Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Roethlisberger being hit at record pace
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Pittsburgh Steelers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 4494
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Roethlisberger being hit at record pace Reply with quote

Quote:
Well, Arians is long gone but the sacks of Roethlisberger are up. He has been sacked 26 times in 2013, fourth most in the NFL and on pace for a career-high 59. If he plays all 16 games, that is.

...

“It’s frustrating,” said Marcus Gilbert, who has started every game at right tackle and continues to improve his grade there. “Coaches aren’t pleased with that. I know he’s not. I wouldn’t be, either. We have to take pride in that and get better.”

...

“He’s the toughest quarterback in the league but after a while, obviously you get sick of that,” Gilbert said of seeing his quarterback knocked down so often. “Any of us would. He’s trying to get the job done and he feels pressure every time or gets hit with shots to the leg or to the head. We have to take more pride in it. Whether it’s change up the scheme or just get better with the line — and the injuries aren’t helping.”

Asked how he feels physically after getting hit more often than at any time in his career, Roethlisberger laughed.

“I am all right so far. As long as we slow it down soon,” he said.

His teammates, though, see on Mondays the damage done each game.

“It stinks to see him come in the next day limping around, barely walking,” Gilbert said. “You got to be better, you have to take pride in that.
"


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/2013/11/01/Big-Ben-taking-hits-at-record-pace/stories/201311010089

What a crybaby Ben is...I mean, so what if he can barely walk Mondays because his OL sucks, and he gets hit every play? I mean, he should be lighting it up. Keep his mouth shut and do as told...NEVER question Haley in public!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 7099
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I would say much of Haley's design and reason for being brought in was a shorter get rid of the ball style of play. You need quick space weapons for that. We lost all of them essentially or didn't have them to start with. Sanders is not reliable.

The only two good options we had in LSH and Wheaton are out and not playing. Tight ends would make a big difference in this offense as well, we have Heath he's great but has never been quick and doesn't really get separation he just fights well for the ball, creates space but not doesn't quite flash and is very typically reliable ( now hindered).

We have no real threat out of the backfield for quickness.

Bens reluctance to get rid of the ball and big play mind set don't help. I don't know that its ever really going to get that much better.
_________________
Dcash4 wrote:


...you have a forum resume?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 2699
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
What I would say much of Haley's design and reason for being brought in was a shorter get rid of the ball style of play. You need quick space weapons for that. We lost all of them essentially or didn't have them to start with. Sanders is not reliable.

The only two good options we had in LSH and Wheaton are out and not playing. Tight ends would make a big difference in this offense as well, we have Heath he's great but has never been quick and doesn't really get separation he just fights well for the ball, creates space but not doesn't quite flash and is very typically reliable ( now hindered).

We have no real threat out of the backfield for quickness.

Bens reluctance to get rid of the ball and big play mind set don't help. I don't know that its ever really going to get that much better.


That is the way ben likes to play, so too bad for him. He will always have to deal with the pain unless they get the right targets for the quick passing game on the field. Getting the running game going is a good idea to help but when the D allows teams to get so far ahead, then the D can take blame for ben having to pass as much and limping around practice .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SMashMouthMike


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 4739
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What I would say much of Haley's design and reason for being brought in was a shorter get rid of the ball style of play. You need quick space weapons for that. We lost all of them essentially or didn't have them to start with. Sanders is not reliable.

The only two good options we had in LSH and Wheaton are out and not playing. Tight ends would make a big difference in this offense as well, we have Heath he's great but has never been quick and doesn't really get separation he just fights well for the ball, creates space but not doesn't quite flash and is very typically reliable ( now hindered).

We have no real threat out of the backfield for quickness.

Bens reluctance to get rid of the ball and big play mind set don't help. I don't know that its ever really going to get that much better.


