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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22290
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: 2nd Quarter Mock Reply with quote

So nearly eight games down and with COD coming out on Monday night I might not have time to do this after Monday’s game lol…so here is my 2nd quarter mock of the year…

Resign…

Jay Cutler
Josh McCown
Tony Fiammetta
Joe Anderson ERFA
Matt Slauson
Eben Britton
Henry Melton
Landon Cohen
David Bass
James Anderson
Larry Grant
Blake Costanzo
Charles Tillman
Zack Bowman
Sherrick McManis
Craig Steltz
Patrick Mannelly
Robbie Gould
Devin Hester

A few notes on the resignings…I expect Cutler to get around $16 million over the next 4 years too allow us to develop someone down the road in a couple of years…McCown is a vet min player/coach…Fiammetta has done a solid job at FB…again vet min contract…Anderson is nice depth and special teams value…I think Slauson gets a 2 or 3 year contract been solid for us this year…Britton is depth on the Oline as well as a blocking TE option another vet min deal…Melton I think gets a couple of years too prove his is back to 100% and we really need him to be…Cohen has been solid for us another vet min…Bass looks solid out there keep him around and let him compete for a roster spot…Anderson has been solid and gets another year…Grant & Castanzo are ST aces that come back on vet min deals…Tillman is a 2 year rental until we can get the young guys up to speed…no one better to learn from…Bowman McManis & Steltz are against ST first depth 2nd players who come back for vet min…Mannelly continues to be rock solid as the long snapper…Gould gets a new long term deal…Hester comes back only on the right contract…that being vet min…if not we move on.

Let Walk…

Jordan Palmer
Michael Bush
Dante Rosario
Earl Bennett
Roberto Garza
Jonathan Scott
Corey Wootton
Zach Minter
Christian Tupou
Nate Collins
DJ Williams
Julius Peppers
Tim Jennings
Kelvin Hayden
Major Wright
Anthony Walters
Adam Podlesh

Notes on the cuts…Palmer is a no brainer when Cutler comes back…Bush is due $1.5 million with another $1 million in the form of a roster bonus next year…we can find a rookie to do his job more effectively…Rosario just isn’t up to standard…Bennett is still a rock solid WR but he has been banged up…doesn’t have the elite speed we need to add to this offence and is due to make $2.3 million…Garza has been solid this year but it’s time to move on…Scott was solid in relief duty last year but he has been banged up and we keep Britton over him…tough to let Wootton go considering his selfless act to move inside to DT this year but I think we need a special pass rusher and he isn’t it so we use part of the money we would have spent on him to find an upgrade…Minter loses out too Cohen in terms of depth… Tupou is a no brainer…Collins looked good in relief duty when Melton went down but two UTs coming off ACLs isn’t a great idea…Peppers clearly can’t be on the team next year considering his level of play and cap number…Williams was a one year rental until Bostic was ready…Franklin loses out to more experienced depth…by far the biggest loss for us is Jennings…he has been great for us but we need the money to invest in getting younger and more talented up front which is where this D will improve the quickest…without a pass rush we don’t stand a chance so Jennings is the tough decision we have to make…Hayden can’t stay healthy…Wright hasn’t shown enough to warrant the type of contract he will be looking for…Walters sucks…Podlesh is due $1.4 million next year and again could be replaced by a decent rookie.

Free Agents…

Offensive signings…



TE…Garrett Graham…6-3” 243lbs…

Martellus Bennett has been a great add to the offence this year and have given us a real option over the middle…but we have zero depth at the TE spot right now and as much as the D has too come first when improving this offseason adding some more weapons on the offence shouldn’t be over looked…Graham is your classic Texans TE…undersized…not overly quick…but just gets the job done in a solid manner…Graham is a solid blocker and can line up in multiple positions…he gives us another solid if unspectacular target over the middle…I think we get him for the money we saved cutting Earl Bennett



