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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Defensive Player catch 22. Reply with quote

By now, most if not all have heard what idiot Brandon Merriweather said regarding hitting high not being possible, so he will have to start ending players seasons/careers by hitting them in the knees. A lot of the problem with the helmet to helmet rule has to do with receivers ducking, and therefore almost initiating a helmet to helmet hit. Do you think a compromise could be worked out by changing the rules, that if a receiver ducks his head, it's either not a penalty, or a 5 yard no automatic first down penalty?

Let me know what you think? Any other reasonable options?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Defensive Player catch 22. Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
By now, most if not all have heard what idiot Brandon Merriweather said regarding hitting high not being possible, so he will have to start ending players seasons/careers by hitting them in the knees. A lot of the problem with the helmet to helmet rule has to do with receivers ducking, and therefore almost initiating a helmet to helmet hit. Do you think a compromise could be worked out by changing the rules, that if a receiver ducks his head, it's either not a penalty, or a 5 yard no automatic first down penalty?

Let me know what you think? Any other reasonable options?


The reasonable option would be for the refs to stop throwing the flags. The helmet-to-helmet rule, in my opinion, should only be enforced if the intent of the defensive player is to hurt or injure the ball carrier, not when he has the intent to dislodge the football. I know that it's a slippery slope because these are "bang bang" plays, but we all know the difference between a good, clean hit which results in two guys banging heads and a guy launching himself head first into an opposing player.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I agree with Plan9, I think the NFL wants to take guessing out of the equations. Much of the same reason they got rid of being shoved out catch. The less room for interpretation for an official, the clearer - in theory - calls will be.
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DreamEater53


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NFL has to decide which they think is more important, because Merriweather is right. As much as I don't like the player and I don't like the way he said it, he is exactly right. How are you supposed to play defense anymore if you don't go low? Receivers duck their heads and lower their shoulders, there is no viable way to hit them in the torso this way.

I think plan is right. They need to be able to judge intent. And if this is still a problem, then make the call reviewable under the hood. It's either this, or risking the health of every receiver and tight end in the league on every passing play. DBs are going to follow suit and go low from now on. And why wouldn't they? I wouldn't want to be paying a fine and cost my team a huge penalty for that crap either.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamEater53 wrote:
The NFL has to decide which they think is more important, because Merriweather is right. As much as I don't like the player and I don't like the way he said it, he is exactly right. How are you supposed to play defense anymore if you don't go low? Receivers duck their heads and lower their shoulders, there is no viable way to hit them in the torso this way.


Exactly. The intent of the rule was to encourage defenders to aim for ball carriers at a range from the thighs to shoulder pads, but players have learned how to take that away by lowering their shoulders and, in turn, reducing the amount of space a defender has to make contact with; thus leaving the legs and knees as the only area to hit.

Quote:
I think plan is right. They need to be able to judge intent. And if this is still a problem, then make the call reviewable under the hood. It's either this, or risking the health of every receiver and tight end in the league on every passing play. DBs are going to follow suit and go low from now on. And why wouldn't they? I wouldn't want to be paying a fine and cost my team a huge penalty for that crap either.


What that can lead to is a complete lack of tackling because DBs will end up getting fined on nearly every play because the league will starting fining them for hits to the knees as well.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=534379&highlight=
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronnie Lott. Jack Tatum. Rodney Harrison. Brian Dawkins.

Those guys are some of the best safeties, and defensive players, of all time. Know what they all had in common? Bone jarring, concussion causing, lights out, high light reel hits.

In coverage, they weren't all that great. But their ability to smack a receiver so hard like that, worked just as good as instinctive ball swatting coverage. Such hits make receivers drop a would be catch. Such hits make receivers think twice before exposing their torso to make a leaping grab. Such hits make receivers 'lose the ball in the lights', and let it sail over their head, rather than take such a pop for trying to make the catch.

Those guys made their careers on the same hits that Brandon Meriweather is being chastised, fined and suspended for. And it must make those guys I mentioned above, sick to their stomachs. None of them would have been great players had they played in this new era of 'defenseless receivers.'

