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Are these players used to losing?
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
So long as the sins of each past administration are held against the current, no happiness will ever be found. I think we all overwhelmingly hope that the day Jerry steps aside as GM is near at hand, but that doesn't mean we have to sit in the corner pouting that nothing will change.

Changes ARE happening before our very eyes. You can argue the merits of those changes. You can argue the effectiveness. But to deny them outright is nothing more that being blind to the situation.


The sins of the past administration are the same as the current one, T_O7. Ratliff was given that extension while Garrett was head coach. Players were restructured under his tenure as head coach. Romo was given his ridiculous extension 8 months ago. And more players will be restructured this off season to further the problem. That's why they don't care about winning. They don't have to. They're not held accountable for anything and will be paid huge salaries whether they win or lose. Heck, they'll get paid even if they don't even play!


The day Jerry steps down, I think, will be a day the entire forum pours a nice scotch in a toast.
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of things have changed, but the results have not. In a results-driven industry that is football, all these changes have largely been ineffective. And despite all the changes, the team still has a lot of holes.

Let's hope JJ steps down soon. Only then will meaningful change occur and hopefully it'll lead to better results.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
So long as the sins of each past administration are held against the current, no happiness will ever be found. I think we all overwhelmingly hope that the day Jerry steps aside as GM is near at hand, but that doesn't mean we have to sit in the corner pouting that nothing will change.

Changes ARE happening before our very eyes. You can argue the merits of those changes. You can argue the effectiveness. But to deny them outright is nothing more that being blind to the situation.


The sins of the past administration are the same as the current one, T_O7. Ratliff was given that extension while Garrett was head coach. Players were restructured under his tenure as head coach. Romo was given his ridiculous extension 8 months ago. And more players will be restructured this off season to further the problem. That's why they don't care about winning. They don't have to. They're not held accountable for anything and will be paid huge salaries whether they win or lose. Heck, they'll get paid even if they don't even play!


The day Jerry steps down, I think, will be a day the entire forum pours a nice scotch in a toast.


I think that will be the day the forum collapses because of overload of joyous posting by our fan base. Laughing
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
So long as the sins of each past administration are held against the current, no happiness will ever be found. I think we all overwhelmingly hope that the day Jerry steps aside as GM is near at hand, but that doesn't mean we have to sit in the corner pouting that nothing will change.

Changes ARE happening before our very eyes. You can argue the merits of those changes. You can argue the effectiveness. But to deny them outright is nothing more that being blind to the situation.


The sins of the past administration are the same as the current one, T_O7. Ratliff was given that extension while Garrett was head coach. Players were restructured under his tenure as head coach. Romo was given his ridiculous extension 8 months ago. And more players will be restructured this off season to further the problem. That's why they don't care about winning. They don't have to. They're not held accountable for anything and will be paid huge salaries whether they win or lose. Heck, they'll get paid even if they don't even play!


The day Jerry steps down, I think, will be a day the entire forum pours a nice scotch in a toast.


You bet we will. And I don't even drink.
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htfryar


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, I finally figured out why Plan & Slam are so damn grouchy. Neither of them drink, which is ironic. Seems to me that 2 guys who find so much to be miserable about would have pickled livers. Laughing
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THE BIG CHEEZE


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
Guys, I finally figured out why Plan & Slam are so damn grouchy. Neither of them drink, which is ironic. Seems to me that 2 guys who find so much to be miserable about would have pickled livers. Laughing


WOW.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
Guys, I finally figured out why Plan & Slam are so damn grouchy. Neither of them drink, which is ironic. Seems to me that 2 guys who find so much to be miserable about would have pickled livers. Laughing


You know better than that, ht....
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony7188 wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Tony7188 wrote:
I think this reasoning is spot on. I think a lot of these players on this team has lost so much they don't have the confidence to come back and win games. You have to hate losing and the only one I know for sure that hates it is Dez Bryant.


I really don't think that many of them care whether they come back and win or not. And why would they? Their jobs aren't in jepoardy. Their contracts aren't in jeopardy. In fact, they'll typically be overpaid once their contracts are a year-or-so away from expiring regardless of how they play because the front office isn't capable of finding a quality replacement for that player. They have built-in job security. Plus, they have an owner who thinks that if they player is a good guy, puts up solid numbers (whether it results in a win or loss), and believes that losing is just as acceptable as winning (read: moral victories), you can lose your way to a Super Bowl!

Quote:
He's not like Tony Romo, who said "every loss hurts the same, it's no difference" in his press conference last Sunday. Every loss shouldn't hurt the same to a player.