C…Brian De La Puente…6-3” 305lbs…

The draft class at centre this year is very average…luckily enough the free agent centre pool looks as if it has the potential to be strong with Jonathan Goodwin, Ryan Wendell, Fernando Velasco, Jon Asamoah who could be converted to centre and the crown jewel of the pool Alex Mack who would be the guy I would love to bring in…but Brian De La Puente makes as much sense this year as Jermon Bushrod made last year…Kromer knows the guy inside and out due to the fact he was the one who developed him in New Orleans…he knows he isn’t a world beater but is a rock solid professional who is going to get the job done consistently and gives us a pivot man at a vital position for the next 5-7 years…he doesn’t have a ton of experience given he has only been a starter for three years but all the experience he does have is in Kromer scheme that he knows well so that will give him a leg up in terms of coming in and starting as well as gaining the respect of the other Olinemen we have… Brian De La Puente shouldn’t cost us a ton of money and with the Saints cap situation looking so bad I doubt they can even make a bid for him…Chicago is a very logical fit for him.

Defensive Signings…



DE…Greg Hardy…6-4” 290lbs…

Even as late as a few weeks ago I figured the best road we could go down was to resigning as many of our current defensive players as possible…sign 3 or 4 mid-level free agents who would improve the depth of our team and then hit the draft for players who we really thought could develop into stars and provide us with the pass rush to get us back to where we were…now I’m really not so sure that we can do that if we want to get our Defence back to an elite level…I don’t think we can go into next season relaying on a rookie to provide us with high quality pass rush…because if that rookie can’t live up to those expectation we can’t win…no pass rush = no defence in this scheme…it is that simple and even tho signing a guy like Hardy means sacrificing guys like Peppers, Wootton, Jennings & Wright it is well worth it if we can get back to pressuring the QB into making the mistakes that our D can take advantage of…Hardy is maybe one of the most underrated defensive players in the NFL…he has a unique combination of size, strength, get off & finishing ability…he does some of the key things you look for when it comes too spending $10+ million a year on a Dlinemen…he will get you sacks but even when he doesn’t he plays with consistency and can affect the QB without getting too him…he is great against the run…he can play 3 of the 4 down linemen positions given his size and strength…he adds a swaggers to this D and an aggressiveness that we are currently lacking up front…we need to start rebuilding this D after losing Urlacher and with guys like Peppers going…Tillman & Briggs getting up there in age…what better to start the rebuild than signing a 25 year old proven DE.



DT…Linval Joseph…6-4” 323lbs…

More investment on getting younger and bigger one the Dline…I don’t think Joseph is going to get real big bucks because of his lack of pass rush ability so the money we save on the a fore mentioned guys should be enough to cover this move as well as Hardy…Joseph is the type of player who can help out others around him…his size makes him tough to move in the running game at the POA and allows his LBs to run free without guards getting to the 2nd level…the stat sheet will never look great but that’s not his job…I think Melton coming back off an ACL would find it much easier playing with a true NT that will free him up a little more…it also allows us to play a fresh Stephen Paea at UT more often which would be a real big benefit to us…much like Hardy Joseph is only 25 years old and will be a building block for many years to come.




S…Mike Mitchell…6-1” 218lbs…

Mitchell is probably best known for being the player the Bears were supposedly targeting in the 2nd round of the 2nd round of the 2009 NFL draft before the Raiders shocked everyone by taking him so highly…thankfully we didn’t miss out on much with Mitchell struggling to gain a starting role in Oakland…last offseason he left Oakland and signed a one year deal with the Panthers who have been crying out for safety help but it still seems like Mitchell is only a 3rd stringer…I think it’s pretty clear he will never be an impact safety but if we can resign Craig Steltz to be our backup safety I would love to bring Mitchell here as a special teams ace…he has great size and speed and is an explosive hitter who could really make an impact on teams.

Draft…

*Trade*…I have the Bears finishing 8-8 at this point of the season so picking around #17…if we are able to secure the signing of Hardy after letting guys like Peppers, Wootton, Wright & Jennings all walk then we need to move down and get ourselves some more picks to invest mainly on our D…I think we will be able to get a move down with the 49ers…they have two 2nd round picks & two 3rd round picks as well as having only a few holes right now…I see them being aggressive and going after a playmaking WR in this draft…trading pick #17 (950 points) for the 49ers pick at #28 & #60 (combined 960) would give them the chance to land a guy like Marqise Lee.

