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Are these players used to losing?
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
htfryar wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
htfryar wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Tony7188 wrote:
I think this reasoning is spot on. I think a lot of these players on this team has lost so much they don't have the confidence to come back and win games. You have to hate losing and the only one I know for sure that hates it is Dez Bryant.


I really don't think that many of them care whether they come back and win or not. And why would they? Their jobs aren't in jepoardy. Their contracts aren't in jeopardy. In fact, they'll typically be overpaid once their contracts are a year-or-so away from expiring regardless of how they play because the front office isn't capable of finding a quality replacement for that player. They have built-in job security. Plus, they have an owner who thinks that if they player is a good guy, puts up solid numbers (whether it results in a win or loss), and believes that losing is just as acceptable as winning (read: moral victories), you can lose your way to a Super Bowl!

Quote:
He's not like Tony Romo, who said "every loss hurts the same, it's no difference" in his press conference last Sunday. Every loss shouldn't hurt the same to a player.


It's because he's lying. Romo really doesn't care if he wins or loses. He has a loser mentality, much like a number of the other players. That's why he's so "ho hum". If he cared about winning, he'd be far more demonstrative, would be much more active in taking a leadership role, and would BE a leader. As I said earlier this week, if Romo had half of Aikman's sack as a player, we'd annually be a 12 win team. He has the talent and the physical ability, but not the mental makeup.


Where do you come up with this bullshot? How in the Hell do you know winning and losing don't matter to Romo? Some people handle adversity differently than others. Just because he isn't ranting, raving and cussing out teammates doesn't mean he doesn't care. You can't go from Undrafted Rookie Free Agent to Starting QB of an NFL team if you don't care. Just because you don't like his demeanor, doesn't make you right.


Defend him all you want. That's fine. But my opinion of him won't change until he exibits the leadership ability to compel me to change that opinion. I've held this position since the day he set foot in Dallas and have been waiting for him to prove me wrong.


You still didn't give a valid reason why you think he doesn't care. You throw it out there as if it is a widely known, documented fact, when there is no evidence of it actually being the case.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with you not liking Romo. When he first came here, I didn't either. Hell, I was on the Drew Henson bandwagon. I just think that anyone who has done what he has done during their NFL career deserves to be treated with a little more respect. Making baseless accusations and stating them as if they are fact doesn't make you right about the subject.



I believe the only thing I ever heard Romo say to even elude to that line of thinking was to the effect of : "If losing a sporting event is the worst thing that happened to you, you lived a pretty good life."

Now that can go a couple of ways. One can interpret that as,: He dosen't really care if he wins or loses because football to him is simply a portion of his life, not all of it. It is a measurement or a fraction of his whole life, you know, the big picture- wife, kids, home, money, religion, success etc.

It's just a game, mind you, that he DOES want to win at, but in the end he is already seeing it as game of chance and it is not the biggest thing in his life.

But if you do agree with this perspective of what he said, then it becomes blatently clear why Dez was so animated in the way he handled the Detroit loss. To people like Dez, and this is simply my opinion, football IS everything. He has the talent to be the best and will settle for nothing less, even if he looks like a madman on the sidelines. You see, Dez realizes that he will only be this age once in his life. He will only have this opportunity once in his life. Once it is gone, thats it. He will NEVER get the opportunity to compete for the right to say he was the best on the best team. And THAT is the approach that I believe Plan thinks Romo should have.

Now, someone else may see that and say: It is simply a way of defusing the hurt that goes along with losing. It's HIS way of dealing with adversity. Which, very well may be true.

But in no way does it warrant any truth to the claims that Romo doesn't care about winning or losing. I'm sure he does. But to what degree is the real question?

I hope this helps.


Dave, that might be the most rational thing you've ever said on here. Had Plan stated it that way, I wouldn't have called him on it.

The thing is, everyone is different. Just because Romo doesn't act like winning a football game is a life or death endeavor, doesn't mean that he doesn't care. (Triple negative for the win).


Thanks Ht.
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Dirk Gently


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's brilliant that everyone is so sure that this team has no will to win and can't pull together a comeback...

When last year ended with 4 4th qtr comebacks in 5 games won and a 5th one that was sent to overtime and lost on a fluke fumble
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
I think it's brilliant that everyone is so sure that this team has no will to win and can't pull together a comeback...

When last year ended with 4 4th qtr comebacks in 5 games won and a 5th one that was sent to overtime and lost on a fluke fumble


Well, lets look at it like this. They don't have to have 4th qtr comebacks to prove or disprove that they have a winning or losing mentality. This post could be answered simply by the outcome of this season.