It's because he's lying. Romo really doesn't care if he wins or loses. He has a loser mentality, much like a number of the other players. That's why he's so "ho hum". If he cared about winning, he'd be far more demonstrative, would be much more active in taking a leadership role, and would BE a leader. As I said earlier this week, if Romo had half of Aikman's sack as a player, we'd annually be a 12 win team. He has the talent and the physical ability, but not the mental makeup.


Sure, a player who doesn't care obviously would cry after losing.


And crying after a loss shows mental toughness and leadership?


Have you never been crushed after losing a tough competition? I have cried when losing games as a high school coach, and no one would question my leadership.

A true competitor, someone who lives and breathes competition, is shredded inside when they lose in such a tight fashion. It isn't crying because you lost, and it isn't crying because you feel let down. You cry because of the high emotions that have been winding up inside you since the start of the game, and snapped in tightness at the end. Even victorious, in such a game like that, it's not uncommon for a h ighly competitive person to cry.

But, I'd not expect many to understand such a thing. Until you've been there, until you've done such a thing on such a grand stage, you would never understand (you meaning people in general, not neccessarily you the reader or the one im replying to)
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been away since Friday very very late, following my team's game. And I'm surprised this thread is still very much alive - with some decent debate too. Let me make a few points in regards to the last three pages:

-It is, indeed, Bullshot for someone to think Romo doesn't care about winning or losing. That is nonsense. Total nonsense. Anyone playing in the NFL cares very much if they win or lose - to make it to the pros, you have to be very damn competitive. In almost ANYTHING you do, let alone what you do for a living. To think otherwise is complete insanity. Being used to losing doesn't mean you don't care if you lose. It just means you're used to choking down your emotions on a loss because you've had to do it so many times.

-To those who want Romo gone, despite having more fourth quarter comebacks than any QB in the NFL over the last 5 years (which speaks volumes for how bad our defense has sucked), be careful what you wish for. People wanted Aikman gone at the end of his career, too; and then we went how long before getting lucky and landing Romo? Remember Leaf, Carter, Hutchinson, Testaverde, Bledsoe and all the other nobodies we tried out at QB? You really want to go through that again?

-Double that for Jerry. Everyone is so harsh on him, and its ridiculous. Every good selection and good trade this team has made, is associated with everyone EXCEPT Jerry, who is the one pulling the trigger. Every bad pick and bad trade, no one EXCEPT Jerry gets the blame. It's bonkers. The guy is as responsible for the good stuff as the bad - and no GM, in all of football, has hit on every draft pick, made only good trades, or hired only the best coaches.

-Getting used to losing is simply a result of constant loss, not a lack of talent, ability or potential. I don't know where this nonsense comes from, but someone clearly is not competitive or had ever stepped onto a real field beyond on a big stage. When you lose, it crushes you. That crushed feeling, starts to lessen as the losses pile up - until you get used to dealing with it. Similar to breaking up with a girl - the first is the hardest, but it gets a bit easier each time, until you shake it off pretty darn quickly or don't even care any longer when it happens again. You get used to the feeling, and that acceptance of losing spreads. It has nothing to do with your potential, talent, ability, or skill. Just simply that you no longer feel the loss in the same way as you once did, because you've grown accustomed to coping with that feeling.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
-It is, indeed, Bullshot for someone to think Romo doesn't care about winning or losing. That is nonsense. Total nonsense. Anyone playing in the NFL cares very much if they win or lose - to make it to the pros, you have to be very damn competitive. In almost ANYTHING you do, let alone what you do for a living. To think otherwise is complete insanity. Being used to losing doesn't mean you don't care if you lose. It just means you're used to choking down your emotions on a loss because you've had to do it so many times.


That's not always true and we all know it. Do you not recall the list that Michael Irvin kept of the players on the team who were there solely to collect a paycheck? Have you not seen players cash in on their careers after getting a large contract? They don't care about winning, but that doesn't mean that they aren't competitive or dislike the sport. They may love what they do, but winning may be ancillary to other things. And that's where I think Romo falls. I'm not questioning his love of playing football. I simply don't believe that he cares if he wins when he plays it because his enjoyment seems to come from just playing the game. I honestly don't think he really cares one way or the other if he wins. And his comments in the past reinforce my position.

Quote:
-To those who want Romo gone, despite having more fourth quarter comebacks than any QB in the NFL over the last 5 years (which speaks volumes for how bad our defense has sucked), be careful what you wish for. People wanted Aikman gone at the end of his career, too; and then we went how long before getting lucky and landing Romo? Remember Leaf, Carter, Hutchinson, Testaverde, Bledsoe and all the other nobodies we tried out at QB? You really want to go through that again?


