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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
simonwayne wrote:
Honestly I have thought the same thing about our whole defense being on the pro bowl. Our defense has a certain level of synergy right now where role players like Jordan/Lewis/DeVito are playing above their level IMO and through 8 weeks you could make a legit argument for nearly every defensive starter of ours to be in the pro bowl.

I hope Marcus Cooper gets in but I know that'll never happen with the little attention he has gotten even though he's 100% deserving of it as far as I'm concerned.


Marcus Cooper hasn't played better than Talib, Flowers, Vontae Davis, Joe Haden, Antonio Cromartie, Alteraun Verner By FAR. I don't know how many Cb's get chosen for the pro bowl, but he is definitely not better than those guys. Guaranteed. Even if there is room for more cbs after those guys, a guy like Jonathan Joseph will get taken just because of his name.


Cromartie has played poorly this season. Verner gets the benefit of exclusively playing #2s, and even Titans fans have been pointing that out (as many think more highly of McCourty.) Haden started really strong, but has slowed down a little as of late (2 TDs the past 2 weeks.) Flowers has done well, but the injury means he hasn't done quite enough to make up for the Dallas game.

Personally, I'd put in Talib, Davis, and Cooper. If there's a 4th (I can't remember if there is) then I'd do Haden or McCourty.
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Mikek163


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
simonwayne wrote:
Honestly I have thought the same thing about our whole defense being on the pro bowl. Our defense has a certain level of synergy right now where role players like Jordan/Lewis/DeVito are playing above their level IMO and through 8 weeks you could make a legit argument for nearly every defensive starter of ours to be in the pro bowl.

I hope Marcus Cooper gets in but I know that'll never happen with the little attention he has gotten even though he's 100% deserving of it as far as I'm concerned.


Marcus Cooper hasn't played better than Talib, Flowers, Vontae Davis, Joe Haden, Antonio Cromartie, Alteraun Verner By FAR. I don't know how many Cb's get chosen for the pro bowl, but he is definitely not better than those guys. Guaranteed. Even if there is room for more cbs after those guys, a guy like Jonathan Joseph will get taken just because of his name.


Cromartie has played poorly this season. Verner gets the benefit of exclusively playing #2s, and even Titans fans have been pointing that out (as many think more highly of McCourty.) Haden started really strong, but has slowed down a little as of late (2 TDs the past 2 weeks.) Flowers has done well, but the injury means he hasn't done quite enough to make up for the Dallas game.

Personally, I'd put in Talib, Davis, and Cooper. If there's a 4th (I can't remember if there is) then I'd do Haden or McCourty.


Cromartie has played poor? We must be watching completely different games then? (I hope you're not basing it off of last weeks performance vs the Bengals?) Also, you cannot give me a legit excuse that Verner is playing #2 Wrs when Cooper is playing 2-3-4s himself. That isn't a valid excuse on any level. Haden is a beast, I can't even comment on that besides what I have already said.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:

Cromartie has played poor? We must be watching completely different games then? (I hope you're not basing it off of last weeks performance vs the Bengals?) Also, you cannot give me a legit excuse that Verner is playing #2 Wrs when Cooper is playing 2-3-4s himself. That isn't a valid excuse on any level. Haden is a beast, I can't even comment on that besides what I have already said.


Cromartie has had more poor outings than good ones this year. I didn't catch the Cincy game, so that's not what I'm basing it on. I'm basing it on Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Tennessee, and Tampa, all games he struggled in. The guy has allowed more yards and TDs than any other corner either of us have mentioned, in addition to making basically no plays on the ball (0 picks, 1 PD.) The guy has struggled. Cooper does not play 2s, 3s, or 4s. You're not paying any attention to our defensive gameplan if you think that's his role. Cooper plays 1s (or, RWRs, in any case), he just doesn't do it full-time. Since Cooper played against the Giants, he has seen 81% of our snaps, almost exclusively at LCB. The same position previously played by Flowers, and played by Richard Sherman, Darrelle Revis, Joe Haden, and, you know, every other great CB.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:

Cromartie has played poor? We must be watching completely different games then? (I hope you're not basing it off of last weeks performance vs the Bengals?) Also, you cannot give me a legit excuse that Verner is playing #2 Wrs when Cooper is playing 2-3-4s himself. That isn't a valid excuse on any level. Haden is a beast, I can't even comment on that besides what I have already said.