Round 1…



CB…Kyle Fuller…6-0” 190lbs…Virginia Tech…

As I wrote before I think the quickest way to turn this D around is to add some quality Dline talent…if we can pick up Greg Hardy & Linval Joseph and get Henry Melton back at 100% we will have went a long way to getting towards that…but to sign guys like Hardy & Joseph we had to sacrifice some of our talent in the defensive backfield letting Major Wright and Tim Jennings walk in FA…we have to make a move to replace those guys and especially Jennings who will be a big lose at the LCB spot…to fill that gap we grab a guy in Kyle Fuller who’s skill set is a perfect fit for what we are looking to do defensively…Fuller at 6-0” 190lbs brings prototype size and length to the position…he plays with outstanding instincts which cover up his lack of elite athletic ability…finds himself in the right position far more often than not and looks like a natural in zone coverage being able to read QBs as well as any CB in the country…Fuller also brings a rare ability to play the run getting into the backfield far more than most CBs do…he shows toughness and technique to get off blocks quickly and the tacking technique to wrap ball carries up in the backfield…in many ways his skill set is reminiscent of Antoine Winfield and if we got the same kind of career out of him it would be a very good pick for us.

Round 2…



WR…Brandin Cooks…5-10” 185lbs…Oregon State…

The offence this season has shown flashes of brilliance…we have seen where we could be headed given the weapons we have in Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett & Forte once we get some more consistency and experience within the system…I even have a lot of confidence that Marquess Wilson could develop into another quality outside WR down the road and feel Joe Anderson coming back could replace the outgoing Earl Bennett as a solid slot receiver on certain downs…the biggest reason for releasing Bennett tho is that he doesn’t have the game changing speed that we need to take this offence to the next level…finding a WR with elite quickness who can offer a different skill set to the monster outside receivers we have would allow us to attack teams in so many different ways…Cooks is exactly that type of WR…he has a compact build at 5-10” 185lbs but is strong with it and isn’t scared to go across the middle of the field…his speed & quickness is outstanding and he uses it to creates separation with ease…very reliable hands and great YAC ability to go along with punt returning experience…type of player who you can get it into his hands and he will make something happen…has shown the ability to be extremely productive playing inside or out…he is the missing piece for this offence.

Round 2…



CB…Justin Gilbert…6-0” 200lbs…Oklahoma State…

Even before this season CB was a pretty big need for us because of age and depth…we let Jennings walk and replace him with Fuller but that isn’t really enough in a division with Aaron Rodgers and Matthew Stafford…we resign Peanut Tillman for another year or two but we have to cover ourselves against injury and develop a guy to take over from Peanut when he id done…as I said before the CB class is the real depth of this class and Gilbert is another player who’s skill set really fits what we wants in a CB…another guy with prototype size at 6-0” 200lbs…Gilbert is a better athlete than a guy like Fuller displaying excellent straight line speed as well as COD skills…his footwork could use some refinement but athletically he has everything you want in a CB…Gilbert has also displayed the ability to be a real ball hawk and his experience as a kick returner makes him very dangerous to take an interception back to the house…against the run he uses his size to be an effective tackler and plays with solid aggression…adding both Fuller and Gilbert to the CB position would allow both to compete for the start at LCB with the loser competing with Frey for the Nickel back role as well as adding depth across the board meaning Bowman & McManis can concentrate on ST roles.

Round 3…



S…Deone Bucannon…6-1” 215…Washington State…

Another round another DB…this time we find a replacement and potential upgrade over Major Wright to finally give us the impact safety we have been lacking since we lost Mike Brown…Bucannon is one of my favourite prospects in this year’s draft who is hidden away at Washington State where most think there is no talent on that D at all…he has the skill set to be a real combo safety who can do it all…against the pass Bucannon shows real range to cover the field as well as coverage awareness and playmaking ability when the ball is in the air with 14 interceptions as well as 14 PBUs in 46 games…he can force a QB to hold the ball for longer because he is able to cover so much rage with his long striding running style…against the run he uses his size at 6-1” 215lbs to come up and lay wood in the running game with some real big hits…some of which have drawn flags but I would rather have a tough physical strong safety who gets flagged every now than then than a soft one who can’t tackle…his tackling technique is very good also and he understands when it is best to just wrap a guy up rather than risking a kill shot…he is the emotional & vocal leader of the State D and would bring that kind of leadership here which is something we lack a little bit of…his experience means he could step in and start from day one.

