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The Truth of our Depth Chart
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 14866
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:33 am    Post subject: The Truth of our Depth Chart Reply with quote

Let's be honest with ourselves first and foremost. This season is over.


When we start to look towards the future, ask yourselves, honestly, what do we REALLY have on this team?

QB: Ben Roethlisberger / Bruce Gradkowski / Landry Jones

Ben is the only one here, to me, that is relevant, if he goes down, we're not winning any games. Ironically, with him at the helm we're still not winning games.

RB: Le'Veon Bell / Jonathan Dwyer / Felix Jones

I like Felix, i like Bell, I can't stand Dwyer, but all three have contribued, however, what our backfield lacks is a game changer. A guy with elite speed that can break away. Bell is a going to be a very talented bruiser, but he doesn't change the game.

TE: Heath Miller / ...who cares

Heath Miller isn't the same guy he used to be and the rest of them are garbage.

WR: Antonio Brown / Jerricho Cotchery / Emmanuel Sanders / Markus Wheaton / Derek Moye

I think there's serious potential with Wheaton. I think Jerricho and Sanders will be gone at the end of the season. AB is legit, I love him as our #1.. Why the F don't we use Moye more?

LT: We don't have one.

LG: Ramon Foster / Guy Whimper

Neither of them are worth keeping and they're both injured and liabilities.

C : Fernando Velasco / Maurkice Pouncey

If Fernando isn't kept that's reason enough for me to fire Colbert.

RG: David DeCastro / Cody Wallace

David is injured again, Cody is irrelevant.

RT: Mike Adams, Marcus Gilbert, Kelvin Beachum.

Fact is, the only guy that deserves to be on this team is Beachum.


LDE: Cameron Heyward / Ziggy Hood

Let's be honest, neither one of these guys has improved the defensive line.

NT: Steve McLendon / Hebron Fangupo

Imo, SMac is a garbage NT, he needs to be cut in the offseason.. Who knows about Hebron, he hasn't been given a chance.

RDE: Brett Keisel / Al Woods

Keisel will retire most likely and Al Woods will hit the free agent market. AKA we have no depth at the position.

LOLB: LaMarr Woodley / Chris Carter

Woodley finally looks like his old self and ...why is Carter still on the roster?

ILB:Lawrence Timmons / Vince Williams

I listed the only two worth listing. The rest are trash/Special Teamers

ROLB: Jarvis Jones / Jason Worilds

Worilds won't be back. Jarvis is legit future, anyone else at the position shouldn't be on the roster.

CB: Ike Taylor / Cortez Allen / William Gay

I listed what is worth listing, the rest of the depth has no place on this roster. Furthermore, what has Cortez really shown to deserve a starting job, which William Gay currently holds anyway? Ike Taylor is done. Hopefully we wise up and cut him. Even if we don't have anything behind him, he is a major liability these days.

FS: Ryan Clark / Robert Golden

SS: Troy Polamalu / Shamarko Thomas

I'm listing these two positions together because I don't believe Golden has any future here, Ryan Clark needs to retire, and Shamarko needs to start at FS across from Troy.


At the end of the day, this is about drafting. When you look at our starters, you'd like to think we're okay. We're 2-5, we clearly aren't. We seriously lack speed on the defense in a game that has become very much about speed. We're still stuck in this "smash mouth football" phase and that's not what the league is anymore.

Kevin Colbert has not done his job. We have more draft picks NOT on this team anymore than we have players that we did draft on it.

There is no doubt in my mind if Colbert is fired he'll be scooped up quickly. That doesn't change the fact, he needs to lose his job and our scouting dept needs to be replaced.

Our Strength and Conditioning coach also needs to lose his job. Along with Todd Haley and the Defensive Line Coach.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Imo, SMac is a garbage NT, he needs to be cut in the offseason


I remember a guy named Kimo who struggled a bit at NT in 2000, and carved out a pretty good career at DE for the team. And for all of your lamentations about his play this season, the Raiders didn't run the ball down the Steelers throats. When they lined up in conventional sets and tried, it failed pretty miserably.

