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The Opening Play
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JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: The Opening Play Reply with quote

There was a lot of debate about the first play from scrimmage against Oakland that sadly went for a record long QB TD Run...
For the record I never said Woodley was solely responsible for this play only that he did not keep contain.
Here is an image by image break down of that Play

Woodley bites on the fake and overcommits to the run inside, seeing Timmons flat footed kind of makes me nauseous.

Timmons gets caught looking inside and if he had outside responsibility he blew it. His feet and weight shift on this shot look horrible, which helps lead to the next slide.

Timmons as typical doesn't protect his feet (horrible trait for an ILB)and overcommits to a side (there is another ILB you know). The safety, the protector from the big play begins to come up.

Clark totally fooled gets caught with his pants down way up inside.

Ike appears to have a capable angle, you'd think for one of the fastest players on the team this should be ok.

Notice the Steelers defender at the top of the screen

I don't have it illustrated here but Ike did some kind of lazy unnecessary round circle that appeared like he gave up. It makes me question if he is healthy or where his attitude is ?


That Steelers player at the top of the screen is Willie Gay.. Pretty impressive effort if you look at slide 5 vs Ike's effort. Also to be slightly appreciated #98's effort to pursue.
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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Woodley, it wasn't his job on the play to track Pryor but to crash down on the RB. He refused to blame anyone, but Timmons said he was solely responsible for what happened. He had the job of playing the QB.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
According to Woodley, it wasn't his job on the play to track Pryor but to crash down on the RB. He refused to blame anyone, but Timmons said he was solely responsible for what happened. He had the job of playing the QB.


That does make sense as I reviewed the play it looked more like a run blitz but I don't feel Wood is without blame, you'd expect a Pro Bowl LB to do a better job of recognizing where the ball was and at least disrupt it somewhat even if he cant recover. Again Im not trying to dog on Wood I expect more from him, I would expect better from myself on that play at any level. However if someone does have an assignment to crash down someone has the assignment to keep contain it's not the 3-4 DE nor would it hardly ever be since essentially the 3-4 OLB is the end more than likely the ILB to that side would slide out.

My disappointment on this play lies slightly with Wood, especially Timmons and Clark and then effort wise Taylor.
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mosteelers


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea how much Oakland runs the option. But one way to combat it is take the outside contain player, in a 3-4, either crash or scrape outside. This give the quarterback an easy read but a quick read and the defense then knows who has ball. Then the defense all takes the "keep" or "give".

Ex. Woodley is designed to crash. The rest of the defense knows the QB will keep so they take him.

This is one way defenses are combating the double option. Pretty easy when there isn't a third option to cover. Especially for a pro d.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These kind of mistakes happen all the time with teams who aren't used to playing opponents who run a lot of zone read plays.

It's obvious Timmons made the mistake here, he left his gap responsibility, but, Woodley also could have made a play on Pryor. The way teams have been playing the zone read this year is to have the OLB or DE's just go straight for the Qb. That's not really Woodley's fault I guess, if the coaches didn't want him to just go after Pryor on run plays.

Beyond that, Ike and Clark should have been in position to make the tackle in the secondary, but took themselves out of the play and didn't. The mistake to stop Pryor for a short gain was Timmons' and a little bit on Woodley's fault, but still, the play should have never went for a TD because Clark and Taylor should have been able to make the tackle to prevent the TD in the secondary.

Total team D breakdown
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SMashMouthMike


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep Yep. I thought it was Woodley's job too, and it should have been, like Turtle and others have stated. Everyone on the d bit on the inside stuff like they were all fired up and don't have that Big Nose tackle. Bad gap assignments. Is Fangupo ready to go or what is up with him?
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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how Casey Hampton, even in his prime, stops that play from happening.
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SMashMouthMike


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't see how Casey Hampton, even in his prime, stops that play from happening.


Casey's presence in the middle alone doesn't directly stop that end a round. But it should limit the effectiveness of the fake up the middle or at least allow the fs and the inside backers to not bite as hard on the draw up the middle. It would just free up some tacklers from committing so hard to the a gap runs.
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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, more likely, they still read their keys the same way they did on that play and react the way they normally would. Sort of like how, even with Hampton, the LB's (Farrior, Foote, take your pick) bit on play-action in the redzone for years. They simply didn't face these kinds of rush offenses often. Even when they played mobile QB's, the read option is new. The Steelers have actually been relatively effective at stopping it given their limited opportunities.

Regardless, it's a moot hypothetical. What we do know is:
1. The coaches emphasized this all week.
2. The players still screwed up it up on the first play.

And for some reason, Troy is getting a pass here despite being completely blocked by a WR.
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byerly724


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And for some reason, Troy is getting a pass here despite being completely blocked by a WR.


To me it looks like Troy took on a lead blocker and forced Pryor to go inside where Timmons or Clark should then be unblocked to make a tackle. If that's the case he kept outside contain pretty well, just had no backside help.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing to put on Troy here , he took on his blocker and his responsibility, he did not have a good angle to pursue or catch. Troy has amazing short area quickness but his long speed is nowhere near the same.

The only reason why Ike was to fault was his effort and the fact that he had an angle and is supposed to be one of the fastest players on the field. Really the most responsible players are Timmons and Clark. Poor execution by the both of them are the reason for the TD. Not great effort or below the line instincts by Taylor and Wood contributed to the plays result and success.
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Last edited by JustPlainNasty on Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're going to blame someone, just based on looking at the images, blame Ike Taylor.

He's the only guy not tangled with someone, clear route to the QB, instead of going after him, he is back peddling, he never even crosses the hash marks until Pryor is 10 yards beyond him, his tackling route was terrible...please, someone explain that to me.

Now, having said all of that, the problem with this play was lack of discipline. These guys no better, heck, it was just a couple of seasons ago that this kind of crap happened against Tim Tebow. I thought we were beyond that, clearly not.
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timmons bit on the fake at the line. See the guy standing over the RB? He should have his back turned and charging the running QB.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
If you're going to blame someone, just based on looking at the images, blame Ike Taylor.

He's the only guy not tangled with someone, clear route to the QB, instead of going after him, he is back peddling, he never even crosses the hash marks until Pryor is 10 yards beyond him, his tackling route was terrible...please, someone explain that to me.

Now, having said all of that, the problem with this play was lack of discipline. These guys no better, heck, it was just a couple of seasons ago that this kind of crap happened against Tim Tebow. I thought we were beyond that, clearly not.


I disagree. Of course its a team blah, blah, blah, but on this play two players had responsibility Timmons & Clark and through absolutely poor technique and failure to meet those responsibilities this play broke open. Taylor's effort or lack there of just didn't keep the play from coming a TD...even if he gave the effort and pursued on the proper angle it still would have been a very big gain...probably caught somewhere around the 35.

Anyway lets move on. I just wanted to point this out.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
Timmons bit on the fake at the line. See the guy standing over the RB? He should have his back turned and charging the running QB.


Yeah, I actually didn't even demonstrate how poorly he attacked this play. We have seen him do the same exact thing on similar plays that have broken for big plays. I believe Kethnaab actually illustrated it for us earlier this year on a play. He overreacts, almost greedily for a lack of a better expression in a way it seems leaning/looking into the gap of the other ILB's responsibility.His weight is shifted and worse yet flat footed, he got cut and taken totally out of the play.
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