And as a fan of the NFL from way back in the early 80s, it ticks me off to see some of these hits drawing flags. It's football. If you don't want to be hit, don't lace 'em up. Everyone who does steps onto that field knowing they can be hurt, and I mean seriously hurt, on any given play. They accept that as part of their job description.

Do I want guys getting hurt? No, I mean I would much rather the stars stay healthy and let me watch them all season long. But such injuries and head trauma are part of the game. Changing the game so drastically just to save a few concussions a year is an insult to some of the best defenders to ever wear an NFL team's logo.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
Ronnie Lott. Jack Tatum. Rodney Harrison. Brian Dawkins.

Those guys are some of the best safeties, and defensive players, of all time. Know what they all had in common? Bone jarring, concussion causing, lights out, high light reel hits.

In coverage, they weren't all that great. But their ability to smack a receiver so hard like that, worked just as good as instinctive ball swatting coverage. Such hits make receivers drop a would be catch. Such hits make receivers think twice before exposing their torso to make a leaping grab. Such hits make receivers 'lose the ball in the lights', and let it sail over their head, rather than take such a pop for trying to make the catch.

Those guys made their careers on the same hits that Brandon Meriweather is being chastised, fined and suspended for. And it must make those guys I mentioned above, sick to their stomachs. None of them would have been great players had they played in this new era of 'defenseless receivers.'

And as a fan of the NFL from way back in the early 80s, it ticks me off to see some of these hits drawing flags. It's football. If you don't want to be hit, don't lace 'em up. Everyone who does steps onto that field knowing they can be hurt, and I mean seriously hurt, on any given play. They accept that as part of their job description.

Do I want guys getting hurt? No, I mean I would much rather the stars stay healthy and let me watch them all season long. But such injuries and head trauma are part of the game. Changing the game so drastically just to save a few concussions a year is an insult to some of the best defenders to ever wear an NFL team's logo.


Then why did the retired players sue the NFL, if they were fine with the results of all the hits they took?
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TheGame316


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Ronnie Lott. Jack Tatum. Rodney Harrison. Brian Dawkins.

Those guys are some of the best safeties, and defensive players, of all time. Know what they all had in common? Bone jarring, concussion causing, lights out, high light reel hits.

In coverage, they weren't all that great. But their ability to smack a receiver so hard like that, worked just as good as instinctive ball swatting coverage. Such hits make receivers drop a would be catch. Such hits make receivers think twice before exposing their torso to make a leaping grab. Such hits make receivers 'lose the ball in the lights', and let it sail over their head, rather than take such a pop for trying to make the catch.

Those guys made their careers on the same hits that Brandon Meriweather is being chastised, fined and suspended for. And it must make those guys I mentioned above, sick to their stomachs. None of them would have been great players had they played in this new era of 'defenseless receivers.'

And as a fan of the NFL from way back in the early 80s, it ticks me off to see some of these hits drawing flags. It's football. If you don't want to be hit, don't lace 'em up. Everyone who does steps onto that field knowing they can be hurt, and I mean seriously hurt, on any given play. They accept that as part of their job description.

Do I want guys getting hurt? No, I mean I would much rather the stars stay healthy and let me watch them all season long. But such injuries and head trauma are part of the game. Changing the game so drastically just to save a few concussions a year is an insult to some of the best defenders to ever wear an NFL team's logo.


Then why did the retired players sue the NFL, if they were fine with the results of all the hits they took?


Because a bunch of greasy lawyers told them they could make some fast easy cash....
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGame316 wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Ronnie Lott. Jack Tatum. Rodney Harrison. Brian Dawkins.

Those guys are some of the best safeties, and defensive players, of all time. Know what they all had in common? Bone jarring, concussion causing, lights out, high light reel hits.

In coverage, they weren't all that great. But their ability to smack a receiver so hard like that, worked just as good as instinctive ball swatting coverage. Such hits make receivers drop a would be catch. Such hits make receivers think twice before exposing their torso to make a leaping grab. Such hits make receivers 'lose the ball in the lights', and let it sail over their head, rather than take such a pop for trying to make the catch.

Those guys made their careers on the same hits that Brandon Meriweather is being chastised, fined and suspended for. And it must make those guys I mentioned above, sick to their stomachs. None of them would have been great players had they played in this new era of 'defenseless receivers.'

