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blitzburgh9256


Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Akron, IA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:22 pm    Post subject: Keys for the future Reply with quote

After the disappointing loss yesterday I wanted to ask, who are the top 5 young players (7 years or younger) on both sides of the ball moving forward. Guys that will be here for the long haul and players that we can build around. Also the top need for each unit.

In order

Offense
1. Antonio Brown
2. LeVeon Bell
3. David DeCastro
4. Maurkice Pouncey
5. Derek Moye

Defense
1. Timmons
2. Woodley
3. Jarvis Jones
4. Cortez Allen
5. Shark Thomas

Top need

Offense - OT

Defense - NT
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49299
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Keys for the future Reply with quote

Offense
1. Antonio Brown
2. LeVeon Bell
3. David DeCastro

At this point, those are the only 3 young players I really have much hope in.

Pouncey is good but Im not sold on him and hope we dont break the bank on him.

Now, I do think Wheaton will be a solid player and guys like Moye, Adams and even Pouncey are pretty good....but dont think they will ever be keys to the offense.

We need alot of help on offense long term.

And if you factor in Ben's age...QB will be a need in a few years.

Defense
1. Timmons
2. Cam Heyward
3. Jarvis Jones
4. Cortez Allen or Vince Williams
5. Shark Thomas

I have faith in those guys long term.

For some reason, I think Woodley will be gone in 2-3 years.

Cam Heyward has been good and will be even better once he gets a better NT next to him.

Jones has shown enough to make me optimistic long term.

Allen....more wishful thinking than anything. Williams IMO could go either way....but I think he has more upside than Allen.

Thomas IMO will be a nice replacement for Troy.

Top need

Offense - LT or game changing offensive weapon

Defense - Pass rusher, NT or CB.

Too hard to pick just one with all the needs we have.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheaton should definitely be on these lists, I know its early but..
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
Wheaton should definitely be on these lists, I know its early but..



Hard to put a player on a list when they havent shown anything in a meaningful game.

Maybe if it were an elite potential or talent, but at this point, for all we know, could be another Manny Sanders type player, and I wouldnt have ever put him on a list like this.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 2227
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about coaching changes or philosophy/scheme changes? How would you see the future there?
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Keys for the future Reply with quote

blitzburgh9256 wrote:
After the disappointing loss yesterday I wanted to ask, who are the top 5 young players (7 years or younger) on both sides of the ball moving forward. Guys that will be here for the long haul and players that we can build around. Also the top need for each unit.

In order

Offense

1. Antonio Brown
2. LeVeon Bell
3. David DeCastro
4. Maurkice Pouncey
5. Emmanuel Sanders

Defense

1. Timmons
2. Woodley
3. Jarvis Jones
4. Cortez Allen
5. Shark Thomas

Top need

Offense - OT

Defense - NT
I agree with your list, except I'd have Emmanuel a Sanders in there instead of a guy like Moye who's peak is a #3 wr.

On D, I'd say the top need is going to be a CB. I think Ike Taylor will be gone after this year and they'll get someone in round 2 to replace him. I agree that McLendon hasn't been great, but it's his first year as a starting NT in the nfl.

I think what you'll see is the team draft a NT in the mid rounds to develop, but stick with McLendon as the starters for one more season.
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JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 7098
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
Wheaton should definitely be on these lists, I know its early but..



Hard to put a player on a list when they havent shown anything in a meaningful game.

Maybe if it were an elite potential or talent, but at this point, for all we know, could be another Manny Sanders type player, and I wouldnt have ever put him on a list like this.


The original list includes Derrick Moye?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
Wheaton should definitely be on these lists, I know its early but..



Hard to put a player on a list when they havent shown anything in a meaningful game.

Maybe if it were an elite potential or talent, but at this point, for all we know, could be another Manny Sanders type player, and I wouldnt have ever put him on a list like this.


The original list includes Derrick Moye?
i was thinking the same thing. Instead of Moye, you either have to have Sanders or Wheaton. One of them will be the long term starter opposite Brown
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
Wheaton should definitely be on these lists, I know its early but..



Hard to put a player on a list when they havent shown anything in a meaningful game.

Maybe if it were an elite potential or talent, but at this point, for all we know, could be another Manny Sanders type player, and I wouldnt have ever put him on a list like this.


The original list includes Derrick Moye?


Not my list.

But at this point both are just as proven/unproven.

Wheaton is absolutely a better talent, though.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
Wheaton should definitely be on these lists, I know its early but..



Hard to put a player on a list when they havent shown anything in a meaningful game.

Maybe if it were an elite potential or talent, but at this point, for all we know, could be another Manny Sanders type player, and I wouldnt have ever put him on a list like this.


The original list includes Derrick Moye?
i was thinking the same thing. Instead of Moye, you either have to have Sanders or Wheaton. One of them will be the long term starter opposite Brown


Sanders already has one foot out the door. He isnt worth paying to keep around.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
Wheaton should definitely be on these lists, I know its early but..



Hard to put a player on a list when they havent shown anything in a meaningful game.

Maybe if it were an elite potential or talent, but at this point, for all we know, could be another Manny Sanders type player, and I wouldnt have ever put him on a list like this.


The original list includes Derrick Moye?
i was thinking the same thing. Instead of Moye, you either have to have Sanders or Wheaton. One of them will be the long term starter opposite Brown


Sanders already has one foot out the door. He isnt worth paying to keep around.
do you have the Rooney and Colbert's #?

I see no reason why the team wouldn't give him a good deal to stay and no reason why they wouldn't match an offer, as long as it's not something outlandish.

