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Issues with the Secondary pg2 Mo to miss mult games
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Dirk Gently


Joined: 04 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
No pass rush? I thought we did a fairly good job all things considered. Obviously, it needs improvement, but it wasn't nearly nonexistent like it was vs San Diego
agree with this.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
No pass rush? I thought we did a fairly good job all things considered. Obviously, it needs improvement, but it wasn't nearly nonexistent like it was vs San Diego


Our pass rush was pathetic today. We barely laid a hand on Stafford at any point in the game. He had a lot of time to destroy us, coupled with Carr being terrible.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Northland wrote:
Secondary has been poor but we don't have a consistent pass rush either. The two go hand in hand.


As I've said for years, no pass rush will make even the best secondary poor. The secondary depends on the pass rush to play well. We have no pass rush, and that's one of the primary reasons why they're playing so poorly.


This is something that has rung true since 2004 for this team. It doesn't matter if you have Derek Ross and Jacques Reeves back there, or Morris Claiborne and Brandon Carr. Your pass rush will make or break your coverage. A good pass rush can make average-at-best corners look pretty damn good, and a bad pass rush can make great corners look awful.

That said, Carr's performance this afternoon was pathetic. No pass rush could have prevented him from getting beaten 2 and 3 steps into the route. When you are beaten that early, you are beaten basically 1 and 1/4 seconds into the play or even quicker - no pass rush is getting to the QB that quickly with any consistency. I don't care if you've got Bruce Smith, Deacon Jones, Michael Strahan and DeMarcus Ware all playing on that line, you aren't getting to the QB that fast. Carr played terrible.


Agreed. Carr was terrible. But, our pass rush was awful today.
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
Scandrick should be unemployed before tonight is over as far as I'm concerned.


After one bad game?? Hes been quite good this year overall.
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TVScout


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakar was a joke. Could have planted Megatron at the three but chickened out. Mad

He was not the only cowardly faux tackler. Evil or Very Mad

Our team is almost unwatchable.
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DKDALfan


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hitstreak07 wrote:
Was Calvin double teamed more than a handful of times?? Players play, and have to be held accountable, but as a coach, you not only let the best WR in the game single handedly beat you, but you let him have the 2nd greatest day of all time against you......And yes, a lack of pressure does hurt, but other teams receivers aren't just getting open because they have all day to run around......They are wide open in the middle of the field quickly, and regularly

I agree. You need to give all the attention you can on covering Calvin.
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textaz03


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, here is my problem with the scheme.

You know you have the best WR in the league playing your defense, and you are sitting in a Zone Defense. Why would you not change that and go to Man Press coverage? Put 2 DB's right in his face on the line of scrimmage and try and eliminate him all together, dont let him get out on his route?

You take out CJ and make Reggie Bush beat you. Carr is much better in Man coverage and I believe Mo is as well. Why not work to their strengths instead of forcing them into their weakness? I really hate seeing our DB's playing 5-10 yards off line in a Zone!
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Northland


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

textaz03 wrote:
See, here is my problem with the scheme.

You know you have the best WR in the league playing your defense, and you are sitting in a Zone Defense. Why would you not change that and go to Man Press coverage? Put 2 DB's right in his face on the line of scrimmage and try and eliminate him all together, dont let him get out on his route?

You take out CJ and make Reggie Bush beat you. Carr is much better in Man coverage and I believe Mo is as well. Why not work to their strengths instead of forcing them into their weakness? I really hate seeing our DB's playing 5-10 yards off line in a Zone!


Agree with your post. I highlighted the try and eliminate him altogether because there are a lot of cliches in sports and one of them is you don't let the other teams best player beat you. We allowed Stafford and Johnson to play pitch and catch all day.
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DKDALfan


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

textaz03 wrote:
See, here is my problem with the scheme.

You know you have the best WR in the league playing your defense, and you are sitting in a Zone Defense. Why would you not change that and go to Man Press coverage? Put 2 DB's right in his face on the line of scrimmage and try and eliminate him all together, dont let him get out on his route?