It's also a bit odd that in one vein you say the defense needs to get more athletic, and yet in the other you are calling for a true NT. How athletic are Justin Houstin and Tamba Hali? Neither one can run and cover legitimately.

Smart football players > athletic football players with no sense. Ziggy Hood is a great athlete for a guy his size, but he doesn't have the technique or play recognition.

Quote:
Ike Taylor is done. Hopefully we wise up and cut him. Even if we don't have anything behind him, he is a major liability these days.


I would wager he is still one of the fastest guys on the team. I love how he's done. How many TD's has he allowed this year? The only issue with Ike is his age sets him up for a decline.

They lost to the Raiders. It wasn't because of Ike.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Quote:

Imo, SMac is a garbage NT, he needs to be cut in the offseason


I remember a guy named Kimo who struggled a bit at NT in 2000, and carved out a pretty good career at DE for the team. And for all of your lamentations about his play this season, the Raiders didn't run the ball down the Steelers throats. When they lined up in conventional sets and tried, it failed pretty miserably.

It's also a bit odd that in one vein you say the defense needs to get more athletic, and yet in the other you are calling for a true NT. How athletic are Justin Houstin and Tamba Hali? Neither one can run and cover legitimately.

I'm talking about the guys behind the Defensive line. I know I didn't make that clear. My apologies.

Smart football players > athletic football players with no sense. Ziggy Hood is a great athlete for a guy his size, but he doesn't have the technique or play recognition.

Quote:
Ike Taylor is done. Hopefully we wise up and cut him. Even if we don't have anything behind him, he is a major liability these days.


I would wager he is still one of the fastest guys on the team. I love how he's done. How many TD's has he allowed this year? The only issue with Ike is his age sets him up for a decline.

They lost to the Raiders. It wasn't because of Ike.

No, it wasn't because of Ike, however, he is definitely showing his age out there. The primary reason I say he's done is because, we have so many problems that by the time we get them fixed, he's going to be too old and slow to be of any use. He's expensive, it's a place we can cut salary and start to fix this team.

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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: The Truth of our Depth Chart Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
Let's be honest with ourselves first and foremost. This season is over. yep, said that a few weeks ago


When we start to look towards the future, ask yourselves, honestly, what do we REALLY have on this team?

QB: Ben Roethlisberger / Bruce Gradkowski / Landry Jones

Ben is the only one here, to me, that is relevant, if he goes down, we're not winning any games. Ironically, with him at the helm we're still not winning games.

Gradkowski can hold down the fort and on a team that is capable of winning games, he could win. Landry Jones was an absolutely horrible draft pick, complete waste

RB: Le'Veon Bell / Jonathan Dwyer / Felix Jones

I like Felix, i like Bell, I can't stand Dwyer, but all three have contribued, however, what our backfield lacks is a game changer. A guy with elite speed that can break away. Bell is a going to be a very talented bruiser, but he doesn't change the game.

no but not every team has a super fast guy that can change games like Jamaal Charles. Matt Forte doesn't change games, nor does Arian Foster

TE: Heath Miller / ...who cares

Heath Miller isn't the same guy he used to be and the rest of them are garbage.
agreed. we should have a coach dedicated to scouting power forwards at college basketball games


WR: Antonio Brown / Jerricho Cotchery / Emmanuel Sanders / Markus Wheaton / Derek Moye

I think there's serious potential with Wheaton. I think Jerricho and Sanders will be gone at the end of the season. AB is legit, I love him as our #1.. Why the F don't we use Moye more?
i think we'll keep cotchery, he's worth it. He's cheap, adds smart playmaking, and Cotchery is productive


LT: We don't have one.
and if we did, we'd ruin him with incompetent blocking schemes, moronic play calling, and complete lack of coaching

LG: Ramon Foster / Guy Whimper
Neither of them are worth keeping and they're both injured and liabilities.

