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Kyle Finally admits a mistake - 1st time in 4 years
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chris Russell reported on ESPN 980 that's there is wrestling match going on in Ashburn and it's 3 on 2.

He didn't really say, but he eluded to the fact that RG3, Snyder and Bruce Allen are on one side and on the other side there is Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

If it keeps going bad, it's obvious who wins this.


Man, another coaching regime'. Here we go again.. Crying or Very sad
If a director of personnel/head coach can't have an overall winning record after 4 years with an organization, there's a valid question as to if they should still be the person making the personnel decisions and be the head coach

If it were to happen, I'd equate it to the Seahawks firing Mike Holmgren and then hiring Pete Carroll. That seemed to work out for them after some struggles at first.

Just like with Shanahan and the Redskins - Holmgren had too much control and too many responsibilities and they were never able to get over the hump, eventhough they came close a few times.

Well Mike hasn't even come close to winning a Super Bowl.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chris Russell reported on ESPN 980 that's there is wrestling match going on in Ashburn and it's 3 on 2.

He didn't really say, but he eluded to the fact that RG3, Snyder and Bruce Allen are on one side and on the other side there is Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

If it keeps going bad, it's obvious who wins this.


Man, another coaching regime'. Here we go again.. Crying or Very sad
If a director of personnel/head coach can't have an overall winning record after 4 years with an organization, there's a valid question as to if they should still be the person making the personnel decisions and be the head coach

If it were to happen, I'd equate it to the Seahawks firing Mike Holmgren and then hiring Pete Carroll. That seemed to work out for them after some struggles at first.

Just like with Shanahan and the Redskins - Holmgren had too much control and too many responsibilities and they were never able to get over the hump, eventhough they came close a few times.

Well Mike hasn't even come close to winning a Super Bowl.


Mostly agree-- just feel maybe he should be cut some slack for that HUGE Salary Cap shackle ..
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chris Russell reported on ESPN 980 that's there is wrestling match going on in Ashburn and it's 3 on 2.

He didn't really say, but he eluded to the fact that RG3, Snyder and Bruce Allen are on one side and on the other side there is Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

If it keeps going bad, it's obvious who wins this.


Man, another coaching regime'. Here we go again.. Crying or Very sad
If a director of personnel/head coach can't have an overall winning record after 4 years with an organization, there's a valid question as to if they should still be the person making the personnel decisions and be the head coach

If it were to happen, I'd equate it to the Seahawks firing Mike Holmgren and then hiring Pete Carroll. That seemed to work out for them after some struggles at first.

Just like with Shanahan and the Redskins - Holmgren had too much control and too many responsibilities and they were never able to get over the hump, eventhough they came close a few times.

Well Mike hasn't even come close to winning a Super Bowl.


We're 'tween that rock and hard place.. Can't bring him back for just the one year. Lame Duck status is a killa.. So it's let him go or re-sign for 3-4 more years.. ONE year isn't really a legit option..
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chris Russell reported on ESPN 980 that's there is wrestling match going on in Ashburn and it's 3 on 2.

He didn't really say, but he eluded to the fact that RG3, Snyder and Bruce Allen are on one side and on the other side there is Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

If it keeps going bad, it's obvious who wins this.


Man, another coaching regime'. Here we go again.. Crying or Very sad
If a director of personnel/head coach can't have an overall winning record after 4 years with an organization, there's a valid question as to if they should still be the person making the personnel decisions and be the head coach

If it were to happen, I'd equate it to the Seahawks firing Mike Holmgren and then hiring Pete Carroll. That seemed to work out for them after some struggles at first.

Just like with Shanahan and the Redskins - Holmgren had too much control and too many responsibilities and they were never able to get over the hump, eventhough they came close a few times.

Well Mike hasn't even come close to winning a Super Bowl.
Except they actually hired Jim Mora Jr and sucked even more after firing Holmgren. They got bailed out by Pete Carroll when he suddenly left USC due to pending NCAA investigations. They just got lucky.

Firing Shanahan would be stupid. This is a long term rebuild project, and switching coaches on a young QB is going to hurt his progress.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chris Russell reported on ESPN 980 that's there is wrestling match going on in Ashburn and it's 3 on 2.

He didn't really say, but he eluded to the fact that RG3, Snyder and Bruce Allen are on one side and on the other side there is Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

If it keeps going bad, it's obvious who wins this.


