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Jarvis Jones benched
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9737
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rivers wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
I hated the pick.

Had to keep from swearing at my (then) 11-year old daughter's clarinet recital. I tried drinking the Kool-Aid, but unfortunately, what we're seeing now is exactly what we saw in Georgia.


Who did you want instead? If worilds leaves , could you see Mack or KVN3 being drafted by the steelers?


well, I know I'm going to throw something at a wall when we pass on Anthony Barr

I could see us snapping up Khalil Mack in the 2nd. I like Kyle Van Noy but I'm not sure we go after him.
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The Curtain


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JJ has a motor. Which is more than I can say for anyone else I've seen in our front seven this year.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 12064
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
3rivers wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
I hated the pick.

Had to keep from swearing at my (then) 11-year old daughter's clarinet recital. I tried drinking the Kool-Aid, but unfortunately, what we're seeing now is exactly what we saw in Georgia.


Who did you want instead? If worilds leaves , could you see Mack or KVN3 being drafted by the steelers?


well, I know I'm going to throw something at a wall when we pass on Anthony Barr

I could see us snapping up Khalil Mack in the 2nd. I like Kyle Van Noy but I'm not sure we go after him.


Honestly, i don't think Mack makes it out of the first round
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steelcurtain29 wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
yep.

To be a truly effective pass rusher, you gotta have 1 (or preferably more) of 3 traits:

1. Speed/first step
2. Strength/leverage
3. Length

as you said, Jones is 0-3


Can't agree with this one.


I can. It worried me on the pick that he has no explosiveness. But he is a rookie so I'll wait a year.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
3rivers wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
I hated the pick.

Had to keep from swearing at my (then) 11-year old daughter's clarinet recital. I tried drinking the Kool-Aid, but unfortunately, what we're seeing now is exactly what we saw in Georgia.


Who did you want instead? If worilds leaves , could you see Mack or KVN3 being drafted by the steelers?


well, I know I'm going to throw something at a wall when we pass on Anthony Barr

I could see us snapping up Khalil Mack in the 2nd. I like Kyle Van Noy but I'm not sure we go after him.


They will not take a OLB high in the draft.

IMHO, the Steelers need to look at the top players in the small schools. Where the only knock is the competition. THat being said. Larry Webster Bloomsburg. Could be gotten in the 6th round. Length 6'6 Explosive? Check.
Strength? Needs year in the weight room. Has the frame.
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like Jones is missing practice related detailed stuff. Same thing happened to Mendy. You show up not knowing what's going on, you get a seat.

Standard Tomlin policy IMO.

Nothing big unless Jones decides he's above Tomlin's system.
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Gatoradus


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is anyone really surprised?

Kethnaab is right, Jarvis Jones never had speed to begin with. He NEVER showed the explosiveness at Georgia- those quick plays are solely based on the scheme itself, Jarvis Jones is allowed to make plays because of the scheme they ran.

It won't be long until Steelers FO realize Le'Veon Bell is having same problem.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly must say, I think Jarvis Jones was a pick of "no other choice". I 100% believe that had New Orleans not drafted Kenny Vaccaro, even with Jarvis on the board, the Steelers would've drafted Vaccaro and he would be starting right now at FS. I do NOT think that would've changed the select of Shamarko Thomas.

I genuinely believe they felt Jarvis was the BPA, too valuable to trade back from, but not the first guy on their board, not the guy they had hoped was there.

If Jones fails to pan out..when you really look at our recent drafts..

Hood, Mendenhall, Jarvis.. we're already years behind if Jones doesn't pan out. We can't keep missing picks like this.
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You "naysayers" out there crack me up. I mean, who was the last Steeler Rookie OLB to start an NFL game by the 3rd week of the season? Woodley? nope. Worilds? nope. I mean, c'mon, the first week back from a concussion, he doesn't play well, and gets demoted. It's Frickin' week 8.

So now that he gets benched, everyone's coming out of the "woodwork" saying "I told ya so!" We all need to give the dude a fair shot. If he doesn't pan out after 3 years (like Worilds), then I'll happily jump aboard the "he stinks and was a mistake" bandwagon, but until then, not a single person can claim they were "right" or "wrong" about their like or dislike of the pick...I was thrilled with the selection, of course, but just because he beat out Worilds, I certainly wasn't claiming "yep, I was right, he was the right pick".

I'm just saying, IMO, we need temper our judgments for a bit.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the point of benching him though? Why not leave him out there and let him learn? What do we gain by winning now? Unless we win EVERY GAME for the rest of the season and finish 11-5, we have no shot at the playoffs, because it'd require us to win the division, which we're not going to do. We're out of the runnning for a Wild Card at this point because we can't seem to put a string of wins together.