C : Fernando Velasco / Maurkice Pouncey
If Fernando isn't kept that's reason enough for me to fire Colbert.

prep your "firing stick" because we will break the bank for Pouncey and let Velasco walk if he wants starter money (which he has more than earned)

RG: David DeCastro / Cody Wallace
David is injured again, Cody is irrelevant.

RT: Mike Adams, Marcus Gilbert, Kelvin Beachum.
Fact is, the only guy that deserves to be on this team is Beachum.
utter horsetrash. Adams was dominant last season as a RT and he has played very well since coming in the last few games. Gilbert is more than serviceable. Beachum has gotten his [inappropriate/removed] kicked when he's on the field and he doesn't have an extra TE dedicated to helping him. He's our LG, or at least, he should be.

LDE: Cameron Heyward / Ziggy Hood
Let's be honest, neither one of these guys has improved the defensive line.
nonsense. Cam Heyward has been very good. Hood has been irrelevant. I'd extend Hood if he's willling to take backup money. If he wants starter money, then sayonora

NT: Steve McLendon / Hebron Fangupo
Imo, SMac is a garbage NT, he needs to be cut in the offseason.. Who knows about Hebron, he hasn't been given a chance.
McLendon should be our RDE, not a cut.

RDE: Brett Keisel / Al Woods
Keisel will retire most likely and Al Woods will hit the free agent market. AKA we have no depth at the position.
we won't let Woods hit the FA market, and if we do, we'll match.

LOLB: LaMarr Woodley / Chris Carter
Woodley finally looks like his old self and ...why is Carter still on the roster?
Woodley kinda looks like himself, almost. To be honest, I didn't realize Carter was active on gamedays.

ILB:Lawrence Timmons / Vince Williams
I listed the only two worth listing. The rest are trash/Special Teamers
well special teamers are important.

ROLB: Jarvis Jones / Jason Worilds
Worilds won't be back. Jarvis is legit future, anyone else at the position shouldn't be on the roster.
don't be so sure on that. Worilds has been about as good as Jones. I am starting to fear for Jones' future as an OLB. He is playing exactly as I feared he would play. He's irrelevant in the passing game when blocked. He is better vs. the run than I expected though, and ok in coverage. If we pass on Anthony Barr this coming season because we think we have "the answer", then that is another reason for Colbert to be fired

CB: Ike Taylor / Cortez Allen / William Gay
I listed what is worth listing, the rest of the depth has no place on this roster. Furthermore, what has Cortez really shown to deserve a starting job, which William Gay currently holds anyway? sadly, nothing this season. He's been a pretty mediocre CB who is injured, again.
Ike Taylor is done. Hopefully we wise up and cut him. Even if we don't have anything behind him, he is a major liability these days. and replace him with whom? Curtis Brown? You want to see a REAL liabilty? Ike is far from a liability. I think you're just grumpy from yet another loss, because Ike played like trash vs. Oakland

FS: Ryan Clark / Robert Golden
SS: Troy Polamalu / Shamarko Thomas
I'm listing these two positions together because I don't believe Golden has any future here, Ryan Clark needs to retire, and Shamarko needs to start at FS across from Troy.
agreed

Our Strength and Conditioning coach also needs to lose his job. Along with Todd Haley and the Defensive Line Coach.


problem with the DL coach losing his job is that Mitchell does what LeBeau wants him to do. He trains the DL EXACTLY as LeBeau wants them trained.


wwhickok wrote:
No, it wasn't because of Ike, however, he is definitely showing his age out there. The primary reason I say he's done is because, we have so many problems that by the time we get them fixed, he's going to be too old and slow to be of any use. He's expensive, it's a place we can cut salary and start to fix this team.


ok, well that makes some sense then.
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The Curtain


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Markus Wheaton on the depth chart? Could of fooled me. The season is over, might as well get him as much time as they can already.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Curtain wrote:
Is Markus Wheaton on the depth chart? Could of fooled me. The season is over, might as well get him as much time as they can already.



