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Are these players used to losing?
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Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4581
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Are these players used to losing? Reply with quote

I had a lengthy train ride home today in the infamous NYC subway system, with my car in for repair.

And on that ride home, I'm thinking to myself the whole time about that Dez Bryant blowup issue/non-issue thing. And it made me wonder: Are these cowboys used to losing?

Witten is always calm and mellow on the sideline. Romo has lost that grinning confidence edge as he walks the sideline, even sits down now in between offensive possessions when he used to stand the whole time, anxious to go back in. Hatcher, Carr, everyone.. you see them sitting, or staring relaxedly at their counterparts from the sideline. In close games, I want to see my players hyped. I want to see them standing, anxious, ready, eager to get back on the field and fight for a victory. But we just don't see that from this team very often.

Dez, as much as I feel his actions were wrong, although warranted, had a point - why are we not all fiery and animalistic to get back in there? Where is that passion? He sure had it. Where is that confidence that, when we get back the ball, we're going to put the game away? He sure had it. Why didn't anyone else?

My best guess, is the team simply being used to losing. Accepting the fact that they will likely struggle or lose, accepting of the fact that they tend to lose, and not having that drive to remedy it. That sort of thing, it spreads to everyone like a disease. Defeatism is a killer among any team, in any sport, or at any job. Is this team suffering from such a disease? Let me know your thoughts.
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HDsportsfan


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if it's the fact they have become used to losing and just aacept that fact.....

But it can certainly see how it can wear on your mind and just defeat you. It seems we're just in a big 'ol circle jerk.
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Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HDsportsfan wrote:
I don't know if it's the fact they have become used to losing and just aacept that fact.....

But it can certainly see how it can wear on your mind and just defeat you. It seems we're just in a big 'ol circle jerk.


See, the thing is that when a human, any human, feels like a situation is one they will usually not thrive in, they defeat themselves with the mentality of "Meh, we're probably gonna lose anyway" and lack that extra something from deep down inside to pull through.

When one player does it, and looks the part, the others start to as well. And it spreads. It becomes a mentality that in itself leaves you beaten before the clock is even expired.

And if this mentality has really set in, it scares me - because the only way to fix such a thing, is to clean house and get rid of that mentality. It's like having a gangrenous limb - you have to amputate to save the rest of the body. And if it's gotten that far, to where we'd need to amputate to remove that disease of defeatism, this team is in for a very long rebuilding process.
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The_Slamman


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HDsportsfan wrote:
I don't know if it's the fact they have become used to losing and just aacept that fact.....

But it can certainly see how it can wear on your mind and just defeat you. It seems we're just in a big 'ol circle jerk.


Agreed. That's why I'm advocating new blood to break the circle.
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Dirk Gently


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're projecting. Again, I think the perception problem is that fans have seen this team go 142-138 since their last super bowl and so there's a tendency to say "they're 0.500 again, nothing has changed" because, hey, two 8-8 years followed by 4-4 totally fits the pattern, right?

Except it doesn't. For a variety of reasons. I've gone into them elsewhere and many of you aren't buying. That's fine.

But this team is WAY better than last year's team-- much more than the one game difference in their records to this point. And last year's team was better than 2011: same record, tougher schedule, many more injuries.

All 0.500 teams are not created equal. But no one is forcing you to buy what I'm selling. All I've got's this red guitar, three chords and the truth.
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Dirk Gently


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say this: the team needs to learn to win. That's not the same as being used to losing. They need seasoning. They need to not make holds on 3rd down trying to run the clock out. They need to not bust coverages in prevent. They need to not reach for TDs that they aren't going to get and cause turnovers. They need to grow as a team and keep fighting till they finish turning the corner. And then they'll end it.

You almost never notice greatness happening... you look back and see the pattern after.
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 2959
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Dallas94Ware"]
HDsportsfan wrote:
I don't know if it's the fact they have become used to losing and just aacept that fact.....

But it can certainly see how it can wear on your mind and just defeat you. It seems we're just in a big 'ol circle jerk.


Quote:
See, the thing is that when a human, any human, feels like a situation is one they will usually not thrive in, they defeat themselves with the mentality of "Meh, we're probably gonna lose anyway" and lack that extra something from deep down inside to pull through.



See, this is what made Jimmy Johnson sooooo awesome! he knew how to instill, in each player, his own sense of confidence. He knew how to challenge a player. Don't give him more than he can handle, BUT, and make his challenge something attainable. This builds confidence. Once that is established, the player performs like he is supposed to in order to win.

One of my favorite quotes from Johnson was something like:

"Treat a player as he is and thats all he will ever be, treat a player like what he could and should be and, eventually, he becomes that."

But, in regards to your post about losing being a state oif mind, I agree 100%
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rtnldave"]
Dallas94Ware wrote:
HDsportsfan wrote:
I don't know if it's the fact they have become used to losing and just aacept that fact.....

But it can certainly see how it can wear on your mind and just defeat you. It seems we're just in a big 'ol circle jerk.


Quote:
See, the thing is that when a human, any human, feels like a situation is one they will usually not thrive in, they defeat themselves with the mentality of "Meh, we're probably gonna lose anyway" and lack that extra something from deep down inside to pull through.