Man, another coaching regime'. Here we go again.. Crying or Very sad
If a director of personnel/head coach can't have an overall winning record after 4 years with an organization, there's a valid question as to if they should still be the person making the personnel decisions and be the head coach

If it were to happen, I'd equate it to the Seahawks firing Mike Holmgren and then hiring Pete Carroll. That seemed to work out for them after some struggles at first.

Just like with Shanahan and the Redskins - Holmgren had too much control and too many responsibilities and they were never able to get over the hump, eventhough they came close a few times.

Well Mike hasn't even come close to winning a Super Bowl.


Mostly agree-- just feel maybe he should be cut some slack for that HUGE Salary Cap shackle ..
yes, and the salary cap problems came about because of what he and Bruce Allen did with Haynesworth's, Cornelius Griffin's, Randy Thomas', Hall's, Randle El's, CP's and Andre Carter's contracts in 2010 to try to cheat the system and get out of salary cap hell.

We all know that it was a witch hunt by Mara and other owners but still, we knew the unwritten rule as did the cowboys and we're paying the consequence because we didn't play game.

I blame that on Allen and Shanahan also.
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Last edited by turtle28 on Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chris Russell reported on ESPN 980 that's there is wrestling match going on in Ashburn and it's 3 on 2.

He didn't really say, but he eluded to the fact that RG3, Snyder and Bruce Allen are on one side and on the other side there is Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

If it keeps going bad, it's obvious who wins this.


Man, another coaching regime'. Here we go again.. Crying or Very sad
If a director of personnel/head coach can't have an overall winning record after 4 years with an organization, there's a valid question as to if they should still be the person making the personnel decisions and be the head coach

If it were to happen, I'd equate it to the Seahawks firing Mike Holmgren and then hiring Pete Carroll. That seemed to work out for them after some struggles at first.

Just like with Shanahan and the Redskins - Holmgren had too much control and too many responsibilities and they were never able to get over the hump, eventhough they came close a few times.

Well Mike hasn't even come close to winning a Super Bowl.
Except they actually hired Jim Mora Jr and sucked even more after firing Holmgren. They got bailed out by Pete Carroll when he suddenly left USC due to pending NCAA investigations. They just got lucky.

Firing Shanahan would be stupid. This is a long term rebuild project, and switching coaches on a young QB is going to hurt his progress.
oh yeah, I forgot about that year. It was just one right? 09?
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chris Russell reported on ESPN 980 that's there is wrestling match going on in Ashburn and it's 3 on 2.

He didn't really say, but he eluded to the fact that RG3, Snyder and Bruce Allen are on one side and on the other side there is Mike and Kyle Shanahan.

If it keeps going bad, it's obvious who wins this.


Man, another coaching regime'. Here we go again.. Crying or Very sad
If a director of personnel/head coach can't have an overall winning record after 4 years with an organization, there's a valid question as to if they should still be the person making the personnel decisions and be the head coach

If it were to happen, I'd equate it to the Seahawks firing Mike Holmgren and then hiring Pete Carroll. That seemed to work out for them after some struggles at first.

Just like with Shanahan and the Redskins - Holmgren had too much control and too many responsibilities and they were never able to get over the hump, eventhough they came close a few times.

Well Mike hasn't even come close to winning a Super Bowl.
Except they actually hired Jim Mora Jr and sucked even more after firing Holmgren. They got bailed out by Pete Carroll when he suddenly left USC due to pending NCAA investigations. They just got lucky.

Firing Shanahan would be stupid. This is a long term rebuild project, and switching coaches on a young QB is going to hurt his progress.
oh yeah, I forgot about that year. It was just one right? 09?
Probably a year most Seahawks fans try to forget.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Probably a year most Seahawks fans try to forget.
5-11, not horrible for a first year head coach.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Kyle Finally admits a mistake - 1st time in 4 years Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfceast&id=58204&src=desktop

Kyle Shanahan says late play-calling in Denver wasn’t good enough

He said that they didn't have run plays called in the fourth quarter and he's not happy about it either, they want balance and they didn't have it in the fourth quarter.

He said if they had gotten first downs, he promised it would have been different and they would have run more.

Which, I come back with... We were running the ball well, that would have gotten you first downs Kyle!

Quote:
"That third series in particular started out with a play-pass I wanted versus a certain coverage," Shanahan said. "And I didn't get that. That's one play in particular I wish I ran."