First of all, @ Keth, I can agree with you on McLendon being moved to DE. He's just not a NT. I can also agree with Adams at RT, i didn't really account for that when I made the comment about the position. I've actually defended him as a RT. He'll just never be a LT again.

No, I'm not just grumpy over a loss and no you don't replace Ike with Curtis. Unfortunately, I think William Gay, Ike, and Allen are the only guys that should be on the roster at that position come the off season, the rest of them are worthless, which sucks, because when he was drafted, I was a huge fan of Curtis Brown. It just goes to show that Colbert puts a TON of weight into the combine, because the combine is what made most people a fan of Brown.
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3rivers


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are back at coaching problems and the depth isn't being utilized on gameday.

If SMac is not playing well, then Fangupo should get playing time.
Adams was good at RT, dominant in the running game - but he is on tomlins bench until injuries force him onto the field
Velasco should be kept, but colbert will break the bank for pouncey
Hood should go play in a 1 gap scheme, not well suited for this scheme and these coaches will never adjust for the players ability - coaching issues
OL seems to never be healthy, I GIVE UP ON THE OL FOR THIS YEAR Rolling Eyes
Clark should be replaced with Thomas
taylor is looking like he has lost it, never really tried to catch Pryor with his speed everyone talks about, but keep curtis brown off the field as he was a waste of pick.

This team has had bad drafts and it will show this year as it has last and will the next few years. The coaching isn't good either so lets hope they draft the right players with the high picks.

If they can get a top LT, will it be worth it or a curse? Will the player even get to play and if he does, will he get hurt like everyone else?

CB - if they draft a good corner in round one, would LeBeau even let him see the field?

DE - It took a few years for Heyward to finally get playing time, and he should have been starting a long time ago

NT - they gave smac the contract and somehow decided he was the future at NT. Obviously not the case, but what now. Has Fangupo even had a chance to prove he can replace smac? I can't remember, so we are stuck with smac like we were stuck with colon I suppose but with smac staying healthy, he will be here for a while.

OLB, Jones was supposed to be the answer, but the coaches aren't giving up on worilds. Sounds like a wasted 1st round pick currently. If worilds leaves via UFA, maybe we will get compensation if he has a good year? Sounds like a good idea?

RB's, we have 3 quality RB's but the OL is always injured. Just can't evaluate RB and won't until the OL can stay healthy. I think these players could do well on other teams, not a pressing need like other positions.
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MightyJoeYoung


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheaton fractured his finger for christ's sake.

That's why he hasn't been seeing the field
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The36Bus


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This entire team is trash and needs to be completely blown up and rebuilt.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The36Bus wrote:
This entire team is trash and needs to be completely blown up and rebuilt.


Now that's some well thought out analysis. Rolling Eyes
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The36Bus wrote:
This entire team is trash and needs to be completely blown up and rebuilt.


Stick to Madden.
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chrisororke


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The36Bus wrote:
This entire team is trash and needs to be completely blown up and rebuilt.


He's not the only one. Everyone around the league is saying it is time for a complete overhaul. Heard that today on ESPN (that's the source). Knowing their refusal to rebuild they have already hit the iceberg and the boat is filling up and they will keep going even when the boat is half filled with water. They are too proud and will sink the ship before rebuilding.

You must tear it down and build it up again or we will suck for a decade with our so-called "franchise QB" who is below Brian Hoyer, Alex Smith, and Joe Flacco in QBR
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisororke wrote:
The36Bus wrote:
This entire team is trash and needs to be completely blown up and rebuilt.


He's not the only one. Everyone around the league is saying it is time for a complete overhaul. Heard that today on ESPN (that's the source). Knowing their refusal to rebuild they have already hit the iceberg and the boat is filling up and they will keep going even when the boat is half filled with water. They are too proud and will sink the ship before rebuilding.