The Rookies, the Young talent, that's who SHOULD be playing right now. Find out what we really have on this team, get rid of the guys that aren'thelping us. Even if that means we go into next season with an insane amount of UDFA's on the 53 man roster.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
Is anyone really surprised?

Kethnaab is right, Jarvis Jones never had speed to begin with. He NEVER showed the explosiveness at Georgia- those quick plays are solely based on the scheme itself, Jarvis Jones is allowed to make plays because of the scheme they ran.

It won't be long until Steelers FO realize Le'Veon Bell is having same problem.


This is complete hogwash.

If you want to claim he isnt fast, thats fine...saying he was never explosive and just a product of the system is just downright laughable.
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The Curtain


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't realize a rookie pass rusher was a bust after less than half a season where he started a couple of times. There's no reason to think the sky is falling. Just because he's not DROTY doesn't mean he's no good.
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jcm412


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Gatoradus wrote:
Is anyone really surprised?

Kethnaab is right, Jarvis Jones never had speed to begin with. He NEVER showed the explosiveness at Georgia- those quick plays are solely based on the scheme itself, Jarvis Jones is allowed to make plays because of the scheme they ran.

It won't be long until Steelers FO realize Le'Veon Bell is having same problem.


This is complete hogwash.

If you want to claim he isnt fast, thats fine...saying he was never explosive and just a product of the system is just downright laughable.


I have to agree Gatoradus to an extent. The defense was designed around him and he was allowed to free lance a bit. IMO he is neither fast nor explosive. If anything he is quick and slippery. Most of is play come from hustle and a high motor.

He doesn't have the bend, strength, or explosion to be a top pash rusher. He can be a good player at OLB , but not great.
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JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say I'm not on the bandwagon with this one, when am I ever really...

Jones main deficiency is strength and leverage. His timed speed means nothing when a guy is a constantly around the ball. He is a natural playmaker with instincts that make up for any measured speed. Are there concerns of course or he wouldn't have dropped to the spot we got him at.

While Anthony Barr is a great athlete and he will deserve to go high, concerns that at how the majority of his plays are unimpeded and when he is blocked his effectiveness is about a 1/4 of that. He's not going to be unabated to the QB half as much in the pros.

Kyle Van Noy does a much better job pushing the pocket through the blocker. Not saying Van Noy deserves to go higher but he definitely flys far below the radar as compared to Barr.

I wouldn't get all in a tizzy over a rookie that has shown promise. I would imagine he is pressing to make a difference on a team that needs help from more than one position. The coaching staff is looking for excuses and for the first time in my Tomlin experience my concern is the finger is not pointing in the right direction.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jcm412 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Gatoradus wrote:
Is anyone really surprised?

Kethnaab is right, Jarvis Jones never had speed to begin with. He NEVER showed the explosiveness at Georgia- those quick plays are solely based on the scheme itself, Jarvis Jones is allowed to make plays because of the scheme they ran.

It won't be long until Steelers FO realize Le'Veon Bell is having same problem.


This is complete hogwash.

If you want to claim he isnt fast, thats fine...saying he was never explosive and just a product of the system is just downright laughable.


I have to agree Gatoradus to an extent. The defense was designed around him and he was allowed to free lance a bit. IMO he is neither fast nor explosive. If anything he is quick and slippery. Most of is play come from hustle and a high motor.

He doesn't have the bend, strength, or explosion to be a top pash rusher. He can be a good player at OLB , but not great.


The defense was designed around him in 2011, when he was a completely unproven player? No, it wasnt....and he still had 13 sacks and 20 TFLs....so I dont buy that reasoning one bit.

I have no issue with people not being big on Jones, but some of the reasoning makes no sense to me. Even if you want to claim he benefited from the defense, it doesnt change the fact that he constantly made splash plays. To act like those plays were merely the result of gameplanning is just ridiculous. And no explosion? I can agree he doesnt have the top end explosion, but these comments about him not being explosive at all boggle my mind.

I am not going to argue it too much since everyone has their opinions set in already, but some of these knocks against him make little sense.

Its his rookie year in a complicated offense, and I think everyone was pretty aware he was going to need some time. I personally didnt expect him to have a huge impact this year....I thought he would be a situational guy behind Worlids most of the year and maybe take over by the end.

People get too hung up on physical shortcomings. Ill take a guy with good instincts, high motor and just a good football player over a great athlete that plays football.

Its not easy to find a player that fits both molds.
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