Great post. While everyone would love to see the steelers have the greatest show on turf offense, they can't be that offense without the pieces of Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk, Orlando Pace and some other top notch receiving targets...or very similar pieces imo.
_________________

Thanks Lyasr 529
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49967
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMashMouthMike wrote:
Quote:
What I would say much of Haley's design and reason for being brought in was a shorter get rid of the ball style of play. You need quick space weapons for that. We lost all of them essentially or didn't have them to start with. Sanders is not reliable.

The only two good options we had in LSH and Wheaton are out and not playing. Tight ends would make a big difference in this offense as well, we have Heath he's great but has never been quick and doesn't really get separation he just fights well for the ball, creates space but not doesn't quite flash and is very typically reliable ( now hindered).

We have no real threat out of the backfield for quickness.

Bens reluctance to get rid of the ball and big play mind set don't help. I don't know that its ever really going to get that much better.


Great post. While everyone would love to see the steelers have the greatest show on turf offense, they can't be that offense without the pieces of Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk, Orlando Pace and some other top notch receiving targets...or very similar pieces imo.


Pretty sure fans of every team would love that.

However, realistic fans know better.

Ive never....NEVER expected that. I have expected more than we have gotten over the years, but never got it.

Ben's greatest strength is his greatest weakness. And while he does hold on to the ball too long sometimes, it doesnt change the fact that the OLine is constantly dismal. He will take unnecessary sacks no matter what, but the OLine shoulders the vast majority of the blame....not only because they cannot pass block well, but because they cant run block either, and that just makes it even worse since opposing defenses dont have to respect the run at all.

While I am very annoyed with the OLine, it does seem that almost every team has an area they constantly struggle to find great WRs for in the draft. Look at the Pats with WRs....the only WRs they have had better than average during Tom Brady's career, were guys they traded for. And there are alot of teams that struggle to find quality OLineman just like we do.

Not trying to excuse it....just adding some perspective.

IMO, this team needs to start using FA better. I am for building through the draft, but this team seems downright stubborn when it comes to signing free agents from other teams, and in many ways, arrogant, because they believe they can draft well enough to replace losses, which is clearly proving not to be the case anymore.

My point is....if they cant draft a quality lineman, use free agency and stop wasting draft picks on them. Doesnt even have to be an elite talent, but it also shouldnt be garbage players like Jon Scott and Guy Whimper.
_________________

Madden 25 Steelers Franchise
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SMashMouthMike


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 4739
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with what you are saying 43( and thanks for the outstanding hotties in the gameday thread before they were censored Smile ), but then we get emotional and simpleton complaints by young guys saying the o is too conservative or it's predictable or it was a bad call because it did not work basically. Real easy to be critical, and not offer workable solutions that are context relevant. I understand that frustrations come with being a fan, but at the same time, this team is rebuilding & is not perfect. There is a ultra competitive fine line between being the bengals and the steelers right now. Moreover, even in the 70s, we were not always perfect nor the best team each and every week.
_________________

Thanks Lyasr 529
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chrisororke


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 504
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt in my mind this is the most arrogant team in the league. It's not even close. Not even God could tell them they aren't what they used to be at drafting. Their rebuttal is most SB rings. Seems to have worked just fine. I'm looking at Tomlin/Rooney II as the new pieces to the puzzle with the considerable dropoff of acquiring talent. Granted, Colbert isn't off the hook, he's to blame as well

Agree UFA needs to be utilized but they have their hands tied with the Math of Khan. Can't get over why he gets praise. If you look at any team outside of the Steelers they are so creative with option bonuses, etc and every deal is the same with us.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5729 --- Gronk's deal. Even the value makes sense to me and not Woodley 6yrs/61.5M. All deals but ours seem to be protected by option bonuses down the road where if play drops off, injury, whatever you can pull the tablecover out and the flowers are still standing. Then the way he gets out of cap hell is to restructure a contract by kicking money down the road. We just go wow didn't think this through ok convert 10M of 12M salary to bonus and amortize that the rest of the deal. Then next year comes and you do the same thing. You have to pay the piper at some point.