You must tear it down and build it up again or we will suck for a decade with our so-called "franchise QB" who is below Brian Hoyer, Alex Smith, and Joe Flacco in QBR


ESPN also said that about us back in 2006. ESPN is trash.

They dont need to tear it all down. Thats just stupid. They need some more pieces but not a complete overhaul.

And if you are seriously citing QBR as a relevant metric, all I can do is laugh. Not only that, but stats dont even tell the entire story with Ben.

Supposed franchise QB? Your blind hate for Ben is just ridiculous.
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Steeler Hitman


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: The Truth of our Depth Chart Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
Let's be honest with ourselves first and foremost. This season is over.

Well written post. I don't agree with every assessment, but I do like the organization, thinking and arguments that you made.

Yes, the season is over as far as play-offs are concerned. What can and should be happening are players playing for their present and future paychecks. I hope we don't get Big Ben killed before the end of the season.


When we start to look towards the future, ask yourselves, honestly, what do we REALLY have on this team?

I agree 100%. We are what our record says we are. Yes there have been injuries and other contributing factors, but we are 2 - 5 because of unsuccessful draft choices. Everyone makes mistakes evaluating talent, especially picking in the lower tier of every round year in and your out.

However, the poor evaluation/production of some of these draft picks is now hurting us:

2006 - - No one remains from this draft class. Santonio Holmes was SB MVP and Willie Colon is the only other player who made any significant impact from thi class: S Anthony Smith, WR/KR Willie Reid and DE Orien Smith did nothing.

2007 - - Timmons and Woodley very good picks. Spaeth and Gay came back to us. Sepulveda couldn't stay healthy and Mc Bean ended up in Denver for a while.

2008 - - Mendy, Dixon and Mundy are gone via free agency. However, Limas Sweed, Bruce Davis and Tony Hills did nothing to help our roster. Sweed should be our #1. Davis should be starting opposite Woodley and Hills should be a starting OL. Those picks are hurting us now.

2009 - - Ziggy starter, but not ideal for 3-4. Kraig Urbik horrible pick. Wallace and Lewis took te money and ran. Joe Burnett and Frank Summers cut. DJ has been a good 7th round pick.

2010 - -Pouncey, Sanders and Brown are solid picks. Dwyer not bad for a 6th rounder. However, Worilds has not developed into solid OLB, Gibson, Scott, Butler, and Sylvester no contribution other than Sylvester on special teams and being cut and brought back this year.

2011, 2013 and 2013 I will still give time to develop, but you see my point: The talent and evaluations of some players are hurting us now from overall talent, development and depth.


QB: Ben Roethlisberger / Bruce Gradkowski / Landry Jones

Ben is the only one here, to me, that is relevant, if he goes down, we're not winning any games. Ironically, with him at the helm we're still not winning games.

I agree somewhat. Gradkowski can win a game or two. He knows the teams in the division, has experience and some athleticism. We got spoiled having Lefwhich and Batch as back-ups when they were younger. Not many teams have two former top ten draft picks at QB and a 2nd rounder all with game and play-off experience. Landry can develop in another year. Most QB's do the most developing between year one and two.

Personally, I would love to get a Mark Sanchez and let him get a fresh start. He is Gradkowski with more upside. The change of scenery may help him. The problem will be $$$$. The Steelers can't afford to pay him what he will want evan as a back-up.


RB: Le'Veon Bell / Jonathan Dwyer / Felix Jones

I like Felix, I like Bell, I can't stand Dwyer, but all three have contribued, however, what our backfield lacks is a game changer. A guy with elite speed that can break away. Bell is a going to be a very talented bruiser, but he doesn't change the game.