Round 4…



DE…James Gayle…6-4” 268lbs…Virginia Tech…

After adding Greg Hardy to the DE position as well as picking up Joseph and getting Melton back from injury to play DT we have went a long way to sorting out our pass rushing problems…but again to sign guys like Hardy & Joseph it meant moving on from Peppers & Wootton which leaves us with little depth at DE…we have Cornelius Washington who IMO could really develop into a solid pass rusher if given the chance…David Bass has looked solid in his limited action and the big hope is Shea McClellin finally kicks on and produces more…but we need competition at those DE spots and hopefully we hit on a starter in the middle rounds…James Gayle is a real low risk high reward type of player in the 4th round…he has ideal size at 6-4” 268lbs…he is an unbelievable athlete reportedly running a 4.6 forty with a 39.5” vertical…the one thing Gayle doesn’t have is great sack production with only 19 sacks in 48 career games so far…but he does have 45 QB pressures in those 48 games…add in more talent around him to stop QBs stepping up and he could turn many more of those pressures into sacks…even if he doesn’t we have the DBs to take advantage of errors that the QB might make from those pressures.

Round 5…



RB…Carlos Hyde…6-0” 235lbs…Ohio State…

There have been a few occasions this season where the easiest thing we could have done was run the ball on 3rd or 4th and short and pick up a 1st down or even a TD…and we haven’t done it…some may be down to Trestman’s playing calling but I think most is down to the fact we don’t have faith in our RBs to get us that tough yard…Matt Forte is an elite RB…he does everything as a very high level with the one exception being his ability to plough straight forward and get a yard when the D are expecting it…that’s why we brought Michael Bush here but he has proved mostly ineffective and being due $2.5 million next year means he has to be cut…we use this pick to find a back who has the skill set to get us that tough yard…Hyde is a big body who doesn’t do much dancing in the backfield…he hits the hole with authority lowering his pad level and runs guys over to get to where he wants to be…he is exactly the type of complimentary back we need to go along with Forte.

Round 6…



QB…Jeff Mathews…6-3” 220lbs…Cornell…

Josh McCown will go into next year at 35 years old…I have us keeping him here because of his relationship with Cutler and his ability to teach on the practice field…but it’s time to find someone not only to back up Cutler but to develop long term…Mathews might not be well known to many but he has the physical tools to be a starting QB in the NFL…Mathews has a great arm and can make all the throws…he has the type of size you are looking for in a QB and enough athletic ability to get himself out of trouble…where he lacks right now is in his mental makeup with bad reads and poor decisions.…his footwork is something else that needs worked on but Trestman is a QB whisperer and given him someone to develop who has physical talent is what he will want.

Round 6…



P…Pat O'Donnell…6-5” 220lbs…Miami…

O’Donnell has just transferred to Miami from Cincinnati…not only does he have a big leg averaging just over 47 YPP but he is also a quality athlete reportedly running a 4.6 forty with a 10-yard split of 1.53…355-pound bench, broad jumps 9’2”…with Adam Podlesh due to make $1.4 million next year it’s time to move on.

Key UDFA Pickups…



DE…Ethan Westbrooks…6-4” 275lbs…West Texas A&M…

Westbrooks has a interesting skill set lining up as both a DE and UT for A&M…he was highly productive in 2012 posting an incredible 28 TFL & 19.5 Sacks in 15 games…this season he hasn’t been quite as impressive statistically thought 8 games but still has 14.5 TFL & 4 sacks altho he regularly faces constant double and sometimes triple teams …he comes in here to compete with guys like Bass & McClellin for a roster spot.



TE…Ted Bolser…6-6” 255lbs…Indiana…

Bolser is a solid yet unspectacular all round TE in the mold of a Kevin Boss type…he adds a solid #3 TE to the ranks who lines up for Indiana at multiple spots.


