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stillersenat
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 11633
Location: In over my head.
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 Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| JustPlainNasty wrote: | | stillersenat wrote: | | Timmons bit on the fake at the line. See the guy standing over the RB? He should have his back turned and charging the running QB. |
Yeah, I actually didn't even demonstrate how poorly he attacked this play. We have seen him do the same exact thing on similar plays that have broken for big plays. I believe Kethnaab actually illustrated it for us earlier this year on a play. He overreacts, almost greedily for a lack of a better expression in a way it seems leaning/looking into the gap of the other ILB's responsibility.His weight is shifted and worse yet flat footed, he got cut and taken totally out of the play. |
Also, I'm not giving Troy or Ike a pass as they both had support duties, but the primary guy on that play was Timmons for sure.
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| GaTechRavens wrote: | | Let's not be blinded by a flashy stat without taking a deep look at the context behind it. |
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wwhickok
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 17111
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| JustPlainNasty wrote: | | wwhickok wrote: | If you're going to blame someone, just based on looking at the images, blame Ike Taylor.
He's the only guy not tangled with someone, clear route to the QB, instead of going after him, he is back peddling, he never even crosses the hash marks until Pryor is 10 yards beyond him, his tackling route was terrible...please, someone explain that to me.
Now, having said all of that, the problem with this play was lack of discipline. These guys no better, heck, it was just a couple of seasons ago that this kind of crap happened against Tim Tebow. I thought we were beyond that, clearly not. |
I disagree. Of course its a team blah, blah, blah, but on this play two players had responsibility Timmons & Clark and through absolutely poor technique and failure to meet those responsibilities this play broke open. Taylor's effort or lack there of just didn't keep the play from coming a TD...even if he gave the effort and pursued on the proper angle it still would have been a very big gain...probably caught somewhere around the 35.
Anyway lets move on. I just wanted to point this out. |
While you're not wrong, there's a big difference between a TD and a tackle on the 35. A tackle on the 35 gives us a chacne to hold them to a FG or even better, knock them out of FG range. However, given how the game went, I doubt that would've happened. But also, that's not me trying to take away responsibility from Timmons or Clark, or anyone else on the defense for that matter. They bit hard on that fake and I'm SURE the Oakland Raiders were shocked as h3ll by it.
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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
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Location: Honolulu
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Thoughts on Ike as a possible safety?
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stillersenat
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Location: In over my head.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| JustPlainNasty wrote: | | Thoughts on Ike as a possible safety? |
Ike may not be quite what he was, but he is still damn good.
His top performances rarely get the hype they deserve. He should be, and is our #1 CB. We need to start developing his replacement sooner rather than later.
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| GaTechRavens wrote: | | Let's not be blinded by a flashy stat without taking a deep look at the context behind it. |
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CKSteeler
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| The images do make Taylor's choice of angle look poor, but watching it live gives you a better sense of the "oh [inappropriate/removed]" feeling that was probably going through his head as Pryor bust into the open and he realized just how fast he actually is. I don't know if the images do that justice. Watch how quickly Pryor covers ground compared to everyone else. |
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wwhickok
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| CKSteeler wrote: | | The images do make Taylor's choice of angle look poor, but watching it live gives you a better sense of the "oh [inappropriate/removed]" feeling that was probably going through his head as Pryor bust into the open and he realized just how fast he actually is. I don't know if the images do that justice. Watch how quickly Pryor covers ground compared to everyone else. |
That's an extremely fair point, the play actually took very little time to occur and I'm not talking about development I'm talking about him busting out and scoring. The entire play took almost no time at all. Even if Ike would've taken the correct route to him, let's be honest, would Ike have caught up to him? Ike is an excellent CB, but he isn't that fast, not anymore. This, fact of the matter, was a blown play across the board by the defense, everyone was at fault.
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Bobikus
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| CKSteeler wrote: | | I don't see how Casey Hampton, even in his prime, stops that play from happening. |
Defense could play differently with Hampton. He stonewalled the inside well enough that the other defenders could pay more attention outside without losing effectiveness against interior runs.
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armsteeld
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: In your head
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| stillersenat wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | Thoughts on Ike as a possible safety? |
Ike may not be quite what he was, but he is still damn good.
His top performances rarely get the hype they deserve. He should be, and is our #1 CB. We need to start developing his replacement sooner rather than later. |
Ike at Safety wouldn't be good unless it is an absolute passing down. I don't like the way that he attacks the LOS.
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kethnaab
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| JustPlainNasty wrote: | | stillersenat wrote: | | Timmons bit on the fake at the line. See the guy standing over the RB? He should have his back turned and charging the running QB. |
Yeah, I actually didn't even demonstrate how poorly he attacked this play. We have seen him do the same exact thing on similar plays that have broken for big plays. I believe Kethnaab actually illustrated it for us earlier this year on a play. He overreacts, almost greedily for a lack of a better expression in a way it seems leaning/looking into the gap of the other ILB's responsibility.His weight is shifted and worse yet flat footed, he got cut and taken totally out of the play. |
yep. Timmons is one of the least instinctive, lowest football-IQ guys on the team. Incredible that, after 7 years, a rookie is entrusted with calling the defense instead of Timmons.
as for Ike being a safety, I hate the idea. Not because he can't do what Ryan Clark did, but because it'd be nice to get an interception from someone other than the hairball in the secondary. You don't play a converted 35-year old safety a paycheck commensurate with a shutdown CB's pay, especially when he can't catch a football any better than my wife. |
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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 7223
Location: Honolulu
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| kethnaab wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | stillersenat wrote: | | Timmons bit on the fake at the line. See the guy standing over the RB? He should have his back turned and charging the running QB. |
Yeah, I actually didn't even demonstrate how poorly he attacked this play. We have seen him do the same exact thing on similar plays that have broken for big plays. I believe Kethnaab actually illustrated it for us earlier this year on a play. He overreacts, almost greedily for a lack of a better expression in a way it seems leaning/looking into the gap of the other ILB's responsibility.His weight is shifted and worse yet flat footed, he got cut and taken totally out of the play. |
yep. Timmons is one of the least instinctive, lowest football-IQ guys on the team. Incredible that, after 7 years, a rookie is entrusted with calling the defense instead of Timmons.
as for Ike being a safety, I hate the idea. Not because he can't do what Ryan Clark did, but because it'd be nice to get an interception from someone other than the hairball in the secondary. You don't play a converted 35-year old safety a paycheck commensurate with a shutdown CB's pay, especially when he can't catch a football any better than my wife. |
Very good points..
As for forgiving Ike as was mentioned above there was a point midway up field that Ike actually rounded away from the play and let up. Very confusing as to what his intention was, but it looked like bailing on the play to me.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 75567
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| SMashMouthMike wrote: | | Yep Yep. I thought it was Woodley's job too, and it should have been, like Turtle and others have stated. Everyone on the d bit on the inside stuff like they were all fired up and don't have that Big Nose tackle. Bad gap assignments. Is Fangupo ready to go or what is up with him? |
it has nothing to do with the nt. I didn't say it was primarily Woodley's fault. I said, he could have made the play, if he was told to go after Pryor on run plays, then, he made the mistake, if not, he played it his try wanted him to, but Woodley could have made the play easy if he had just attacked Pryor.
The Huge main mistake was made by Timmons because Timmons totally left his gap responsibility and left the backside cut back wide open for Pryor.
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