It's too early to say anything final about Bell. I would love to see what he can do with some blocking. Quickness and vision go a long way. I love the example that Kethnaab gave with Forte and Foster. I'll throw in Alfred Morris as well. Bell isn't AP, but with some decent blocking he can be all that Foster Forte and Morris are. In fact, I would say that he has more overall athleticism and natural talent than any of those three backs (E.G. he is a better NFL prospect). Besides hopefully Stephens-Howling will be back to fill that role.



TE: Heath Miller / ...who cares

Heath Miller isn't the same guy he used to be and the rest of them are garbage.

In Heath's defense it hasn't been 1 year since his injury. Despite some fumbles he has done solid job considering. They could use a Tyler Eifert type of prospect. Spaeth and DJ are strictly back-ups. I am extremely disappointed in Paulson. He can't block or catch so he shouldn't be playing TE. Again, Kethnaab made a good point about scouting the college rank for the next Jimmy Graham. Everyone wants one of those guys.

WR: Antonio Brown / Jerricho Cotchery / Emmanuel Sanders / Markus Wheaton / Derek Moye

I think there's serious potential with Wheaton. I think Jerricho and Sanders will be gone at the end of the season. AB is legit, I love him as our #1.. Why the F don't we use Moye more?

AB is a great player. He is maturing, has a solid work ethic and will get better. He has some drops, but he is a pro bowl caliber WR. He would be even better with a bigger WR opposite him.

Moye is a rookie and the timing and confidence isn't there yet. The more reps he gets the better he will become.

I think Wheaton and Moye are much better year two if they can stay healthy. Sanders is probably gone. The team will draft or sign a veteran with some size.


LT: We don't have one.

We don't have one on the roster. Levi Brown was to be Max Starks Part Deaux. Gilbert, Brown and Adams are all RT's.

LG: Ramon Foster / Guy Whimper

Neither of them are worth keeping and they're both injured and liabilities.

I agree. I never liked either much. Would settle for Foster as a back-up, but he is now paid too much to be simply a back-up.


C : Fernando Velasco / Maurkice Pouncey

If Fernando isn't kept that's reason enough for me to fire Colbert.

Both should be kept and I disagree with many here, Pouncey would move to LG. Velasco has done very well at C and Pouncey can play G at as high a level as he can Center.

RG: David DeCastro / Cody Wallace

David is injured again, Cody is irrelevant.

Would keep both. DeCastro is getting better. Wallace is a decent developmental option. Pouncey Velasco, De Castro is better than what we have right now at the C and OG spots.



RT: Mike Adams, Marcus Gilbert, Kelvin Beachum.

Fact is, the only guy that deserves to be on this team is Beachum.


People are very hard on Adams. He played out of position. He is the best RT on the roster and if we had a LT that is where he would have played and probably excelled. We tried to put a round peg in a square hole. Put Adams at RT next to DeCastro and our right side is set.

Bechum is a back-up. He is great as a back-up and in certain packages as a blocking TE. Just because he plays well in that role doesn't equate to starting talent. He has been as bad at LT as Adams has. He has gotten a pass because everyone knows he is not a LT. For some reason we think Adams is a LT.

I have never been a Gilbert fan and would prefer to move on from him. He offers little in my humble opinion. I would love to see this OL

Draft Franchise LT, LG Pouncey, C Velasco, RG DeCatsro, RT Adams

Back-ups: Resign Levi Brown. He can play both LT/RT as a solid back-up
Cody Wallace as back-up G
Kelvin Beachum as utility OL
Sign another back-up veteran who can play LT.



LDE: Cameron Heyward / Ziggy Hood

Let's be honest, neither one of these guys has improved the defensive line.

More to do with scheme versus their talents. Both work hard and would be better as role players than starters. That said, Ziggy is probably gone in 2014.


NT: Steve McLendon / Hebron Fangupo

Imo, SMac is a garbage NT, he needs to be cut in the offseason.. Who knows about Hebron, he hasn't been given a chance.

SMAC should be a back-up. We need a big nasty here. A immovable 6'3 330 pound hunk of beauty. Hebron should be getting some reps.