Depth Chart…

QB…Jay Cutler…Jeff Mathews…Josh McCown
RB…Matt Forte…Carlos Hyde…Michael Ford
FB…Tony Fiammetta
WR…Brandon Marshall…Marquess Wilson
WR…Alshon Jeffery…Joe Anderson
Slot…Brandin Cooks…Eric Weems…Devin Hester
TE…Martellus Bennett…Garrett Graham…Ted Bolser
LT…Jermon Bushrod
LG…Matt Slauson…James Brown
C…Brian De La Puente…Taylor Boggs
RG…Kyle Long
RT…Jordan Mills…Eben Britton

LE…James Gayle…Shea McClellin/David Bass
UT…Henry Melton…Stephen Paea
NT…Linval Joseph…Landon Cohen
RE…Greg Hardy…Cornelius Washington/Ethan Westbrooks
SLB…James Anderson…Blake Costanzo
MLB…Jon Bostic…Larry Grant
WLB…Lance Briggs…Khaseem Greene
NB…Isaiah Frey…Sherrick McManis
CB…Charles Tillman…Justin Gilbert
CB…Kyle Fuller…Zach Bowman
SS…Deone Bucannon…Craig Steltz
FS…Chris Conte…Mike Mitchell

K…Robbie Gould
P…Pat O’Donnell
LS…Patrick Mannelly
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9602
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. You let a lot of guys walk that I would think about keeping, notably Jennings and Wootton. If we are going to do that we need to be very active in free agency.

2. Greg Hardy is awesome and while I do not think that he hits free agency I have no problem with the Bears signing an impact free agent rusher. Michael Johnson seems more likely to hit the market and I think he is just a notch below Hardy.

3. I do not want a 4th round pick starting at DE for us. Especially considering our issues this season. There is only 1 legitimate DE on the team the ret are potential players and 1st round busts.

4. I think a big NT would look very good in this defense. Our lack of size and power is concerning.

5. A lot of investment in the secondary which is nice, but our safety position is still a liability.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. If you could only get 3 guys under contact before the free agent market opened, who would you not want to test the markets?
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22290
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
1. You let a lot of guys walk that I would think about keeping, notably Jennings and Wootton. If we are going to do that we need to be very active in free agency.

2. Greg Hardy is awesome and while I do not think that he hits free agency I have no problem with the Bears signing an impact free agent rusher. Michael Johnson seems more likely to hit the market and I think he is just a notch below Hardy.

3. I do not want a 4th round pick starting at DE for us. Especially considering our issues this season. There is only 1 legitimate DE on the team the ret are potential players and 1st round busts.

4. I think a big NT would look very good in this defense. Our lack of size and power is concerning.

5. A lot of investment in the secondary which is nice, but our safety position is still a liability.


The problem is if you want to sign a big name FA like Hardy you are going to have to make sacrifices…Jennings has been excellent for us but he is going to be 30 years old and want a big contract because this is his last shot to get one…you offer me a quality 25 year old DE or a quality 30 year old CB I’m taking the DE all day long…Wootton is another guy I would like to keep but if he is looking for $5 million a season I don’t think he is worth that much…

Hardy has a shot to hit FA because the Panthers don’t have a ton of cap space and Cam Newton is an FA in 2015 so they have to keep some money back for him…add in the fact they have Charles Johnson on a massive contract and just invested a 1st & 2nd round picks in Dline talent I’m not sure they can afford him…I think Hardy is much better than Johnson for quite a few reasons…Hardy is a more consistent pass rusher…he is much better against the run…and Hardy can slide inside on passing downs to UT whereas Johnson can’t…

We aren’t going to rebuild this D in one season and the 2nd choice DE is where we sacrifice this season…we get an elite DE in Hardy…we get Melton back to hopefully 100% to be an elite UT…Joseph provides a presence inside at NT…that 2nd DE spot is going to be the position that misses out on getting a major upgrade this year…we did it the same way when we went out and got Peppers with Idonije starting at LE…this year will be no different and then unless one of the high potential guys shines next year we come back and take a DE early in the 2015 draft…

We can’t afford to bring in a big name FA and I have a ton of confidence that Bucannon would be an upgrade over Wright…again we aren’t going to fix the secondary in only one year…this year we focus on finding CB help because that’s where the depth is…next year if Conte doesn’t improve then again we go safety early in 2015…rebuilding the D is a two year job.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
1. If you could only get 3 guys under contact before the free agent market opened, who would you not want to test the markets?