Why create a hole? The team has 3 young Wrs to build with for the future.

Brown, Sanders and Wheaton

They may even have the 4 and 5 if Moye and a guy like Justin Brown works out.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
Wheaton should definitely be on these lists, I know its early but..



Hard to put a player on a list when they havent shown anything in a meaningful game.

Maybe if it were an elite potential or talent, but at this point, for all we know, could be another Manny Sanders type player, and I wouldnt have ever put him on a list like this.


The original list includes Derrick Moye?
i was thinking the same thing. Instead of Moye, you either have to have Sanders or Wheaton. One of them will be the long term starter opposite Brown


Sanders already has one foot out the door. He isnt worth paying to keep around.
do you have the Rooney and Colbert's #?

I see no reason why the team wouldn't give him a good deal to stay and no reason why they wouldn't match an offer, as long as it's not something outlandish.

Why create a hole? The team has 3 young Wrs to build with for the future.

Brown, Sanders and Wheaton

They may even have the 4 and 5 if Moye and a guy like Justin Brown works out.


No....but I do have a mind of my own. You should try it sometime.

They wouldnt give him a "good" deal because he simply isnt that "good". Sanders has been average at best this seasons and at times, downright terrible. I remember he was awful a few weeks ago, and he made one big play and you were mocking people for calling him out. You did the same garbage for Ryan Clark after he made an easy INT, despite playing sub par for the most part.

Sanders will test FA and will likely get a decent contract. Not huge, but more than we should pay...probably around $4 mil a year from a WR desperate team like the Pats.

Sanders simply isnt that good, and wont be hard to replace. Cotchery has been better than Sanders this year.

On top of that, Sanders doesnt offer much different from what Brown offers, and we can replace that with Wheaton. We need a better complimentary receiver to Brown...not just more of the same.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have to be so rude?

I have a mind and I think it's quite foolish to create an unnecessary hole on a team that has many. It's frankly stupid to let a wr go who's 26, in his first year as a starter, dealing with an inconsistent offense and still probably going to put up more than 60 catches, more than 900 yds and 4 or 5 tds.

I'm sure you'd rather have Cotchery starting since he's always been 'your boy'and always been below average.
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chrisororke


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 497
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Offense

1) Pouncey
2) Bell
3) AB -- granted I would trade him for a 1st. WRs are easily replaceable and he's not a can't touch guy. WRs are a dime a dozen I'll say it til it sticks. He's not elite, he's just the best WE HAVE. Don't get caught up in the going to break the Steelers all-time catches in a season. I'd say over half his catches are long handoffs. It's a little different than Calvin Johnson catching 130 balls or like Julio Jones who was on pace for a better year than Calvin or anyone else
4) Wheaton -- he will be the better than Sanders, worse than AB
5) DD
6) Beachum? He should start over Foster

Sanders sucks. He's not dependable whatsoever. I don't mind Dwyer but Bell covers anything he can bring to the table

Defense

1) Timmons -- I'd trade him for a 1st as well. He's probably the best player on a team that's going nowhere. Basically, I'd trade just about everybody but Pouncey, Bell, Jarvis, and the Lombardi trophies
2) Heyward
3) Shark
4) Jarvis -- I like Jarvis in the middle where the action is. He and Spence could be solid there that's why I'd take a 1st and 11M off the books for Timmons. I like Andrew Jackson LB WKU as well
5) Spence -- I think he can come back and defy the odds

Woodley plays half the game (effort). And when he does play he makes 1/2 the plays he should. His sack numbers make him more valuable trade bait. He's not consistent in play or effort

Note: none of the trades will happen it is simply my opinion on how to stop the downward momentum. 2015 is a pretty solid UFA class: Von (who's in trouble with DEN), Aldon (who's in trouble with SF), Sherman (tough for them to afford), Earl Thomas (can't keep them both), Marcell Dareus (a UFA in '15 if they trigger his option in March, otherwise UFA this year), Mike Pouncey. Basically the 2011 draft class would be UFA. JJ Watt, PP, Robert Quinn, etc. Some, not all will get deals

Then there's like Roddy White, Ryan Mathews, Louis Delmas

A lot better guys than the ridiculous salaries we're paying for mediocre production.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Do you have to be so rude?

I have a mind and I think it's quite foolish to create an unnecessary hole on a team that has many. It's frankly stupid to let a wr go who's 26, in his first year as a starter, dealing with an inconsistent offense and still probably going to put up more than 60 catches, more than 900 yds and 4 or 5 tds.

I'm sure you'd rather have Cotchery starting since he's always been 'your boy'and always been below average.


You ask me a clearly condescending question and you expect me to be polite? Really?

You cant retain every player, and Sanders is expendable. I dont really see it as much of a hole since Cotchery is just as good and we have Wheaton up and coming....not to menion we can pick someone else up that can fill that void. Sanders doenst offer much....so its not much of a void he leaves behind.

Look beyond stats for once. You lean on them like a crutch. Sanders hasnt been any better than average.....at any point in his career. I had very high hopes for him but he simply isnt that good. I am not saying he is terrible, but he is very replaceable.

And since when has Cotchery always been my boy? I like him as depth, but at no point has he ever been "my boy".

And you say Cotchery has always been below average...as what? Maybe as a starter, but as a backup, he is MUCH better than below average. He is actually one of the best number 4s in the league...better than many number 3s, and Id even take him over a few teams number 2s.

Oh...and if Cotch is below average, what does that say about Sanders, who Cotch has outplayed thus far this year?
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