RDE: Brett Keisel / Al Woods

Keisel will retire most likely and Al Woods will hit the free agent market. AKA we have no depth at the position.

I think Woods takes Ziggy's old spot and Heyward is in Keisel's old spot and they sign one and draft one (3-4 DE).

LOLB: LaMarr Woodley / Chris Carter

Woodley finally looks like his old self and ...why is Carter still on the roster?

They need a playmaker. I think Carter is gone and they draft a big play athletic type to develop (not named Worilds, Davis, Carter, Jackson.......)

ILB:Lawrence Timmons / Vince Williams

I listed the only two worth listing. The rest are trash/Special Teamers

They need the old Kirkland type here. The loss of Foote hurt much more than people realized. What he lacked in size and athletics he made up for with smarts. I am pulling for Sean Spence to make it back, but they definitely need some more talent here.

ROLB: Jarvis Jones / Jason Worilds

Worilds won't be back. Jarvis is legit future, anyone else at the position shouldn't be on the roster.


Agree. I think they draft a guy to be Woodley's replacement. The talent evaluations have to pick-up at LB. We have been striking out with starting/front line talent and with depth.


CB: Ike Taylor / Cortez Allen / William Gay

I listed what is worth listing, the rest of the depth has no place on this roster. Furthermore, what has Cortez really shown to deserve a starting job, which William Gay currently holds anyway? Ike Taylor is done. Hopefully we wise up and cut him. Even if we don't have anything behind him, he is a major liability these days.

I disagree with your assessment of Taylor and Allen. Ike has been solid.
Gay is a #3, but he has stepped his game up there and filling in for Allen. Allen is Ike Taylor with hands and instincts. He is not nearly as fast or athletic or tall as Ike, but he is a better overall CB prospect. If he can stay healthy to develop, I believe that he can be special. You can build the CB's around Allen. Brown is a major disappointment. They need to draft a play-maker at CB. Ike is not the future, but he and Gay are holding it together with no pass rush.

Our secondary would be even better if they had a pass rush to go with it. LeBeau doesn't seem to blitz a DB not named Polamalu. With Allen's size, speed and quickness, he could do this as well as Gay. Hell Brown can at least run. If our LB's can't get a pass rush use the DB's.


FS: Ryan Clark / Robert Golden

SS: Troy Polamalu / Shamarko Thomas

I'm listing these two positions together because I don't believe Golden has any future here, Ryan Clark needs to retire, and Shamarko needs to start at FS across from Troy.

I disagree with Golden. He is not Earl Thomas, but can play our system. The blast he took from Cutler in the Bears game was more from him not wanting to get fined than his lack of aggressiveness. We could use a Eric Berry type to replace Troy in 2015.


At the end of the day, this is about drafting.

Agreed the lack of quality picks and poor evaluations on the OL and LB have especially hurt us.

When you look at our starters, you'd like to think we're okay. We're 2-5, we clearly aren't.

Injuries, lack of depth and a salary cap hurt you. Having star players eat up cap money and opportunities for quality depth. Even more important to be able to draft well because of the cap hits.


We seriously lack speed on the defense in a game that has become very much about speed.

Injuries contribute to that as well. It is more the talent than the lack of speed. Foote wasn't fast or quick, but he was where he was supposed to be. I am all for having speed, but I want football players and not just athletes.

We're still stuck in this "smash mouth football" phase and that's not what the league is anymore.

I disagree with you here. We love the forward pass. It is fun, exciting and puts points up quickly. Give me a dominant OL with our franchise QB, our young RB Bell and WR's and we wouldn't be having this conversation about the offense.

A pass rush and turnovers on defense would make our slow guys look a lot faster.

We are struggling on offense because we can't run the ball period. We have no offensive balance. Teams don't have to sell out to stop the run because they are beating our OL one on one. Our TE's are doing little to help set the edge as well. They can get to our QB with their front four most of the time.

