OL KC's played this year.
You're D is good.
Something funny is up with your RB's stiff arms. They were shrugging off KC Defenders like flys.
Tuel is not a good QB. When people play the KC has played 3rd stringers I will coincide the point for Tuel. I can't defend much of his play as good.
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LeeEvans


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Piquel wrote:
LeeEvans wrote:
DKTurtle51 wrote:
bigbadbuff23835 wrote:
[
By the way,

"Sal Capaccio ‏@SalSports 1m
Marrone said he was told the first time Goodwin bounced off turf he lost the ball. OK, am I the only one who never saw anything like that?!"

Now what.
Do they mean lose it as in bobble it? He did bobble it when he first hit if I recall correctly.
It was still in his possession and never touched the ground, then he readjusted it while he was lying on the ground with a Chief player on top of him.



Good hard fought game guys.


About Goodwin catch/no catch........
From rewatching it a few times (Love DVR, First NFL season with it)

If refs are calling it incomplete because of when he lost complete control of the ball, IE "Seconds" after he hit and rolled on ground, Then it was a complete blown call. Maybe one of the worst ever!

But what I saw and think Sal's quote backs up is that ball was in receivers hands but after he hit ground it shifted ?somehow? and was tucked between his elbow and body. I think refs made a judgement call that he bobbled it. They tend to error towards incomplete pass if their is any movement of the ball from where it was before hitting the ground vs where it is after. The ball never hitting the ground didn't even come into play here. If Goodwin would've had the ball securely in his hands and the ball was the first thing to hit the ground, and Goodwin keeps it secured the whole time through the fall it would be ruled a catch. But if the ball moves any even without hitting the ground it will be ruled incomplete. I hate the rule. I also think that Goodwin had the ball secured and was tucking it as he fell and it should've been ruled a catch. But it wasn't a terrible call, just a bad one. In game speed it is hard to tell if he lost control or not. All angles I seen didn't show conclusive evidence of anything. If it would've been ruled a catch on the field IR wouldn't of overturned it.



Things I learned about the Bills.
You guys have the best OL KC's played this year.
You're D is good.
Something funny is up with your RB's stiff arms. They were shrugging off KC Defenders like flys.
Tuel is not a good QB. When people play the KC has played 3rd stringers I will coincide the point for Tuel. I can't defend much of his play as good.
Maybe I don't understand the rules but so what if he shifted the ball once he hit the ground? The ball was still not on the ground so wouldn't it be considered a live football or at least in play? That just doesn't make sense to me, if he went down with the ball, has it in his arm, readjusts it all without the ball coming in contact with the ground I just don't see how it isn't a catch. There is no saying we would have scored after that catch but the game was essentially lost on that call.
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KC_Guy


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: catch or not - here's the Rule Book. Check Article 3 and 4 and especially read the note after Art. 4.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/11_Rule8_ForwardPass_BackPass_Fumble.pdf

Can't review the play but IIRC he held the ball somewhat oddly against his shoulder when he went down. Not sure whether this qualifies as "securing control of the ball in his hands or arms".
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leeevans83d


Joined: 03 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still pissed.

BTW, Coach Marrone is awesome. If he can't turn this thing around in Buffalo, nobody can IMO.
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Piquel


Joined: 19 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeEvans wrote:
Maybe I don't understand the rules but so what if he shifted the ball once he hit the ground? The ball was still not on the ground so wouldn't it be considered a live football or at least in play? That just doesn't make sense to me, if he went down with the ball, has it in his arm, readjusts it all without the ball coming in contact with the ground I just don't see how it isn't a catch. There is no saying we would have scored after that catch but the game was essentially lost on that call.



I don't think the people who wrote the rule even understand it.


The refs had to think the ball hit the ground at some point (even if Goodwin had it secured and that is what caused it to move from his hands to "tucked" between elbow and chest. In that micro second where the ball is touching ground, and migrating from hands to "tucked" is where it gets ruled incomplete.

To take it to extremes to make point....
Imagine a player dives fully extended to make a catch. He secures the ball in both hands on the way to the ground. When he/ball hit the ground the ball bounces off ground and pops out of players hands 5 feet up into the air (ala kinda like a spike does) Even if someone catches the ball before it hits ground the second time it will still be ruled incomplete because of the split second the ball is touching ground and leaving the players control.

The refs think something like that happened on Goodwin's catch, but instead of the ball bouncing 5 feet up into air, it moved 6 inches from Goodwin's hands to in between his body and elbow.

Again that's not what I saw, just what I think refs saw. I think Goodwin was tucking the ball(on purpose) as he was headed to ground and kept it secured.
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BillsGuy82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

leeevans83d wrote:
I'm still pissed.

BTW, Coach Marrone is awesome. If he can't turn this thing around in Buffalo, nobody can IMO.


Yea Marrone is learning too.. I think we found a keeper here, has us playing hard.
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