A slew of 4th quarter comebacks may also mean (and has also meant) that the QB play in the first 3 quarters was brutal. Need I remind anyone of Romo's HOF worthy 5 INT performance against Buffalo on that fateful Monday night? Sure, he led us down the field for a game winning 50+ yard field goal, but his horrfyingly terrible play is what put us in that position to begin with. So it goes both ways. Yes, our defense has sucked. But often times, so has he. We know his history of melting down and coming up small in big games just as much as watching the collection of losers we've called a defense choke away leads.

As far as returning to the days between Aikman and Romo, this doesn't mean that I wish to revisit Jerry's brilliance at "evaluating" washed up / worthless QBs. But it also doesn't mean that I don't want to truly evaluate them, and draft one high in the draft as a means of being Romo's eventual successor. That needs to happen, and it needs to happen sooner than later.

Quote:
-Double that for Jerry. Everyone is so harsh on him, and its ridiculous. Every good selection and good trade this team has made, is associated with everyone EXCEPT Jerry, who is the one pulling the trigger. Every bad pick and bad trade, no one EXCEPT Jerry gets the blame. It's bonkers. The guy is as responsible for the good stuff as the bad - and no GM, in all of football, has hit on every draft pick, made only good trades, or hired only the best coaches.


Every good trade that Jerry has made? Did you find one? Was it Galloway? Was it Roy Williams? What player did he trade for where we saw solid returns? I can't think of any. Hell, he fleeced himself on his own draft day trade in April. He got less than proper value for his own pick! Do you honestly believe it was a "good trade" when we should've received a 2nd rounder rather than a 3rd?

Quote:
-Getting used to losing is simply a result of constant loss, not a lack of talent, ability or potential. I don't know where this nonsense comes from, but someone clearly is not competitive or had ever stepped onto a real field beyond on a big stage. When you lose, it crushes you. That crushed feeling, starts to lessen as the losses pile up - until you get used to dealing with it. Similar to breaking up with a girl - the first is the hardest, but it gets a bit easier each time, until you shake it off pretty darn quickly or don't even care any longer when it happens again. You get used to the feeling, and that acceptance of losing spreads. It has nothing to do with your potential, talent, ability, or skill. Just simply that you no longer feel the loss in the same way as you once did, because you've grown accustomed to coping with that feeling.


That's where Romo is. He doesn't care about winning, but it hasn't tarnished his love of the game. This is what people - including you - refuse to accept. You can be competitive and love a game but not care about winning. Because winning may not be the primary driver behind playing. I've known athletes like that. A friend of mine who is a former professional baseball player was like that. So no, it's not B.S.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one who is a competitive athlete doesn't care about winning. But some absolutely care more than others.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
No one who is a competitive athlete doesn't care about winning. But some absolutely care more than others.


Different people have different motivations for playing. Some guys are motivated solely by winning. Others solely by money. Others still by the sheer joy they receive of having the chance to play a kid's game as a career. It's different for everyone. But Romo's behavior and statements don't convince me that winning is his top priority. I think it's pretty far down that list. That's why I said I'd prefer Aikman. I certainly wouldn't prefer Aikman's numbers over Romo's. I want Aikman's desire back on this team as our QB. He used to say in interviews that he didn't enjoy playing the game; he enjoyed winning. Let that sink in for a while. He was so passionate about winning and so competitive, it drove everything he did. Now that doesn't mean he didn't love football. He was stating that winning meant more to him than anything else. As it did with Irvin. And Emmitt (early on). And Haley (unless he was beating up a teammate), etc. Winning was the only thing to them. If Romo had that intangible (coupled with 1/2 of Aikman's leadership ability), he'd be virtually unstoppable as a QB. But he doesn't.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
No one who is a competitive athlete doesn't care about winning. But some absolutely care more than others.


This I can agree with. Some do care more than others. But they all care. They wouldn't have made it to the pros if they didn't.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plan, it's not even worth replying to all of that nonsense. It's easy to see you simply hate Romo and Jerry, and most things Cowboys, to the point you'll reach for reasons to put them down.

Just know that it's kind of silly to read anyone saying that Jerry, Romo or whomever simply doesn't care. Just silly.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
Plan, it's not even worth replying to all of that nonsense. It's easy to see you simply hate Romo and Jerry, and most things Cowboys, to the point you'll reach for reasons to put them down.

Just know that it's kind of silly to read anyone saying that Jerry, Romo or whomever simply doesn't care. Just silly.


You clearly didn't read what I wrote.
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