Shanahan said he did not realize until after the game the run-pass disparity in the fourth quarter. They had run the ball on six of their eight plays in the third quarter.

"I don't like it either," Shanahan said. "I know we'll do better. I know what we want as a philosophy. We want to be balanced. We weren't balanced there in the fourth quarter. I can attribute it to a bunch of things. It's not something you want to do as a playcaller."


Let's see-Kyle wanted a particular pass against a certain coverage. He called the pass but didn't get the coverage.. Well Gee-Isn't it BoyWonders' job to recognize that and change the play .. He should ask himself .. What would Peyton do, Or Brees, or Romo ..
Kyle's just being P C and taking the heat ..
they don't let him audible. I don't even see rg3 call out blocking schemes or blitzes.

See, the Shanahan's have RG3 in a box, and won't let him out. Similar to how they treated qbs in the past over the past decade.


They won't let him audible .. ? Really? If he just does it -- what are they going to do ,,bench him !?
I've never seen RG3 audible. I think even when they're in hurry up - Kyle is calling into his ear on which play to run.


In a Box? Man this thread just gets dumber and dumber. Did they not use RG3 to the fullest last year? And whose decision was it to read Defenses and run, handoff to Morris etc.?? They let him improvise more than most other QBs in the whole &% league last year. What a ----- comment to say they had him in a box like their QB's the last decade.

Hard to blame the Shanahans if RG3 took two steps back but wasn't everyone applauding them designing an Offense specifically for RG3, one that got him comfortable and allowed him to throw for 20TD's and 5INT's?? Then he came out and sucked this year and people just want to blame Kyle and Mike only. Really being ignorant with this line of thinking. Short memory....

If anything, they are all struggling. But RG3 is not executing *^%# . When he has WR's WIDE open he's not even seeing them but it's all Kyle's fault? OK...... But I put the blame on all of them, not just the coaches...
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Brian23


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty sure Mike is only siding with Kyle because its his son. He's had to step in a few times to clean up his messes so far, its just an awkward situation.
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more we run the ball the more comfortable RG3 is in the offense. That is what still blows my mind about the Denver game. Running the ball not only helps RG3 but it helps the Defense. Sustaining drives keeps our D on the sideline...... Kyle deserves 90% of the blame for the lose in Denver. Morris had 93 yards rushing in the first half, and got one carry in the second half!!!!!! Blows my mind.... Denver wasnt even really playing the run in the 4th quarter...They were just Teeing off on RG3 and he took a Patrick Ramsey beating!!! When we run the ball everything else opens up. RG3 can use play action to get more time in the pocket and allow recievers to get open!!!
One thing that kills me about RG3 is on 2nd and 6 he tries to throw a bomb to a double covered reciever insted of trying to sustain a drive and get in a rythem!!! The big play comes when safties are cheating up trying to help against the run!!! We dont do a very good job in situational football late in games!!!
KYLE RUN THE BALL
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
Pretty sure Mike is only siding with Kyle because its his son. He's had to step in a few times to clean up his messes so far, its just an awkward situation.
Exactly. That's why you don't hire family. Snyder should have learned this is 2001. One of the reasons Snyder wanted Marty gone was because he hired his son and his brother to the qbs coach and defensive coordinator. There is no difference between then, and what Mike is doing here.

Mike isn't going to fire his son. It's never going to happen, no matter how much the offense struggles, Kyle has a job as long as his Daddy is HC and in charge of all football operations.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Kyle Finally admits a mistake - 1st time in 4 years Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfceast&id=58204&src=desktop

Kyle Shanahan says late play-calling in Denver wasn’t good enough

He said that they didn't have run plays called in the fourth quarter and he's not happy about it either, they want balance and they didn't have it in the fourth quarter.

He said if they had gotten first downs, he promised it would have been different and they would have run more.

Which, I come back with... We were running the ball well, that would have gotten you first downs Kyle!

Quote:
"That third series in particular started out with a play-pass I wanted versus a certain coverage," Shanahan said. "And I didn't get that. That's one play in particular I wish I ran."

Shanahan said he did not realize until after the game the run-pass disparity in the fourth quarter. They had run the ball on six of their eight plays in the third quarter.

"I don't like it either," Shanahan said. "I know we'll do better. I know what we want as a philosophy. We want to be balanced. We weren't balanced there in the fourth quarter. I can attribute it to a bunch of things. It's not something you want to do as a playcaller."