The obvious three I would get signed early would be Cutler, Melton & Tillman.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
1. If you could only get 3 guys under contact before the free agent market opened, who would you not want to test the markets?


The obvious three I would get signed early would be Cutler, Melton & Tillman.


I agree Hardy is better than Johnson and more versatile, but Johnson is a very difficult player to deal with and would also provide what we are looking for.

What do you think of getting 2 DEs for the price of Hardy? What is we could get Michael Bennett and Everson Griffin for a similar cap charge?

I would keep Wootton in your plan, he is so much better than McClellin and the other backups and would give us a nice option across from Hardy.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
1. If you could only get 3 guys under contact before the free agent market opened, who would you not want to test the markets?


The obvious three I would get signed early would be Cutler, Melton & Tillman.


I agree Hardy is better than Johnson and more versatile, but Johnson is a very difficult player to deal with and would also provide what we are looking for.

What do you think of getting 2 DEs for the price of Hardy? What is we could get Michael Bennett and Everson Griffin for a similar cap charge?

I would keep Wootton in your plan, he is so much better than McClellin and the other backups and would give us a nice option across from Hardy.


I would like to keep Wootton but if he is looking for a contract at around $5 million a year I don’t think we can afford him and if we could us that money to get a guy like Hardy then we have to make that upgrade IMO…

I think the last thing we want to do is go down the road of signing guys just because we need DEs…Bennett is a solid player…Griffin has regressed this year but has talent…but neither is a game changer and that is what we need right now…if we signed Bennett & Griffin it would put us in the same situation as we were before we signed Peppers…we had two solid DEs in Brown & O-Gun but no one who really changed how offences had to account for a pass rushing threat we get Peppers and suddenly everything changes for the entire D…Bennett & Griffin would get us back to solid…Hardy along with the return of a hopefully 100% healthy Melton would make us scary again.
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
1. If you could only get 3 guys under contact before the free agent market opened, who would you not want to test the markets?


The obvious three I would get signed early would be Cutler, Melton & Tillman.


I agree Hardy is better than Johnson and more versatile, but Johnson is a very difficult player to deal with and would also provide what we are looking for.

What do you think of getting 2 DEs for the price of Hardy? What is we could get Michael Bennett and Everson Griffin for a similar cap charge?

I would keep Wootton in your plan, he is so much better than McClellin and the other backups and would give us a nice option across from Hardy.


I would like to keep Wootton but if he is looking for a contract at around $5 million a year I don’t think we can afford him and if we could us that money to get a guy like Hardy then we have to make that upgrade IMO…

I think the last thing we want to do is go down the road of signing guys just because we need DEs…Bennett is a solid player…Griffin has regressed this year but has talent…but neither is a game changer and that is what we need right now…if we signed Bennett & Griffin it would put us in the same situation as we were before we signed Peppers…we had two solid DEs in Brown & O-Gun but no one who really changed how offences had to account for a pass rushing threat we get Peppers and suddenly everything changes for the entire D…Bennett & Griffin would get us back to solid…Hardy along with the return of a hopefully 100% healthy Melton would make us scary again.
I'd have no problem letting Wootton walk. He hasn't played well at DE even before the move to DT. He's made a bit more of an impact inside actually. Hardy is one of the few guys I was a fan of. One of my all time favorites.
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
1. If you could only get 3 guys under contact before the free agent market opened, who would you not want to test the markets?


The obvious three I would get signed early would be Cutler, Melton & Tillman.


I agree Hardy is better than Johnson and more versatile, but Johnson is a very difficult player to deal with and would also provide what we are looking for.

What do you think of getting 2 DEs for the price of Hardy? What is we could get Michael Bennett and Everson Griffin for a similar cap charge?

I would keep Wootton in your plan, he is so much better than McClellin and the other backups and would give us a nice option across from Hardy.


