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Dimitroff and the neglecting the lines myth.
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scar988


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Dimitroff and the neglecting the lines myth. Reply with quote

People love to talk about how "Dimitroff neglects the offensive and defensive lines." But let's take a quick look at this shall we:

2008
1st - OT Sam Baker
5th - DE Kroy Biermann

2009
1st DT Peria Jerry
4th DE Lawrence Sidbury
5th OL Garrett Reynolds
7th DT Vance Walker

2010
3rd DT Corey Peters
3rd OL Mike Johnson
4th OL Joe Hawley

2011
7th OL Andrew Jackson
7th DE Cliff Matthews

2012
2nd OL Peter Konz
3rd OT Lamar Holmes
5th DE Jonathan Massaquoi
7th DT Travian Robertson

2013
4th DE Malliciah Goodman
5th DE Stansly Maponga

In his 6 drafts, he's taken a defensive lineman every single time. He's had an offensive lineman drafted every single time. If all of his players pan out and are healthy, the Falcons have what looks to be a deep offensive line. Currently the Falcons offensive line is heavily drafted by TD, but there isn't much health there. Baker not being healthy/underperforming and Mike Johnson being hurt thrust Lamar Holmes into a spot he wasn't ready for.

What the line should look like:

Sam Baker - Justin Blalock - Peter Konz - Garrett Reynolds - Mike Johnson

What it has looked like:

Lamar Holmes - Justin Blalock - Peter Konz - Garrett Reynolds - Jeremy Trueblood

The interior has been decent, but the tackles have been underperforming. Konz also doesn't have any functional strength and would benefit from the offense moving to a ZBS in run blocking.


On the defensive line, it's obviously a development and injury situation. There's a ton of talent there and most of it is recently drafted too. Corey Peters is quietly putting together a really good season and Babineaux has been good for a while. Peria Jerry has been improved, but Atlanta could benefit from another solid 3rd round DT in this next draft to team long term with Peters/eventually replace Babineaux. That or just re-sign Vance Walker. He's been beasting it in Oakland. At end, there's the true development issue. There needs to be a pass rush coach brought in for sure.

DE Kroy Biermann
DT Peria Jerry
DT Corey Peters
DE Cliff Matthews
DE Jonathan Massaquoi
DT Travian Robertson
DE Malliciah Goodman
DE Stansly Maponga

However, this thought that the lines have been neglected by TD is a total joke. 4 DT's, 6 DE's, 7 OL picks. I just don't see what else he has to do. Does he need to get better at scouting/developing the lines? maybe. But when it comes to just taking them? that's something he's already been doing.
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BeeperKing


Joined: 10 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:46 am    Post subject: Re: Dimitroff and the neglecting the lines myth. Reply with quote

scar988 wrote:


However, this thought that the lines have been neglected by TD is a total joke. 4 DT's, 6 DE's, 7 OL picks. I just don't see what else he has to do. Does he need to get better at scouting/developing the lines? maybe. But when it comes to just taking them? that's something he's already been doing.


Good post, the last part is what I agree with. He's been building something, it's just players haven't been panning out. Especially on the lines. I think there would be a big benefit from a new coach DL coach. But he's it's not like he's neglecting it, at all.
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scar988


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: Dimitroff and the neglecting the lines myth. Reply with quote

BeeperKing wrote:
scar988 wrote:


However, this thought that the lines have been neglected by TD is a total joke. 4 DT's, 6 DE's, 7 OL picks. I just don't see what else he has to do. Does he need to get better at scouting/developing the lines? maybe. But when it comes to just taking them? that's something he's already been doing.


Good post, the last part is what I agree with. He's been building something, it's just players haven't been panning out. Especially on the lines. I think there would be a big benefit from a new coach DL coach. But he's it's not like he's neglecting it, at all.
even then, injuries have definitely hurt.
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swoosh


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post. In 50% of his drafts, a lineman was selected with the first pick.
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scar988


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swoosh wrote:
Good post. In 50% of his drafts, a lineman was selected with the first pick.
not to mention 6 of them were taken in the first three rounds. a LT, C, G/T and OT. Add them with the pair of DT's he took... and yeah. but considering he already knew what he had in Blalock, had the LT, C, RG, RT picks panned out, the Falcons line probably looks much different this year. I'm talking:

Baker - Blalock - Konz - Johnson - Holmes

as the ideal setup.
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BeeperKing


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: Dimitroff and the neglecting the lines myth. Reply with quote

scar988 wrote:
BeeperKing wrote:
scar988 wrote:


However, this thought that the lines have been neglected by TD is a total joke. 4 DT's, 6 DE's, 7 OL picks. I just don't see what else he has to do. Does he need to get better at scouting/developing the lines? maybe. But when it comes to just taking them? that's something he's already been doing.