Let's see-Kyle wanted a particular pass against a certain coverage. He called the pass but didn't get the coverage.. Well Gee-Isn't it BoyWonders' job to recognize that and change the play .. He should ask himself .. What would Peyton do, Or Brees, or Romo ..
Kyle's just being P C and taking the heat ..
they don't let him audible. I don't even see rg3 call out blocking schemes or blitzes.

See, the Shanahan's have RG3 in a box, and won't let him out. Similar to how they treated qbs in the past over the past decade.


They won't let him audible .. ? Really? If he just does it -- what are they going to do ,,bench him !?
I've never seen RG3 audible. I think even when they're in hurry up - Kyle is calling into his ear on which play to run.


In a Box? Man this thread just gets dumber and dumber. Did they not use RG3 to the fullest last year? And whose decision was it to read Defenses and run, handoff to Morris etc.?? They let him improvise more than most other QBs in the whole &% league last year. What a ----- comment to say they had him in a box like their QB's the last decade.

Hard to blame the Shanahans if RG3 took two steps back but wasn't everyone applauding them designing an Offense specifically for RG3, one that got him comfortable and allowed him to throw for 20TD's and 5INT's?? Then he came out and sucked this year and people just want to blame Kyle and Mike only. Really being ignorant with this line of thinking. Short memory....

If anything, they are all struggling. But RG3 is not executing *^%# . When he has WR's WIDE open he's not even seeing them but it's all Kyle's fault? OK...... But I put the blame on all of them, not just the coaches...
So what you're saying is that our coaches bare no responsibility in our offense struggling, it's all RG3's fault?

Since 2010, it's never been all the coaches fault, nor all the players fault. Except for a 7 game stretch last year, since 2010, it's been a combined effort in suckage from the coaching staff and the players.

Kyle abandons what gets him leads and what's working in his playcalling all the time, he's been doing it since 2010. It's cost us several wins over the past 4 years.

There is no doubt RG3 is uncomfortable, overthinking and struggling as are the wrs, but there are plays that can be called that we've been successful in executing all season and those plays aren't being used enough.

The zone stretch run play.

Then, run bootlegs and misdirection pass plays off of that run action.

The pistol formation with the zone read running plays.

Play action off of that zone read and pistol action.

These are the plays we should be running, these are the plays that get us success and get us leads, but sometimes he doesn't stick to the plan.

We were tied last game, and Kyle had us come out and start winging it like we had Peyton Manning back there, after one 4 run loss by Alfred Morris in that third quarter in Denver.

Kyle panics too often with the run game, then he goes straight to the passing game when our Qb is not developed enough to be a regular drop back passer who throws it 40 to 50 times a game and completes them with pin point accuracy, sees the field well and competes 65% of those throws.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Kyle Finally admits a mistake - 1st time in 4 years Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfceast&id=58204&src=desktop

Kyle Shanahan says late play-calling in Denver wasn’t good enough

He said that they didn't have run plays called in the fourth quarter and he's not happy about it either, they want balance and they didn't have it in the fourth quarter.

He said if they had gotten first downs, he promised it would have been different and they would have run more.

Which, I come back with... We were running the ball well, that would have gotten you first downs Kyle!

Quote:
"That third series in particular started out with a play-pass I wanted versus a certain coverage," Shanahan said. "And I didn't get that. That's one play in particular I wish I ran."

Shanahan said he did not realize until after the game the run-pass disparity in the fourth quarter. They had run the ball on six of their eight plays in the third quarter.

"I don't like it either," Shanahan said. "I know we'll do better. I know what we want as a philosophy. We want to be balanced. We weren't balanced there in the fourth quarter. I can attribute it to a bunch of things. It's not something you want to do as a playcaller."


Let's see-Kyle wanted a particular pass against a certain coverage. He called the pass but didn't get the coverage.. Well Gee-Isn't it BoyWonders' job to recognize that and change the play .. He should ask himself .. What would Peyton do, Or Brees, or Romo ..
Kyle's just being P C and taking the heat ..
they don't let him audible. I don't even see rg3 call out blocking schemes or blitzes.

See, the Shanahan's have RG3 in a box, and won't let him out. Similar to how they treated qbs in the past over the past decade.


They won't let him audible .. ? Really? If he just does it -- what are they going to do ,,bench him !?
I've never seen RG3 audible. I think even when they're in hurry up - Kyle is calling into his ear on which play to run.