You take out CJ and make Reggie Bush beat you. Carr is much better in Man coverage and I believe Mo is as well. Why not work to their strengths instead of forcing them into their weakness? I really hate seeing our DB's playing 5-10 yards off line in a Zone!


true.
IMO you have to mold your scheme to fit your players, not try and fit your players into your scheme.
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textaz03


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete Damilatis ‏@PFF_Pete 30m

Quote:
After surrendering 284 of Calvin Johnson's 329 yds, Brandon Carr earned the worst @PFF grade by a CB this season. #Cowboys
Ouch!!
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DaBoyz4life


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carr is best in man, as witnessed last week against D.Jackson. He's not a big physical corner, the type that tend to do better against Calvin, he uses his quickness and anticipation to his advantage. Yes he had a bad day but so did everyone else.
The defense as a whole didn't play as a whole and that's why they lost.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

textaz03 wrote:
See, here is my problem with the scheme.

You know you have the best WR in the league playing your defense, and you are sitting in a Zone Defense. Why would you not change that and go to Man Press coverage? Put 2 DB's right in his face on the line of scrimmage and try and eliminate him all together, dont let him get out on his route?

You take out CJ and make Reggie Bush beat you. Carr is much better in Man coverage and I believe Mo is as well. Why not work to their strengths instead of forcing them into their weakness? I really hate seeing our DB's playing 5-10 yards off line in a Zone!


The best was to double cover a guy is not to place two defenders in man coverage on the same receiver. Doing that will only cause confusion, which can easily result in tripping up each other or the receiver (which would be a penalty). The most common and most effective way to double cover a guy is to roll 2 zones over to his side, so that he must then go through two different defenders' zones before getting to the safety's deep zone, effectively making him have to beat 3 separate defenders.

And you can press just as much in zone as you can in man. And we did. Calvin simply shoved Carr aside and was free two steps into the play - pressing Calvin was resulting in him getting open more often than not. Similar to how you could not press Randy Moss in his prime, you simply should not be pressing Calvin Johnson - he is too big, too strong and too capable at beating the press quickly and making you pay for it. But if you allow a free release, he'll shred you all the same - damned if you do, damned if you don't. He's that good.

The alternative to rolling two zones to his side, would be man coverage with one defender and rolling a single zone to that side. We did this as well. In fact it was with this coverage that Calvin caught that short yard touchdown at the end of the first quarter. Again, damned if you do, damned if you don't...he is that good.

The only way to really restrict Calvin to fewer catches is a corner who is just as big, just as fast, and just as strong off the snap. Carr was brought in to be just that on the outside, especially in man coverage. While he is fine in zone, he excells in man. But regardless of that fact, Carr had to hold up Calvin at least a few steps more into the route off of the press, and could not for the life of him get it done. No amount of or type of double coverage is going to matter at all when the receiver beats you that bad off the snap and against the press. The downside to any press coverage is that if you get beaten, you do not have the same full strides as the receiver early on and will be chasing rather than covering. And as a coach of mine in high school once said, if you're chasing you're already beaten.
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carr has played against Calvin before and actually did very good the first time he played him. Carr will be fine.. he simply had his worst game as a pro.
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textaz03


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is going to sting the defense a little.

http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com/cowboys/2013/10/cornerback-morris-claiborne-could-miss-next-couple-of-weeks-with-hamstring-injury.html

Quote:
Cornerback Morris Claiborne and safety Barry Church both left with hamstring injuries Sunday. Executive vice president Stephen Jones said Monday that Church's isn't serious, and he should be back this week.

But Jones was more pessimistic about Claiborne's injury. He said Claiborne could miss a couple of games, which would point toward Claiborne's return after the bye week in a Nov. 24 game at the Giants.

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textaz03


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He played 33 of 80 plays Sunday, missing the end of the game with his hamstring injury. Church played 64 of 80 plays


http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com/cowboys/2013/10/cornerback-morris-claiborne-could-miss-next-couple-of-weeks-with-hamstring-injury.html#storylink=cpy

wow, didn't realize Mo missed that many plays. Went out earlier than I thought.
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