It's not rocket science to go move 10M salary over four years, save 7.5M on next years cap. It's not a revelation, it's common knowledge. Yet, people go OMG he's sucha genius, thank you Omar, thank you. And I'm sitting there going thanks a lot a$$hole. And the absolute nail in the coffin is the fact we've been kicking money down the road for three years and New Orleans was in cap hell and did it for the first time this year. Every team will cut players like the Jets did this past offseason and the Steelers go nooo we can't rebuild. We will win another SB

All of this goes back to the original point of arrogance. They are so arrogant it makes me sick. They won't rebuild out of pride.

_________________________________________________

The point I wanted to make before the tangent there was about how poor the OL is. Every year we are the only team that have guys fall into each other and hurt one another. The only team. For a while, people would say that's just bad luck. I've been saying for three years it isn't bad luck. You have the worst OL and can't scout them to save your life. Our guys get blown off the ball so bad they fall into one another. That has nothing to do with luck. That has everything to do with an inept line. And that is why you sign OL in UFA. You can't scout them, let someone else do the dirty work and you can watch them play against NFL competition and determine they have the talent or not. They might not be able to do that though, because it is funny that the best OL player we have drafted (outside of Pouncey) was Kraig Urbik who is playing at a high level in Buffalo and was released before never playing a regular season down. Back to Khan, Urbik got 14M over 4 years and I guess Willie Colon is double that. It's all broke. Say what you want, but the Lusitania got hit with a torpedo and you got 20 mins to abandon ship. Luckily for me, I never got on the ship because I saw all the warning signs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 7099
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im really curious what examples of successes in free agency are we trying to resemble?

My image of free agency is for every 1 success there are about 10 failures.

There have been some trades that have brought degrees of success to teams but I can think of few examples of free agency that I would want this team to mirror. Many of the better successes seem to be of the comeback from injury type.

??
_________________
Dcash4 wrote:


...you have a forum resume?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49967
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
Im really curious what examples of successes in free agency are we trying to resemble?

My image of free agency is for every 1 success there are about 10 failures.

There have been some trades that have brought degrees of success to teams but I can think of few examples of free agency that I would want this team to mirror. Many of the better successes seem to be of the comeback from injury type.

??


The bolded simply isnt true at all....unless your expectations of certain FAs are too high.

For instance....you may view guys like Sean Mahan and Jon Scott as failures. Maybe they were in ways, but in my opinion, we got what we paid for....marginal talents that were never that good and never had any business starting.

I dont truly consider a guy like Jon Scott a failure...FOR THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION, I consider our front office and coaches the failures for signing such a mediocre player and trying to get away with starting him. We knew what we were getting when we paid for him....and its exactly what I got.

I am talking in terms of quality free agents....not the riff raff signings we normally make. There absolutely are free agent busts, but Im not talking about breaking the bank on a marginal player. Guys like James Farrior and Jeff Hartings werent stars when we signed them. They were good players that had shown flashes of greatness. Thats the type of signing we need to make.

Free agency should be used to supplement the draft. Our front office doesnt utilize it well. Instead, they give bums like Chris Kemoeatu and Willie Colon huge contracts...even though it wouldve been relatively easy to find the same caliber of player OR BETTER for the same price or cheaper.

I dont normally bash the front office, and by no means do I think I have all the answers....but come on....even the vast majority of fans could see alot of our moves, especially on the OLine...were doomed from the start.

Bottom line...I am not saying use FA as a crutch, but at least as a band-aid. They arent drafting as well as they used to, so its time to invest into a quality FA here and there. Not a blockbuster deal type, but the type that is young, has shown promise and at the very least, is likely to be a solid contributor.
_________________

Madden 25 Steelers Franchise
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 64579
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't say?

LT with the top 10 pick - lock it up!
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49967
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
You don't say?

LT with the top 10 pick - lock it up!


The only LT Id definitely want in the top 10 is Matthews.