In a Box? Man this thread just gets dumber and dumber. Did they not use RG3 to the fullest last year? And whose decision was it to read Defenses and run, handoff to Morris etc.?? They let him improvise more than most other QBs in the whole &% league last year. What a ----- comment to say they had him in a box like their QB's the last decade.

Hard to blame the Shanahans if RG3 took two steps back but wasn't everyone applauding them designing an Offense specifically for RG3, one that got him comfortable and allowed him to throw for 20TD's and 5INT's?? Then he came out and sucked this year and people just want to blame Kyle and Mike only. Really being ignorant with this line of thinking. Short memory....

If anything, they are all struggling. But RG3 is not executing *^%# . When he has WR's WIDE open he's not even seeing them but it's all Kyle's fault? OK...... But I put the blame on all of them, not just the coaches...
So what you're saying is that our coaches bare no responsibility in our offense struggling, it's all RG3's fault?

Since 2010, it's never been all the coaches fault, nor all the players fault. Except for a 7 game stretch last year, since 2010, it's been a combined effort in suckage from the coaching staff and the players.

Kyle abandons what gets him leads and what's working in his playcalling all the time, he's been doing it since 2010. It's cost us several wins over the past 4 years.

There is no doubt RG3 is uncomfortable, overthinking and struggling as are the wrs, but there are plays that can be called that we've been successful in executing all season and those plays aren't being used enough.

The zone stretch run play.

Then, run bootlegs and misdirection pass plays off of that run action.

The pistol formation with the zone read running plays.

Play action off of that zone read and pistol action.

These are the plays we should be running, these are the plays that get us success and get us leads, but sometimes he doesn't stick to the plan.

We were tied last game, and Kyle had us come out and start winging it like we had Peyton Manning back there, after one 4 run loss by Alfred Morris in that third quarter in Denver.

Kyle panics too often with the run game, then he goes straight to the passing game when our Qb is not developed enough to be a regular drop back passer who throws it 40 to 50 times a game and completes them with pin point accuracy, sees the field well and competes 65% of those throws.


Do You even read before you start typing?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
The more we run the ball the more comfortable RG3 is in the offense. That is what still blows my mind about the Denver game. Running the ball not only helps RG3 but it helps the Defense. Sustaining drives keeps our D on the sideline...... Kyle deserves 90% of the blame for the lose in Denver. Morris had 93 yards rushing in the first half, and got one carry in the second half!!!!!! Blows my mind.... Denver wasnt even really playing the run in the 4th quarter...They were just Teeing off on RG3 and he took a Patrick Ramsey beating!!! When we run the ball everything else opens up. RG3 can use play action to get more time in the pocket and allow recievers to get open!!!
One thing that kills me about RG3 is on 2nd and 6 he tries to throw a bomb to a double covered reciever insted of trying to sustain a drive and get in a rythem!!! The big play comes when safties are cheating up trying to help against the run!!! We dont do a very good job in situational football late in games!!!
KYLE RUN THE BALL
You know what Cooley said yesterday on ESPN 980?

Cooley said that we ran the same pass plays all year long, the same routes, that we just figured out different ways to run those plays and different kinds of play action to use at the line of scrimmage to confuse defenses.

This year though, the defenses have that year of tape on RG3. They know the few pass plays we run with him as our Qb and they are taking away Garcon's in right behind the frozen line backers off the play fake. He said we hit that play 86 times last year, and this year, defenses are taking that first read away.

Then, Rg3 is not fast enough coming off his first read to Garçon and getting to his second read of Hankerson, Reed or Moss.

He said last year and even this year, the passing offense was extremely simplified for RG3. He said that they ran a few patterns for the wide receivers and those were plays that RG3 was comfortable with and knew how to execute from his time at Baylor.

Just think about it for a second and what routes we ran most of the time.

We would run a bootleg off of the stretch zone run play, rg3 would come out to his right and there's be a WR or TE crossing in the middle and one of the two would be open.

Then, we'd run the pistol or read option play and have Garçon run an in route behind those line backers or someone else when Garçon was out and it'd be wide open for a huge gain.

Defenses have taken that first read away from RG3 this year and he's not quick enough to get off of it (or he forces it to Garçon anyways) and he never gets to his second or third read.

That's why our passing game "sucks right now" as Garçon so eloquently told Grant Paulsen.
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