Kansas City looks great right now. Why? They can run the ball and put pressure on the opposing QB. No knock to Alex Smith but Alex Smith is a game manager, not a game changer. He has Brandon Albert to protect him a solid OL and Jamaal Charles running the ball. They get sacks and turnovers on defense. Dwayne Bowe and the WR's are not resembling the Saints on offense. They are simply winning games.

Give those same tools to Big Ben and company and we are saying the following:

1. Haley is jerk, but he calls good plays. Bruce who?
2. Tomlin's coaching with fire again. He's another Don Shula.
3. Le Beau is still the mad scientist.

It comes down to blocking and tackling. That is football. Denver's offense is high flying and fun. If I can eat up 7 or 8 minutes a drive and play solid D, but I will beat them or any other high flying offense every time with an unstoppable ground gain and a decent defense with pass rush ability.


Kevin Colbert has not done his job. We have more draft picks NOT on this team anymore than we have players that we did draft on it.

I wouldn't say Colbert didn't do his job. The Steelers of the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's and every other team missed and passed on more talented players than they selected.

No one is perfect at the art of the draft. Everyone makes mistakes in that business. He has more hits than misses. However, he has struck out more and more recently and that is why we are struggling.

We have missed on some of the locker room leaders and character guys as well as from a pure talent standpoint.

There is no doubt in my mind if Colbert is fired he'll be scooped up quickly. That doesn't change the fact, he needs to lose his job and our scouting dept needs to be replaced.

This is typical of today's thinking in business, life and football. This is also why I believe we are so messed up as a country and in other areas (Didn't mean to vent there).

Fact is that no one has any patience. You don't win the Super Bowl every year. You don't win every game or score every offensive play. Everyone makes mistakes and messes up in life and football. Let these guys learn from the mistake and draft the next generation of great Steelers. We are not a total rebuild organization.

1. Get your franchise QB protection. Keep him healthy and upright.
2. Get your franchise QB more offensive weapons (Big WR, athletic TE or two).
3. Get some defensive play makers. No splash plays, forced fumbles, sacks, INT's and intimidation!
4. Fix the inconsistencies on Special Teams (Punter, protection, coverage).
A. If someone has to go it is Mesko. He's been a disappointment.
B. Lack of talent/depth hurting here on protection. I think Paulson got beat on the blocked punt.
C. Coverage because special teams is an attitude. Find out what VA Tech teaches their kids.

That is far more effective than cleaning house. We are playing poorly so we should be in position to draft a franchise LT. You don't find those guys consistently picking in the late 20's and early 30's of the first round.


Our Strength and Conditioning coach also needs to lose his job. Along with Todd Haley and the Defensive Line Coach.

Coaches and coordinators look great because of talent.
The Steelers are not out of shape or any less informed or coached than in that area than anyone else. I fact, most of these guys have their own personal routines, personal fitness coaches, kinesiology experts, etc.

I question a lot of what Haley does, however, he is fighting an army with a handgun. Our offense is one dimensional because we have nothing in the trenches. It all starts up front. Haley looked pretty smart against the Ravens because we had success running the ball.

He is back to being a jerk against the Raiders because our OL didn't match up well with the Raiders front seven.

As far as John Mitchell goes: Ziggy, SMAC, Heyward, Woods, Keisel, and Fene don't put the fear of Reggie White into any opposing OL's.



Again good post. It is another down year, but great organization bounce back. The draft mistakes and development phases need to improve for the Steelers to be legitimate contenders again.

_________________
"Being a Steeler fan starts when the sperm meets the egg!" -- Unknown Steeler Fan


Thanks for the Sig CalhounLambeau!
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byerly724


Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Posts: 207
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: The Truth of our Depth Chart Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
Matt Forte doesn't change games, nor does Arian Foster



Did you really just say that arian foster can't change a game? the guy has been one of the most productive backs in most categories the past few years, and matt forte accounted for more the 50% of his teams offense when healthy. That's pretty game changing for me.
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