See, this is what made Jimmy Johnson sooooo awesome! he knew how to instill, in each player, his own sense of confidence. He knew how to challenge a player. Don't give him more than he can handle, BUT, make his challenge something attainable. This builds confidence. Once that is established, the player performs like he is supposed to in order to win.

One of my favorite quotes from Johnson was something like:

"Treat a player as he is and thats all he will ever be, treat a player like what he could and should be and, eventually, he becomes that."

But, in regards to your post about losing being a state oif mind, I agree 100%
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be WARE94


Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 2246
Location: Philadelphia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rtnldave"]
Dallas94Ware wrote:
HDsportsfan wrote:
I don't know if it's the fact they have become used to losing and just aacept that fact.....

But it can certainly see how it can wear on your mind and just defeat you. It seems we're just in a big 'ol circle jerk.


Quote:
See, the thing is that when a human, any human, feels like a situation is one they will usually not thrive in, they defeat themselves with the mentality of "Meh, we're probably gonna lose anyway" and lack that extra something from deep down inside to pull through.



See, this is what made Jimmy Johnson sooooo awesome! he knew how to instill, in each player, his own sense of confidence. He knew how to challenge a player. Don't give him more than he can handle, BUT, and make his challenge something attainable. This builds confidence. Once that is established, the player performs like he is supposed to in order to win.

One of my favorite quotes from Johnson was something like:

"Treat a player as he is and thats all he will ever be, treat a player like what he could and should be and, eventually, he becomes that."

But, in regards to your post about losing being a state oif mind, I agree 100%


excellent post.....jimmy johnsons "a football life" showed me how important/awesome a GREAT coach can be and made me totally re-evaluate a coaches role in winning.....especially in football with so many moving parts.....you NEED a great coach to keep it all together
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 2959
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="be WARE94"]
Rtnldave wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
HDsportsfan wrote:
I don't know if it's the fact they have become used to losing and just aacept that fact.....

But it can certainly see how it can wear on your mind and just defeat you. It seems we're just in a big 'ol circle jerk.


Quote:
See, the thing is that when a human, any human, feels like a situation is one they will usually not thrive in, they defeat themselves with the mentality of "Meh, we're probably gonna lose anyway" and lack that extra something from deep down inside to pull through.



See, this is what made Jimmy Johnson sooooo awesome! he knew how to instill, in each player, his own sense of confidence. He knew how to challenge a player. Don't give him more than he can handle, BUT, and make his challenge something attainable. This builds confidence. Once that is established, the player performs like he is supposed to in order to win.

One of my favorite quotes from Johnson was something like:

"Treat a player as he is and thats all he will ever be, treat a player like what he could and should be and, eventually, he becomes that."

But, in regards to your post about losing being a state oif mind, I agree 100%


excellent post.....jimmy johnsons "a football life" showed me how important/awesome a GREAT coach can be and made me totally re-evaluate a coaches role in winning.....especially in football with so many moving parts.....you NEED a great coach to keep it all together



Thank you Be Ware.
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Northland


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have often wondered if athletes on teams say to themselves we just don't have the horses to compete. Despite how hard individuals may train and despite how good some players are I wonder if they look around the locker room and think to themselves we are in trouble this week. I am not saying that the Cowboys do this but it makes me think that human nature being what it is at some point some one says we can't do it right now.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly don't think you can put Witten in the used to losing category. If he had become apathetic, why would he get upset when Garrett tries to make him take a day off practice. Why would play with his jaw wired shut, and a sprained spleen if he believed hey were just gonna be 8-8 anyway.

I know a lot of people think Jerry should have had the foresight to predict that Ratliff and Spencer would not play all year, and Ware would miss significant time, due to injury. I was against franchising Spencer, and restructuring Ratliff. That said, All three of those guys healthy and playing, with Hatcher and I think our D would be significantly better. We are getting better about not signing or re-signing older players, but when these guys are hitting 30, you have to make some tough decisions. Especially after the implementation of the rookie cap, you just have to really consider getting max value. Draft picks are a premium, and we should be making it a priority to load up on them. That way when a starter goes down, we have better depth.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's worse than members of the team being used to losing. I think it's more that they don't care whether they win or lose. The indifference and complacency are what have kept us a mediocre team over the better part of the last 20 years. Jerry is fine with mediocrity so long as he can continue to sell the brand rather than a good product, and the team has merrily followed along because he pays them very well with little-to-no expectation of winning.

It's a cultural problem. Many of us have said it for years.
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Tony7188


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this reasoning is spot on. I think a lot of these players on this team has lost so much they don't have the confidence to come back and win games. You have to hate losing and the only one I know for sure that hates it is Dez Bryant.

He's not like Tony Romo, who said "every loss hurts the same, it's no difference" in his press conference last Sunday. Every loss shouldn't hurt the same to a player.
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Tony7188


Joined: 02 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
I think it's worse than members of the team being used to losing. I think it's more that they don't care whether they win or lose. The indifference and complacency are what have kept us a mediocre team over the better part of the last 20 years. Jerry is fine with mediocrity so long as he can continue to sell the brand rather than a good product, and the team has merrily followed along because he pays them very well with little-to-no expectation of winning.

It's a cultural problem. Many of us have said it for years.


What I find shocking is this laissez faire attitude by Jerry and his son, blindly thinking that this team will someday win a SB.
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