Good post, the last part is what I agree with. He's been building something, it's just players haven't been panning out. Especially on the lines. I think there would be a big benefit from a new coach DL coach. But he's it's not like he's neglecting it, at all.
even then, injuries have definitely hurt.


Oh yeah. This team is ravaged, especially in the trenches.

On the topic of depth, I'm really impressed by our WR depth. I was a bit uneasy about it going into the season, but Douglas, Davis, and even Johnson have stepped up really, really nicely. I wish we could see more of Coffman.
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rednblackblood1


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scar, you are 100% correct when you say that it's a myth that TD doesn't take guys in the trenches. But just because he's taken them doesn't mean he's done a great job at it which he hasn't, and it's obvious with the lack of depth that we have. All throughout the preseason our reserves got whooped and now we're seeing the fruit of drafting subpar linemen. Of the guys you listed (excluding the 2012 and 2013 guys because the jury is still out on them) only two of them (Biermann and Walker) could go to another team and start. No one on that list is close to elite. With the Sam Baker draft pick, which I hated then and still do to this day, Dimitroff panicked by trading back up to get him because O-linemen were flying off the board in 2008. I'm still a supporter of Dimitroff but when your backups are playing as poorly as ours are that is a depth issue and Dimitroff should shoulder the vast majority of the blame on that. The two best O-linemen TD picked were Dahl and Clabo and he didn't draft them. I believe if we would take a best-player-available approach to drafting we'd be much better off
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terrell123


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yawn...... All of those picks and not 1 player that stands out. Who's doing the evaluating Arthur Blank?
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terrell123


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Dimitroff and the neglecting the lines myth. Reply with quote

scar988 wrote:
People love to talk about how "Dimitroff neglects the offensive and defensive lines." But let's take a quick look at this shall we:

2008
1st - OT Sam Baker
5th - DE Kroy Biermann

2009
1st DT Peria Jerry
4th DE Lawrence Sidbury
5th OL Garrett Reynolds
7th DT Vance Walker

2010
3rd DT Corey Peters
3rd OL Mike Johnson
4th OL Joe Hawley

2011
7th OL Andrew Jackson
7th DE Cliff Matthews

2012
2nd OL Peter Konz
3rd OT Lamar Holmes
5th DE Jonathan Massaquoi
7th DT Travian Robertson

2013
4th DE Malliciah Goodman
5th DE Stansly Maponga

In his 6 drafts, he's taken a defensive lineman every single time. He's had an offensive lineman drafted every single time. If all of his players pan out and are healthy, the Falcons have what looks to be a deep offensive line. Currently the Falcons offensive line is heavily drafted by TD, but there isn't much health there. Baker not being healthy/underperforming and Mike Johnson being hurt thrust Lamar Holmes into a spot he wasn't ready for.

What the line should look like:

Sam Baker - Justin Blalock - Peter Konz - Garrett Reynolds - Mike Johnson

What it has looked like:

Lamar Holmes - Justin Blalock - Peter Konz - Garrett Reynolds - Jeremy Trueblood

The interior has been decent, but the tackles have been underperforming. Konz also doesn't have any functional strength and would benefit from the offense moving to a ZBS in run blocking.


On the defensive line, it's obviously a development and injury situation. There's a ton of talent there and most of it is recently drafted too. Corey Peters is quietly putting together a really good season and Babineaux has been good for a while. Peria Jerry has been improved, but Atlanta could benefit from another solid 3rd round DT in this next draft to team long term with Peters/eventually replace Babineaux. That or just re-sign Vance Walker. He's been beasting it in Oakland. At end, there's the true development issue. There needs to be a pass rush coach brought in for sure.

DE Kroy Biermann
DT Peria Jerry
DT Corey Peters
DE Cliff Matthews
DE Jonathan Massaquoi
DT Travian Robertson
DE Malliciah Goodman
DE Stansly Maponga

However, this thought that the lines have been neglected by TD is a total joke. 4 DT's, 6 DE's, 7 OL picks. I just don't see what else he has to do. Does he need to get better at scouting/developing the lines? maybe. But when it comes to just taking them? that's something he's already been doing.
If all of his players pan out and are healthy? That's a big azz IF. TD mustve got the wrong memo. AB wanted football players, not more Home Depot employees. Like they say on NFL countdown.... Come on man!
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tech2186