Cromartie has had more poor outings than good ones this year. I didn't catch the Cincy game, so that's not what I'm basing it on. I'm basing it on Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Tennessee, and Tampa, all games he struggled in. The guy has allowed more yards and TDs than any other corner either of us have mentioned, in addition to making basically no plays on the ball (0 picks, 1 PD.) The guy has struggled. Cooper does not play 2s, 3s, or 4s. You're not paying any attention to our defensive gameplan if you think that's his role. Cooper plays 1s (or, RWRs, in any case), he just doesn't do it full-time. Since Cooper played against the Giants, he has seen 81% of our snaps, almost exclusively at LCB. The same position previously played by Flowers, and played by Richard Sherman, Darrelle Revis, Joe Haden, and, you know, every other great CB.


http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/10/antonio_cromartie_dee_milliner_among_the_worst_ranked_cornerbacks_in_the_nfl.html

I stand corrected on Cromartie. With Marcus Cooper though last game he seemed to be going against Greg Little / Bess more than Gordon I thought. Don't get me wrong Cooper has played fantastic, I love the kid. But pro bowl? I just dont know.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:

Cromartie has played poor? We must be watching completely different games then? (I hope you're not basing it off of last weeks performance vs the Bengals?) Also, you cannot give me a legit excuse that Verner is playing #2 Wrs when Cooper is playing 2-3-4s himself. That isn't a valid excuse on any level. Haden is a beast, I can't even comment on that besides what I have already said.


Cromartie has had more poor outings than good ones this year. I didn't catch the Cincy game, so that's not what I'm basing it on. I'm basing it on Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Tennessee, and Tampa, all games he struggled in. The guy has allowed more yards and TDs than any other corner either of us have mentioned, in addition to making basically no plays on the ball (0 picks, 1 PD.) The guy has struggled. Cooper does not play 2s, 3s, or 4s. You're not paying any attention to our defensive gameplan if you think that's his role. Cooper plays 1s (or, RWRs, in any case), he just doesn't do it full-time. Since Cooper played against the Giants, he has seen 81% of our snaps, almost exclusively at LCB. The same position previously played by Flowers, and played by Richard Sherman, Darrelle Revis, Joe Haden, and, you know, every other great CB.


http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/10/antonio_cromartie_dee_milliner_among_the_worst_ranked_cornerbacks_in_the_nfl.html

I stand corrected on Cromartie. With Marcus Cooper though last game he seemed to be going against Greg Little / Bess more than Gordon I thought. Don't get me wrong Cooper has played fantastic, I love the kid. But pro bowl? I just dont know.


That's a matter of Cleveland's choice though, really. We have CBs play sides, not players. Seattle, amongst others, does the same. So had the Browns played Seattle on Sunday, for instance, Brandon Browner would have played Josh Gordon just like Sean Smith did.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:

Cromartie has played poor? We must be watching completely different games then? (I hope you're not basing it off of last weeks performance vs the Bengals?) Also, you cannot give me a legit excuse that Verner is playing #2 Wrs when Cooper is playing 2-3-4s himself. That isn't a valid excuse on any level. Haden is a beast, I can't even comment on that besides what I have already said.


Cromartie has had more poor outings than good ones this year. I didn't catch the Cincy game, so that's not what I'm basing it on. I'm basing it on Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Tennessee, and Tampa, all games he struggled in. The guy has allowed more yards and TDs than any other corner either of us have mentioned, in addition to making basically no plays on the ball (0 picks, 1 PD.) The guy has struggled. Cooper does not play 2s, 3s, or 4s. You're not paying any attention to our defensive gameplan if you think that's his role. Cooper plays 1s (or, RWRs, in any case), he just doesn't do it full-time. Since Cooper played against the Giants, he has seen 81% of our snaps, almost exclusively at LCB. The same position previously played by Flowers, and played by Richard Sherman, Darrelle Revis, Joe Haden, and, you know, every other great CB.


http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/10/antonio_cromartie_dee_milliner_among_the_worst_ranked_cornerbacks_in_the_nfl.html

I stand corrected on Cromartie. With Marcus Cooper though last game he seemed to be going against Greg Little / Bess more than Gordon I thought. Don't get me wrong Cooper has played fantastic, I love the kid. But pro bowl? I just dont know.


That's a matter of Cleveland's choice though, really. We have CBs play sides, not players. Seattle, amongst others, does the same. So had the Browns played Seattle on Sunday, for instance, Brandon Browner would have played Josh Gordon just like Sean Smith did.


I wonder what the reasoning is for corners playing a specific man or playing a side. Obviously with coverages rolling to specific sides maybe corners are just more comfortable on a specific side? I am not sure. Like I remember Revis playing a specific target week in week out, not a specific side?
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jimmydee1


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More times than not, your second best cover man will cover the #1 receiver and get help over the top from a safety. Your best cover man can absolutely shut down their #2 (generally), and that turns a few more folks loose to different schemes.