I would like to keep Wootton but if he is looking for a contract at around $5 million a year I don’t think we can afford him and if we could us that money to get a guy like Hardy then we have to make that upgrade IMO…

I think the last thing we want to do is go down the road of signing guys just because we need DEs…Bennett is a solid player…Griffin has regressed this year but has talent…but neither is a game changer and that is what we need right now…if we signed Bennett & Griffin it would put us in the same situation as we were before we signed Peppers…we had two solid DEs in Brown & O-Gun but no one who really changed how offences had to account for a pass rushing threat we get Peppers and suddenly everything changes for the entire D…Bennett & Griffin would get us back to solid…Hardy along with the return of a hopefully 100% healthy Melton would make us scary again.
I'd have no problem letting Wootton walk. He hasn't played well at DE even before the move to DT. He's made a bit more of an impact inside actually. Hardy is one of the few guys I was a fan of. One of my all time favorites.


I'm right there with you. He will have to be on fire the rest of the season for me to be a believer. I have Wooten rated just ahead of McClellin for this season, just barely.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
1. If you could only get 3 guys under contact before the free agent market opened, who would you not want to test the markets?


The obvious three I would get signed early would be Cutler, Melton & Tillman.


I agree Hardy is better than Johnson and more versatile, but Johnson is a very difficult player to deal with and would also provide what we are looking for.

What do you think of getting 2 DEs for the price of Hardy? What is we could get Michael Bennett and Everson Griffin for a similar cap charge?

I would keep Wootton in your plan, he is so much better than McClellin and the other backups and would give us a nice option across from Hardy.


I would like to keep Wootton but if he is looking for a contract at around $5 million a year I don’t think we can afford him and if we could us that money to get a guy like Hardy then we have to make that upgrade IMO…

I think the last thing we want to do is go down the road of signing guys just because we need DEs…Bennett is a solid player…Griffin has regressed this year but has talent…but neither is a game changer and that is what we need right now…if we signed Bennett & Griffin it would put us in the same situation as we were before we signed Peppers…we had two solid DEs in Brown & O-Gun but no one who really changed how offences had to account for a pass rushing threat we get Peppers and suddenly everything changes for the entire D…Bennett & Griffin would get us back to solid…Hardy along with the return of a hopefully 100% healthy Melton would make us scary again.
I'd have no problem letting Wootton walk. He hasn't played well at DE even before the move to DT. He's made a bit more of an impact inside actually. Hardy is one of the few guys I was a fan of. One of my all time favorites.


I'm right there with you. He will have to be on fire the rest of the season for me to be a believer. I have Wooten rated just ahead of McClellin for this season, just barely.


That is too far.

Wootton has been consistent even when playing out of position.

McClellin is a wasted roster spot and the worst player on our defense. Wootton might not be special but he is better than that. Versatile and athletic 6'6" guys don't grow on trees. Undersized white guys do.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
1. If you could only get 3 guys under contact before the free agent market opened, who would you not want to test the markets?


The obvious three I would get signed early would be Cutler, Melton & Tillman.


I agree Hardy is better than Johnson and more versatile, but Johnson is a very difficult player to deal with and would also provide what we are looking for.

What do you think of getting 2 DEs for the price of Hardy? What is we could get Michael Bennett and Everson Griffin for a similar cap charge?

I would keep Wootton in your plan, he is so much better than McClellin and the other backups and would give us a nice option across from Hardy.


I would like to keep Wootton but if he is looking for a contract at around $5 million a year I don’t think we can afford him and if we could us that money to get a guy like Hardy then we have to make that upgrade IMO…

I think the last thing we want to do is go down the road of signing guys just because we need DEs…Bennett is a solid player…Griffin has regressed this year but has talent…but neither is a game changer and that is what we need right now…if we signed Bennett & Griffin it would put us in the same situation as we were before we signed Peppers…we had two solid DEs in Brown & O-Gun but no one who really changed how offences had to account for a pass rushing threat we get Peppers and suddenly everything changes for the entire D…Bennett & Griffin would get us back to solid…Hardy along with the return of a hopefully 100% healthy Melton would make us scary again.
I'd have no problem letting Wootton walk. He hasn't played well at DE even before the move to DT. He's made a bit more of an impact inside actually. Hardy is one of the few guys I was a fan of. One of my all time favorites.


I'm right there with you. He will have to be on fire the rest of the season for me to be a believer. I have Wooten rated just ahead of McClellin for this season, just barely.


That is too far.

Wootton has been consistent even when playing out of position.

McClellin is a wasted roster spot and the worst player on our defense. Wootton might not be special but he is better than that. Versatile and athletic 6'6" guys don't grow on trees. Undersized white guys do.