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rednblackblood1 wrote:
scar, you are 100% correct when you say that it's a myth that TD doesn't take guys in the trenches. But just because he's taken them doesn't mean he's done a great job at it which he hasn't, and it's obvious with the lack of depth that we have. All throughout the preseason our reserves got whooped and now we're seeing the fruit of drafting subpar linemen. Of the guys you listed (excluding the 2012 and 2013 guys because the jury is still out on them) only two of them (Biermann and Walker) could go to another team and start. No one on that list is close to elite. With the Sam Baker draft pick, which I hated then and still do to this day, Dimitroff panicked by trading back up to get him because O-linemen were flying off the board in 2008. I'm still a supporter of Dimitroff but when your backups are playing as poorly as ours are that is a depth issue and Dimitroff should shoulder the vast majority of the blame on that. The two best O-linemen TD picked were Dahl and Clabo and he didn't draft them. I believe if we would take a best-player-available approach to drafting we'd be much better off


Agreed, he has picked O-lineman in late rounds for the most part with the exception of Baker and Konz and both are underwhelming at this point especially Baker. The truth is TD and company have failed in drafting talented players in the trenches.

As for the D-line, they relied on Abe for so long instead of grooming the next generation. Peria Jerry was and is a bust. He has set the D-line back a good 2-3 years. Because you had to wait that long to see if he was worth his pick and he was not. To act like TD isn't to blame for his drafting and talent evaluations is ridiculous. If he isn't to blame why is this team so bad? Whose fault is it?
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falcons145


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not that he doesn't address it, it's that the linemen never live up to their potential. We need to consider getting a new offensive line coach and if not TD needs to scout offensive linemen differently
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JonnyQuest


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't look for impact players in the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds. These are depth building picks, and TD has failed even in that aspect. I'm not a TD hater. I think he deserves one more year. However, he has been terrible at evaluating trench talent, and has been horrible picking them as well. He needs to take off his team captain only goggles and actually draft based on talent. That doesn't mean take a guy with multiple charges on his record, but don't completely erase someone off the board because of a small mistake.
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Deadeye


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Dimitroff and the neglecting the lines myth. Reply with quote

I took the liberty of trimming down one aspect of the list to illustrate the notion that TD has neglected the DE position:
scar988 wrote:

2008
5th - DE Kroy Biermann

2009
4th DE Lawrence Sidbury

2011
7th DE Cliff Matthews

2012
5th DE Jonathan Massaquoi

2013
4th DE Malliciah Goodman
5th DE Stansly Maponga
Notice anything these DEs have in common? None of them were taken higher than the 4th round.

It breaks down as 2 fourths, 3 fifths, and 1 seventh. Given how QBs dominate the NFL these days, pass rushing is the single most crucial aspect of modern NFL defenses. TD has not even used one single first, second, or third round pick on the position in over half a decade. Unless your hitting home runs with those late rounders, that is the very definition of neglect.
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SpoonFed56


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonnyQuest wrote:
You don't look for impact players in the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds. These are depth building picks, and TD has failed even in that aspect. I'm not a TD hater. I think he deserves one more year. However, he has been terrible at evaluating trench talent, and has been horrible picking them as well. He needs to take off his team captain only goggles and actually draft based on talent. That doesn't mean take a guy with multiple charges on his record, but don't completely erase someone off the board because of a small mistake.


This^^^

Baker is a bust. Jerry is slightly improved (which isn't saying much), but he is still a bust. Those were his two first rounders. Konz was 'technically' a first rounder because of the Julio trade (took Konz in the 2nd)... Jury is still out on him but he lacks functional strength. All these other guys not named Biermann are depth. I'm praying TD nails this draft... but the fact remains that he just hasn't been good at evaluating trench talent. I agree the "falcon filter" needs to go as well.
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scar988


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Dimitroff and the neglecting the lines myth. Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
I took the liberty of trimming down one aspect of the list to illustrate the notion that TD has neglected the DE position:
scar988 wrote:

2008
5th - DE Kroy Biermann

2009
4th DE Lawrence Sidbury

2011
7th DE Cliff Matthews

2012
5th DE Jonathan Massaquoi

2013
4th DE Malliciah Goodman
5th DE Stansly Maponga
Notice anything these DEs have in common? None of them were taken higher than the 4th round.

It breaks down as 2 fourths, 3 fifths, and 1 seventh. Given how QBs dominate the NFL these days, pass rushing is the single most crucial aspect of modern NFL defenses. TD has not even used one single first, second, or third round pick on the position in over half a decade. Unless your hitting home runs with those late rounders, that is the very definition of neglect.

Ray Edwards big contract.
Osi Umenyiora contract
John Abraham contract.

Edwards not panning out as a signing stung the worst for pass rush.
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