Lewan is good, but depends how he finishes his year. He has his issues.

Wouldnt touch any other LT in the top 20. David Yankey might get up there.
_________________

Madden 25 Steelers Franchise
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 7099
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
Im really curious what examples of successes in free agency are we trying to resemble?

My image of free agency is for every 1 success there are about 10 failures.

There have been some trades that have brought degrees of success to teams but I can think of few examples of free agency that I would want this team to mirror. Many of the better successes seem to be of the comeback from injury type.

??


The bolded simply isnt true at all....unless your expectations of certain FAs are too high.

For instance....you may view guys like Sean Mahan and Jon Scott as failures. Maybe they were in ways, but in my opinion, we got what we paid for....marginal talents that were never that good and never had any business starting.

I dont truly consider a guy like Jon Scott a failure...FOR THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION, I consider our front office and coaches the failures for signing such a mediocre player and trying to get away with starting him. We knew what we were getting when we paid for him....and its exactly what I got.

I am talking in terms of quality free agents....not the riff raff signings we normally make. There absolutely are free agent busts, but Im not talking about breaking the bank on a marginal player. Guys like James Farrior and Jeff Hartings werent stars when we signed them. They were good players that had shown flashes of greatness. Thats the type of signing we need to make.

Free agency should be used to supplement the draft. Our front office doesnt utilize it well. Instead, they give bums like Chris Kemoeatu and Willie Colon huge contracts...even though it wouldve been relatively easy to find the same caliber of player OR BETTER for the same price or cheaper.

I dont normally bash the front office, and by no means do I think I have all the answers....but come on....even the vast majority of fans could see alot of our moves, especially on the OLine...were doomed from the start.

Bottom line...I am not saying use FA as a crutch, but at least as a band-aid. They arent drafting as well as they used to, so its time to invest into a quality FA here and there. Not a blockbuster deal type, but the type that is young, has shown promise and at the very least, is likely to be a solid contributor.


I don't think you answered my question really, and I didn't say my statistic was fact. It clearly states "my image" is that it is 1 out of 10, which is how I see it.
I have no idea what you are trying to get at with Jon Scott..on one hand he's not a failure and yet he is ?

Even if we had some cap space....Who did we not sign that has been effective and was not overpaid that you believe we should've and could've went after?
Welker? I doubt he would have even considered Pittsburgh unless we offered about 8 million/per.
We missed out on Gosder Cherilus...isn't he one of this forums all time punching bags?
I liked Roy Miller but don't think it would've changed things that significantly .

We did sign LSH which was a very good signing, minus the fact that he got injured.
_________________
Dcash4 wrote:


...you have a forum resume?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6427
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
Im really curious what examples of successes in free agency are we trying to resemble?

My image of free agency is for every 1 success there are about 10 failures.

There have been some trades that have brought degrees of success to teams but I can think of few examples of free agency that I would want this team to mirror. Many of the better successes seem to be of the comeback from injury type.

??


The bolded simply isnt true at all....unless your expectations of certain FAs are too high.

For instance....you may view guys like Sean Mahan and Jon Scott as failures. Maybe they were in ways, but in my opinion, we got what we paid for....marginal talents that were never that good and never had any business starting.

I dont truly consider a guy like Jon Scott a failure...FOR THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION, I consider our front office and coaches the failures for signing such a mediocre player and trying to get away with starting him. We knew what we were getting when we paid for him....and its exactly what I got.

I am talking in terms of quality free agents....not the riff raff signings we normally make. There absolutely are free agent busts, but Im not talking about breaking the bank on a marginal player. Guys like James Farrior and Jeff Hartings werent stars when we signed them. They were good players that had shown flashes of greatness. Thats the type of signing we need to make.

Free agency should be used to supplement the draft. Our front office doesnt utilize it well. Instead, they give bums like Chris Kemoeatu and Willie Colon huge contracts...even though it wouldve been relatively easy to find the same caliber of player OR BETTER for the same price or cheaper.