Problem is he wasn’t consistent playing at DE this season…he did absolutely nothing at DE this season and has looked much better in a DT…but we aren’t going to resign him to play DT next year and we need an elite DE…Wootton isn’t that.
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
1. If you could only get 3 guys under contact before the free agent market opened, who would you not want to test the markets?


The obvious three I would get signed early would be Cutler, Melton & Tillman.


I agree Hardy is better than Johnson and more versatile, but Johnson is a very difficult player to deal with and would also provide what we are looking for.

What do you think of getting 2 DEs for the price of Hardy? What is we could get Michael Bennett and Everson Griffin for a similar cap charge?

I would keep Wootton in your plan, he is so much better than McClellin and the other backups and would give us a nice option across from Hardy.


I would like to keep Wootton but if he is looking for a contract at around $5 million a year I don’t think we can afford him and if we could us that money to get a guy like Hardy then we have to make that upgrade IMO…

I think the last thing we want to do is go down the road of signing guys just because we need DEs…Bennett is a solid player…Griffin has regressed this year but has talent…but neither is a game changer and that is what we need right now…if we signed Bennett & Griffin it would put us in the same situation as we were before we signed Peppers…we had two solid DEs in Brown & O-Gun but no one who really changed how offences had to account for a pass rushing threat we get Peppers and suddenly everything changes for the entire D…Bennett & Griffin would get us back to solid…Hardy along with the return of a hopefully 100% healthy Melton would make us scary again.
I'd have no problem letting Wootton walk. He hasn't played well at DE even before the move to DT. He's made a bit more of an impact inside actually. Hardy is one of the few guys I was a fan of. One of my all time favorites.


I'm right there with you. He will have to be on fire the rest of the season for me to be a believer. I have Wooten rated just ahead of McClellin for this season, just barely.


That is too far.

Wootton has been consistent even when playing out of position.
$
McClellin is a wasted roster spot and the worst player on our defense. Wootton might not be special but he is better than that. Versatile and athletic 6'6" guys don't grow on trees. Undersized white guys do.


I have to disagree. I don't see Wooton as a real athletic individual, I couldn't care less if he was 6'6" or 6'3", I just want him to make plays or at least make the defense focus on him. He is physically good enough to be a starter on the DL, but he has done nothing noteworthy this season, and I doubt his stats are much better than Shea's, even with Shea seeming like a complete and total bust. And I am rarely seeing him get double teamed, even when he was playing DT.

While he is a great deal stronger than Shea and doesn't have nclose to as many of those plays where he gets folded like Shea, even at DE he has disappeared more than impressed. There are many times when he is also man handled out of a play, so being 3 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier might help, but it doesn't make him special in any way than that "undersized" guy. Shea is about the same size and Ware, Clay Mathews, and Mathis, who none of us would blink before taking as a starting DE (I know Clay is an OLB, but he could easily play end in our 4-3) and even with them being smaller than Wooten, they are all MUCH better than Wooton will ever be.

I'm just glad we are seeing Wootton play like this now instead of after the big contract so many wanted to give him, some had him averaging over $8 million a year, which is a FAR worse scenario than having Shea with a mid 1st rounder's contract. I'm not sure he is going to be anything more than an average starter in the NFL, even at his peak.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shea is a bust.

Wootton is an average starter.

That is a huge difference.

Wootton is a good complimentary LE that had 8 sacks and a numbe of splash plays when there was better talent around him.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shea is a bust.

Wootton is an average starter.

That is a huge difference.

Wootton is a good complimentary LE that had 8 sacks and a numbe of splash plays when there was better talent around him.

He is not a star and we should not pay him 8 million a season but I pay him 4-5 to be our 3rd best DLmen.
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Wooton is basically an average starter and that Shea is a bust, I'm saying Wooton is not playing to the level of an average starter. The only reason Wooton has not been labelled a wasted pick was 2012's season, as he has done nothing worthwhile otherwise, unless the Favre sack is counted. IDK why he is playing so poor, but he sure as hell needs to step it up to be an average starter. I hope with a healthy Melton and new younger talent around him that he can repeat last season's performance, but he's not winning near as many one on ones as he did last year. Hopefully he'll step up.
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