The Boys are in 1st place in the sorry NFC East with a 4-4 record. It could be better, it could be worse. But you now have 8 games to defend your point of view.

The division, once again is there for the taking. Just like it has been for this team in 4 out of the last 5 years. They have to face each NFC East opponent 1 more time each. Almost half of their remaining games. 3 of their remaining games look to be tough: GB, Chic, NO. That leaves Minn and Oak.

If they can win their divisional games, that is 3 more wins right there, and beat Oak and Minn, the division should be theirs. 9-7 could do it with a sweep of the NFC East.

I am not calling the tougher games losses already, but a team with a winning mentality should be able to take care of buisness with a favorable schedule AND already in the lead in their division.

Let the games begin!
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9907446/skip-bayless-why-jerry-jones-dallas-cowboys-win

Here's a snippet:

Quote:
The Cowboys fan in me is getting increasingly sick and tired of watching Jerry Jones enable his team to lose without fear. Super nice guys Romo, Jason Garrett, Jason Witten and DeMarcus Ware now lead the league in post-loss patience -- in handling tougher and tougher media questions with shrugging imperturbability -- because they aren't afraid of being held accountable by the owner.

Players know the bucks stop with Jerry, effectively their coach/GM/owner, and as long as his seats are filled and his TV ratings are through the roof and Forbes still ranks his team the NFL's most valuable, and he remains the world's best-known sports owner and the most famous figure in fame-crazed Dallas and gets to address the media in the locker room after every game (no owner or GM does that) players will be made to feel absolutely no urgency to win.


Quote:
I don't believe anyone in this franchise or on this team takes winning nearly as now-or-never seriously as many early '90s Cowboys did because this team's sole leader -- the owner -- has gotten lost in his mirror.


Even a dolt like Skip Bayless has noticed the lack of interest in winning from this team.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bayless is a moron. Players not being held accountable? That certainly hasn't been the case since Garrett has become the HC.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Bayless is a moron. Players not being held accountable? That certainly hasn't been the case since Garrett has become the HC.


Read the article. Bayless is an idiot, but he's actually spot on this time.
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Bayless is a moron. Players not being held accountable? That certainly hasn't been the case since Garrett has become the HC.


Read the article. Bayless is an idiot, but he's actually spot on this time.


I would say the organization as a whole have done a very poor job of holding players accountable for nearly 2 decades. People may say that a temporary benching Carter or Claiborne is accountability. Perhaps on a very small scale. But on a large scale... the organization still lacks in that department.

What sends a bigger message to players?

1. Benching a player during a game who was playing very poorly?

or

2. Guaranteeing nearly all of Jay Ratliff's entire 2013 salary after a poor couple of seasons on the field, fighting with the team owner, an offseason DUI, and refusing to cooperate with the team's medical staff?

In a player's mind, it's kinda like saying... if I suck the coach may pull me out. But, as long as I don't kill anybody during my DUI, I'm still going to get PAID.

For every situation where there might be an inkling of accountability, there is an egregious lack of accountability somewhere else.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So long as the sins of each past administration are held against the current, no happiness will ever be found. I think we all overwhelmingly hope that the day Jerry steps aside as GM is near at hand, but that doesn't mean we have to sit in the corner pouting that nothing will change.

Changes ARE happening before our very eyes. You can argue the merits of those changes. You can argue the effectiveness. But to deny them outright is nothing more that being blind to the situation.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
So long as the sins of each past administration are held against the current, no happiness will ever be found. I think we all overwhelmingly hope that the day Jerry steps aside as GM is near at hand, but that doesn't mean we have to sit in the corner pouting that nothing will change.

Changes ARE happening before our very eyes. You can argue the merits of those changes. You can argue the effectiveness. But to deny them outright is nothing more that being blind to the situation.


I do wonder if (when) Jerry steps down as GM and Stephen takes over if he will still hold true to his word and hire an actual GM (1. has anyone ever found the actual quote? and 2. will be weird to actually discuss GM candidates...)
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
So long as the sins of each past administration are held against the current, no happiness will ever be found. I think we all overwhelmingly hope that the day Jerry steps aside as GM is near at hand, but that doesn't mean we have to sit in the corner pouting that nothing will change.

Changes ARE happening before our very eyes. You can argue the merits of those changes. You can argue the effectiveness. But to deny them outright is nothing more that being blind to the situation.


I do wonder if (when) Jerry steps down as GM and Stephen takes over if he will still hold true to his word and hire an actual GM (1. has anyone ever found the actual quote? and 2. will be weird to actually discuss GM candidates...)