I dont normally bash the front office, and by no means do I think I have all the answers....but come on....even the vast majority of fans could see alot of our moves, especially on the OLine...were doomed from the start.

Bottom line...I am not saying use FA as a crutch, but at least as a band-aid. They arent drafting as well as they used to, so its time to invest into a quality FA here and there. Not a blockbuster deal type, but the type that is young, has shown promise and at the very least, is likely to be a solid contributor.


I agree there is a failure on the FO's part when they bring bums in.

But, when said bums are even worse then anticipated the failure is two fold. Player and FO. Scott and Mahan were failures in their own right.

That said, I again agree that this FO needs to understand that in the modern salary cap era FA plays an important role in plugging the hole in the dike. Thing is they try to plug boulder sized holes with pebbles...at least bring in the occasional average rock and see what happens.

They also need to adapt and understand how valuable and important it is to teams to get maximum production out of their C1 players. The practice of grooming a player for 3 years before they get starter volume snaps just doesn't work any longer.

The equation is pay the core players, get C1 production, and fill in the middle with inexpensive C2s and FA's. Recently the only variable this FO has been successful at is paying people, many of whom have been misidentified as core players.
_________________



"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 10026
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
You don't say?

LT with the top 10 pick - lock it up!


complete waste, unless it's Matthews, and then it's only a marginal waste.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49967
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
I don't think you answered my question really


Mainly because Im not sure what your actual question is.

What success are we trying to resemble? Not trying to resemble anyone....just something different instead of wasting draft picks on a position we clearly cannot draft.

Quote:
and I didn't say my statistic was fact. It clearly states "my image" is that it is 1 out of 10, which is how I see it.


Okay...and I said its not really true....depending how you look at it.

Quote:
I have no idea what you are trying to get at with Jon Scott..on one hand he's not a failure and yet he is ?


What I'm saying is that Jon Scott was never a good player and expectations for him were low. My suggestion is to sign some higher quality free agents once in awhile instead of signing bums like Jon Scott, who are destined to fail.

Quote:
Even if we had some cap space....Who did we not sign that has been effective and was not overpaid that you believe we should've and could've went after?


This isnt just about this past offseason. I am speaking in terms of every offseason...exploring FA for a quality player instead of assuming we can fill our holes WELL via the draft and with bottom of the barrel free agents.

In terms of who couldve signed...I wasnt really looking at free agents too much because I knew we wouldnt be signing any. The ones I suggested were...

Andy Levitre - Not doing great, admittedly, but I dont think they are using him to his strengths (and we likely wouldnt have either)

Jared Cook - Still wish we couldve gotten him.

Terrance Knighton - Up and down, but a better fit for 34 NT than McLendon IMO.

Shonn Greene - Injured, but in terms of talent, on par with Bell IMO.

Jared Cook is the only one I think really wouldve paid off...but as I said...its not simply about signing the players as much as it is just looking at other options. Seems like our front office has too much faith in their ability to draft....not just now but for the last several years.

Quote:
Welker? I doubt he would have even considered Pittsburgh unless we offered about 8 million/per.


Why would we even want him? He is a good player, but I didnt want him and still wouldnt.

Quote:
We missed out on Gosder Cherilus...isn't he one of this forums all time punching bags?


He is playing better than expected.

Easy to say we missed out on him in hindsight.

He is a RT anyway. He would be an upgrade over Gilbert, but it wouldnt fix our biggest issues.

Quote:
I liked Roy Miller but don't think it would've changed things that significantly .


I liked Miller too...and I agree.

Quote:
We did sign LSH which was a very good signing, minus the fact that he got injured.


He was a solid signing in the same way Mewelde Moore was. Nice role player, but not a real impact player.

Again...all Im saying is I wish they would explore more options, instead of resigning players who dont deserve it and only signing riff raff guys.
_________________

Madden 25 Steelers Franchise
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Pittsburgh Steelers All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group