And as a fan of the NFL from way back in the early 80s, it ticks me off to see some of these hits drawing flags. It's football. If you don't want to be hit, don't lace 'em up. Everyone who does steps onto that field knowing they can be hurt, and I mean seriously hurt, on any given play. They accept that as part of their job description.

Do I want guys getting hurt? No, I mean I would much rather the stars stay healthy and let me watch them all season long. But such injuries and head trauma are part of the game. Changing the game so drastically just to save a few concussions a year is an insult to some of the best defenders to ever wear an NFL team's logo.


Then why did the retired players sue the NFL, if they were fine with the results of all the hits they took?


Because a bunch of greasy lawyers told them they could make some fast easy cash....


Or because there were serious, long term impacts from being hit in the head that much. Just ask Jim McMahon. He suffers from depression and massive memory loss from his playing days due to the brain damage he sustained.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
TheGame316 wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Ronnie Lott. Jack Tatum. Rodney Harrison. Brian Dawkins.

Those guys are some of the best safeties, and defensive players, of all time. Know what they all had in common? Bone jarring, concussion causing, lights out, high light reel hits.

In coverage, they weren't all that great. But their ability to smack a receiver so hard like that, worked just as good as instinctive ball swatting coverage. Such hits make receivers drop a would be catch. Such hits make receivers think twice before exposing their torso to make a leaping grab. Such hits make receivers 'lose the ball in the lights', and let it sail over their head, rather than take such a pop for trying to make the catch.

Those guys made their careers on the same hits that Brandon Meriweather is being chastised, fined and suspended for. And it must make those guys I mentioned above, sick to their stomachs. None of them would have been great players had they played in this new era of 'defenseless receivers.'

And as a fan of the NFL from way back in the early 80s, it ticks me off to see some of these hits drawing flags. It's football. If you don't want to be hit, don't lace 'em up. Everyone who does steps onto that field knowing they can be hurt, and I mean seriously hurt, on any given play. They accept that as part of their job description.

Do I want guys getting hurt? No, I mean I would much rather the stars stay healthy and let me watch them all season long. But such injuries and head trauma are part of the game. Changing the game so drastically just to save a few concussions a year is an insult to some of the best defenders to ever wear an NFL team's logo.


Then why did the retired players sue the NFL, if they were fine with the results of all the hits they took?


Because a bunch of greasy lawyers told them they could make some fast easy cash....


Or because there were serious, long term impacts from being hit in the head that much. Just ask Jim McMahon. He suffers from depression and massive memory loss from his playing days due to the brain damage he sustained.


I would think Aikman and Steve Young have to be terrified of what might happen to them in the next decade. Honestly, it doesn't seem most of the time that the helmet to helmet hits are what causes most of the concussions, it's usually the head smacking the turf.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TheGame316 wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Ronnie Lott. Jack Tatum. Rodney Harrison. Brian Dawkins.

Those guys are some of the best safeties, and defensive players, of all time. Know what they all had in common? Bone jarring, concussion causing, lights out, high light reel hits.

In coverage, they weren't all that great. But their ability to smack a receiver so hard like that, worked just as good as instinctive ball swatting coverage. Such hits make receivers drop a would be catch. Such hits make receivers think twice before exposing their torso to make a leaping grab. Such hits make receivers 'lose the ball in the lights', and let it sail over their head, rather than take such a pop for trying to make the catch.

Those guys made their careers on the same hits that Brandon Meriweather is being chastised, fined and suspended for. And it must make those guys I mentioned above, sick to their stomachs. None of them would have been great players had they played in this new era of 'defenseless receivers.'

And as a fan of the NFL from way back in the early 80s, it ticks me off to see some of these hits drawing flags. It's football. If you don't want to be hit, don't lace 'em up. Everyone who does steps onto that field knowing they can be hurt, and I mean seriously hurt, on any given play. They accept that as part of their job description.

Do I want guys getting hurt? No, I mean I would much rather the stars stay healthy and let me watch them all season long. But such injuries and head trauma are part of the game. Changing the game so drastically just to save a few concussions a year is an insult to some of the best defenders to ever wear an NFL team's logo.