I'd nominate Garrett as a GM candidate.
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Tony7188


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Bayless is a moron. Players not being held accountable? That certainly hasn't been the case since Garrett has become the HC.


Read the article. Bayless is an idiot, but he's actually spot on this time.


I would say the organization as a whole have done a very poor job of holding players accountable for nearly 2 decades. People may say that a temporary benching Carter or Claiborne is accountability. Perhaps on a very small scale. But on a large scale... the organization still lacks in that department.

What sends a bigger message to players?

1. Benching a player during a game who was playing very poorly?

or

2. Guaranteeing nearly all of Jay Ratliff's entire 2013 salary after a poor couple of seasons on the field, fighting with the team owner, an offseason DUI, and refusing to cooperate with the team's medical staff?

In a player's mind, it's kinda like saying... if I suck the coach may pull me out. But, as long as I don't kill anybody during my DUI, I'm still going to get PAID.

For every situation where there might be an inkling of accountability, there is an egregious lack of accountability somewhere else.


You neglected to mention the restructuring of contracts Jerry has done. When you restructure a contract it has an effect and can make certain players LESS accountable for their actions.

The one thing that the Cowboys could have done to hold players accountable for their play and put everyone on notice was to let Romo play out the final season of his contract (ala Joe Flacco did last year) and let Spencer walk. This would have shown everyone that the owner means business when he speaks about winning another SB and it would have challenged Tony Romo and the team to perform better.

Instead JJ signs Romo to a 100 million dollar contract and restructures a bunch of contracts, giving the perception that winning and player accountability is not their biggest concern.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
So long as the sins of each past administration are held against the current, no happiness will ever be found. I think we all overwhelmingly hope that the day Jerry steps aside as GM is near at hand, but that doesn't mean we have to sit in the corner pouting that nothing will change.

Changes ARE happening before our very eyes. You can argue the merits of those changes. You can argue the effectiveness. But to deny them outright is nothing more that being blind to the situation.


I do wonder if (when) Jerry steps down as GM and Stephen takes over if he will still hold true to his word and hire an actual GM (1. has anyone ever found the actual quote? and 2. will be weird to actually discuss GM candidates...)


I'd nominate Garrett as a GM candidate.


I'd be all for that.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
So long as the sins of each past administration are held against the current, no happiness will ever be found. I think we all overwhelmingly hope that the day Jerry steps aside as GM is near at hand, but that doesn't mean we have to sit in the corner pouting that nothing will change.

Changes ARE happening before our very eyes. You can argue the merits of those changes. You can argue the effectiveness. But to deny them outright is nothing more that being blind to the situation.


The sins of the past administration are the same as the current one, T_O7. Ratliff was given that extension while Garrett was head coach. Players were restructured under his tenure as head coach. Romo was given his ridiculous extension 8 months ago. And more players will be restructured this off season to further the problem. That's why they don't care about winning. They don't have to. They're not held accountable for anything and will be paid huge salaries whether they win or lose. Heck, they'll get paid even if they don't even play!
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
So long as the sins of each past administration are held against the current, no happiness will ever be found. I think we all overwhelmingly hope that the day Jerry steps aside as GM is near at hand, but that doesn't mean we have to sit in the corner pouting that nothing will change.

Changes ARE happening before our very eyes. You can argue the merits of those changes. You can argue the effectiveness. But to deny them outright is nothing more that being blind to the situation.


You've been saying this for 3+ years. Despite all the changes, the results haven't changed and the team, as such, remains a mediocre one. At some point, more significant changes will be need to change the entire mindset and attitude within the organization and, thus, the results.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
So long as the sins of each past administration are held against the current, no happiness will ever be found. I think we all overwhelmingly hope that the day Jerry steps aside as GM is near at hand, but that doesn't mean we have to sit in the corner pouting that nothing will change.

Changes ARE happening before our very eyes. You can argue the merits of those changes. You can argue the effectiveness. But to deny them outright is nothing more that being blind to the situation.


You've been saying this for 3+ years. Despite all the changes, the results haven't changed and the team, as such, remains a mediocre one. At some point, more significant changes will be need to change the entire mindset and attitude within the organization and, thus, the results.


Not discounting we need to continue improving. My sentiments, and they have been constant, is that we are changing things. For better or for worse. Bucking a 20 year trend and drafting not one, but two OL in the first is remarkable.

Like I said, you can argue the merits of the changes. But if you sit here and say nothing has change to try and perpetuate a lazy narrative, then you have your head in the sand. Things are far from perfect. But things are not the same.
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