If your #1 cover man can't control their #1 receiver, then your #2 corner is in trouble with single coverage on their #2. #2 cover man with safety help over the top puts you in a better situation for good coverage on both their #1-2 guys.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:

I wonder what the reasoning is for corners playing a specific man or playing a side. Obviously with coverages rolling to specific sides maybe corners are just more comfortable on a specific side? I am not sure. Like I remember Revis playing a specific target week in week out, not a specific side?


It is often comfort. I would be willing to bet with us that it has to do with Sean Smith being more comfortable on the right. I do know neither Cooper or Smith can even pretend to be useful in the slot, which is why we have Flowers handle that. It was the big question with Carr, if he'd do as well on the left as he did on the right. Just depends on the player. Same with OTs, honestly.
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jimmydee1


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say that because it seems that's the way Cooper is being used most of the time. That's what I see, anyway....talk about it.
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jimmydee1


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woopsie....my first post 'didn't"!

Most play their #2 cover corner on the #1 receiver and give him help over the top with a safety. The #1 cover corner plays man on their #2 receiver, thinking he needs no help on the #2. This allows the Def. to scheme differently. Occasionally let the #2 corner handle their #1 man, letting a safety free up to bliltz, or what ever. That's the way I think we're using Cooper.....
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=kansas-city-chiefs&id=2397&src=desktop
Quote:
"If [the opposing quarterback] wants to throw it [quickly], it really doesn't matter if five [pass-rushers] are coming or six are coming or four are coming. If he just wants to get rid of the ball, he can do that. Obviously the more people we put in coverage, the [more] we can affect who he can throw to."


A little insight as to why our defense all of a sudden can't get pressure and now isn't getting turnovers. As I understand things, they way to disrupt a short passing attack is through jamming at the LOS, but as I and others have pointed out, we've been doing less of that. Well I hope we've learned our lesson. Just putting more bodies in coverage is not good enough. There's simply too much space on the field for someone to get open.
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Da_Zou13


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get that Cooper has done well so far this season, but Pro Bowl? Really? Cooper is the 3rd corner on our team, so I guaruntee that no one is going to vote for him. As for his play, its been up and down. Honestly he lookes exactly like a rookie should look. He has flashes of greatness then gets beat deep. Now I will say hes been more good than bad but he still needs to be more consistent to be considered one of the top tier guys and go to a pro bowl.
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kylecumberland


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Da_Zou13 wrote:
I get that Cooper has done well so far this season, but Pro Bowl? Really? Cooper is the 3rd corner on our team, so I guaruntee that no one is going to vote for him. As for his play, its been up and down. Honestly he lookes exactly like a rookie should look. He has flashes of greatness then gets beat deep. Now I will say hes been more good than bad but he still needs to be more consistent to be considered one of the top tier guys and go to a pro bowl.


Even the best corners have up and down moments. There is no such thing as a shut down corner anymore. The best corners are the ones that have short memories and can rebound from being burnt.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Da_Zou13 wrote:
I get that Cooper has done well so far this season, but Pro Bowl? Really? Cooper is the 3rd corner on our team, so I guaruntee that no one is going to vote for him. As for his play, its been up and down. Honestly he lookes exactly like a rookie should look. He has flashes of greatness then gets beat deep. Now I will say hes been more good than bad but he still needs to be more consistent to be considered one of the top tier guys and go to a pro bowl.


Cooper has not looked like how rookies look at the CB position. He has very seldom been burnt deep, and has been more consistent than Smith or Flowers this season, really.

That said, he won't make the pro-bowl because he isn't on the ballot.
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KC_Guy


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pro Bowl selection process is completely different this year. No AFC vs. NFC but mixed teams. More fantasy draft style with Deion Sandcastle and Jerry Rice heading the selection process. It's kinda weird that the ballots are created that early in the season - tough times for good players without a big name to make it ... while others do without an even somewhat Pro Bowl-adequate performance ... like Eric Fisher.

Quote:
It's time to vote for the best players, regardless of conference. The NFL's top two vote-getters on offense and defense become team captains for Deion Sanders' team and Jerry Rice's team. In a fantasy draft style setting, the captains pick from the voted all-stars to form the teams. And when the stars are realigned, it's teammate versus teammate in the new Pro Bowl: Unconferenced.


http://www.nfl.com/probowl/ballot
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