Then why did the retired players sue the NFL, if they were fine with the results of all the hits they took?


Because a bunch of greasy lawyers told them they could make some fast easy cash....


Or because there were serious, long term impacts from being hit in the head that much. Just ask Jim McMahon. He suffers from depression and massive memory loss from his playing days due to the brain damage he sustained.


I would think Aikman and Steve Young have to be terrified of what might happen to them in the next decade. Honestly, it doesn't seem most of the time that the helmet to helmet hits are what causes most of the concussions, it's usually the head smacking the turf.


That's exactly right. The head has nowhere to go when the ground is between it and the area where it wants to move, thus causing all of the trauma to be absorbed by the head rather than have the energy work it's way through (and out of) the body. Given the number of concussions both Aikman and Young sustained over their careers, they may have some serious mental health issues later in life.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
TheGame316 wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Ronnie Lott. Jack Tatum. Rodney Harrison. Brian Dawkins.

Those guys are some of the best safeties, and defensive players, of all time. Know what they all had in common? Bone jarring, concussion causing, lights out, high light reel hits.

In coverage, they weren't all that great. But their ability to smack a receiver so hard like that, worked just as good as instinctive ball swatting coverage. Such hits make receivers drop a would be catch. Such hits make receivers think twice before exposing their torso to make a leaping grab. Such hits make receivers 'lose the ball in the lights', and let it sail over their head, rather than take such a pop for trying to make the catch.

Those guys made their careers on the same hits that Brandon Meriweather is being chastised, fined and suspended for. And it must make those guys I mentioned above, sick to their stomachs. None of them would have been great players had they played in this new era of 'defenseless receivers.'

And as a fan of the NFL from way back in the early 80s, it ticks me off to see some of these hits drawing flags. It's football. If you don't want to be hit, don't lace 'em up. Everyone who does steps onto that field knowing they can be hurt, and I mean seriously hurt, on any given play. They accept that as part of their job description.

Do I want guys getting hurt? No, I mean I would much rather the stars stay healthy and let me watch them all season long. But such injuries and head trauma are part of the game. Changing the game so drastically just to save a few concussions a year is an insult to some of the best defenders to ever wear an NFL team's logo.


Then why did the retired players sue the NFL, if they were fine with the results of all the hits they took?


Because a bunch of greasy lawyers told them they could make some fast easy cash....


Or because there were serious, long term impacts from being hit in the head that much. Just ask Jim McMahon. He suffers from depression and massive memory loss from his playing days due to the brain damage he sustained.


I would say this, for sure.

Generaldissaray, I'm not saying the hits aren't dangerous or risking long term disability or injury. I'm saying, the players knew that when they suited up. They accepted that. It's like the mechanic who loses a finger on the the engine - they accept that such things can happen in their line of work.

But, also understand, it isn't that those players sued the NFL because their job was dangerous or because they regret how they played, or want the game to be 'softer.' They sued because the NFL wasn't ponying up enough money equivalent to how much they sacrificed for the NFL to make so much money off of their sacrifice. Their benefits SUCKED, and because of those disabilities from playing, they needed better benefits. That is what they sued for.

And as a result, the NFL decided to cover all their bases and make the game 'safer' - but in the backlash from that, they have erased a big draw from the game: the hits. And made it so we will never see the players who play defense like Jack Tatum, Ronnie Lott, Rodney Harrison etc ever again. Such players would be in debt from playing the game in that manner.
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Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Ronnie Lott. Jack Tatum. Rodney Harrison. Brian Dawkins.

Those guys are some of the best safeties, and defensive players, of all time. Know what they all had in common? Bone jarring, concussion causing, lights out, high light reel hits.

In coverage, they weren't all that great. But their ability to smack a receiver so hard like that, worked just as good as instinctive ball swatting coverage. Such hits make receivers drop a would be catch. Such hits make receivers think twice before exposing their torso to make a leaping grab. Such hits make receivers 'lose the ball in the lights', and let it sail over their head, rather than take such a pop for trying to make the catch.

Those guys made their careers on the same hits that Brandon Meriweather is being chastised, fined and suspended for. And it must make those guys I mentioned above, sick to their stomachs. None of them would have been great players had they played in this new era of 'defenseless receivers.'

And as a fan of the NFL from way back in the early 80s, it ticks me off to see some of these hits drawing flags. It's football. If you don't want to be hit, don't lace 'em up. Everyone who does steps onto that field knowing they can be hurt, and I mean seriously hurt, on any given play. They accept that as part of their job description.

Do I want guys getting hurt? No, I mean I would much rather the stars stay healthy and let me watch them all season long. But such injuries and head trauma are part of the game. Changing the game so drastically just to save a few concussions a year is an insult to some of the best defenders to ever wear an NFL team's logo.


Then why did the retired players sue the NFL, if they were fine with the results of all the hits they took?


They sued because their benefits, as retired employees, were god awful for the sacrifices they made to make the NFL a billion dollar corporation.

If you batter yourself for your job, and then retire.. and in a decade or two, struggle to walk, or see, whatever...wouldn't you be ticked if the company you put all that on the line for, wasn't willing to pay you retirement benefits equal to the sacrifice you made? That was the players' dilemma. Had nothing to do with the hits. Only the benefits and the money.

When these players from the 70s retired, they were making a fraction of what players make today. And the retirement stuff, there was practically none of that severance stuff you'd get at any other job you retire from. And they felt they deserved such severances and back pay to take care of their medical bills - and personally, I feel they did too. So, they sued.
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GeneralDissaray


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TheGame316 wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Ronnie Lott. Jack Tatum. Rodney Harrison. Brian Dawkins.

Those guys are some of the best safeties, and defensive players, of all time. Know what they all had in common? Bone jarring, concussion causing, lights out, high light reel hits.

In coverage, they weren't all that great. But their ability to smack a receiver so hard like that, worked just as good as instinctive ball swatting coverage. Such hits make receivers drop a would be catch. Such hits make receivers think twice before exposing their torso to make a leaping grab. Such hits make receivers 'lose the ball in the lights', and let it sail over their head, rather than take such a pop for trying to make the catch.

Those guys made their careers on the same hits that Brandon Meriweather is being chastised, fined and suspended for. And it must make those guys I mentioned above, sick to their stomachs. None of them would have been great players had they played in this new era of 'defenseless receivers.'

And as a fan of the NFL from way back in the early 80s, it ticks me off to see some of these hits drawing flags. It's football. If you don't want to be hit, don't lace 'em up. Everyone who does steps onto that field knowing they can be hurt, and I mean seriously hurt, on any given play. They accept that as part of their job description.

Do I want guys getting hurt? No, I mean I would much rather the stars stay healthy and let me watch them all season long. But such injuries and head trauma are part of the game. Changing the game so drastically just to save a few concussions a year is an insult to some of the best defenders to ever wear an NFL team's logo.


Then why did the retired players sue the NFL, if they were fine with the results of all the hits they took?


Because a bunch of greasy lawyers told them they could make some fast easy cash....


Or because there were serious, long term impacts from being hit in the head that much. Just ask Jim McMahon. He suffers from depression and massive memory loss from his playing days due to the brain damage he sustained.


I would say this, for sure.

Generaldissaray, I'm not saying the hits aren't dangerous or risking long term disability or injury. I'm saying, the players knew that when they suited up. They accepted that. It's like the mechanic who loses a finger on the the engine - they accept that such things can happen in their line of work.

But, also understand, it isn't that those players sued the NFL because their job was dangerous or because they regret how they played, or want the game to be 'softer.' They sued because the NFL wasn't ponying up enough money equivalent to how much they sacrificed for the NFL to make so much money off of their sacrifice. Their benefits SUCKED, and because of those disabilities from playing, they needed better benefits. That is what they sued for.

And as a result, the NFL decided to cover all their bases and make the game 'safer' - but in the backlash from that, they have erased a big draw from the game: the hits. And made it so we will never see the players who play defense like Jack Tatum, Ronnie Lott, Rodney Harrison etc ever again. Such players would be in debt from playing the game in that manner.


I don't think until recently, players understood that repeated concussions can destroy their life. I would think most would assume that they will have headaches and some memory loss after their careers are done, but not Dimensia, severe depression, and loss of motor skills.
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