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Issues with the Secondary pg2 Mo to miss mult games
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textaz03


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Issues with the Secondary pg2 Mo to miss mult games Reply with quote

All, lets get the focus off of Dez and lets put the focus back on where it needs to be. The secondary!

Through 8 games now, we are 32nd in passing defense! DEAD LAST!

We have allowed 2,523 yards passing through 8 games! And are avg. 315.4 ypg through the air.

The last 5 weeks is this (starting today and going backwards):488 (329 to Megatron), 209, 246, 414, 401. 3 of the last 5 games have allowed over 400 yards passing.

Is this a player problem? I kind of find that hard to believe with Carr, Claiborne and Scandrick.

Or, is this a scheme problem? IDK, I don't ever recall the old Tampa-2 or the Bears version or Seattle's version giving up this many yards through the air.

What's your all's take on this? This is where the focus needs to be this week guys. Not on Dez's antics or Romo and the lackluster performance from our offense.

Our Secondary is why we are loosing games and this needs to get fixed for our team to be successful in my mind.
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Last edited by textaz03 on Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Superfluous


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The team seems to go as Brandon Carr goes.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Secondary has been poor but we don't have a consistent pass rush either. The two go hand in hand.
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hitstreak07


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was Calvin double teamed more than a handful of times?? Players play, and have to be held accountable, but as a coach, you not only let the best WR in the game single handedly beat you, but you let him have the 2nd greatest day of all time against you......And yes, a lack of pressure does hurt, but other teams receivers aren't just getting open because they have all day to run around......They are wide open in the middle of the field quickly, and regularly
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah.. when you give up 300+ yards to Calvin Johnson your stats aren't going to be good. Lets not get too ahead of ourselves.

Carr had an absolutely horrific game. What. Happened.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xs and Os speak for themselves on this matter.

The secondary is indeed playing their roles and sticking to their zones. They seem to be where they need to be, player wise that is a good thing.

But, in such a cover 2 zone under play call as Kiffin likes to deploy so often, there is a large gap to the sideline between the under corner and the deep safety. If a QB can get a solid release to that area, on a deep out or corner for example, the defense will typically be no where in the vicinity to stop a big gain.

The way this system has historically stopped such a consistent exploit of that area has been with pass rush - those routes take a while to develop, and usually a solid DL can get into the QB's face before the route is ready to be thrown to. But this team has no pass rush to speak of, making that area in the zone coverage quite easily exploited.

Beyond that, the safeties can cheat outward a bit to eliminate that throw, or at the least be able to lay a shot on the receiver trying to catch the ball there. But our safeties have sucked since Woodson retired (10 years ago, nearly..geez) so there is no sense relying on this, either.

The problem with a zone heavy defense is that it requires very specific defensive builds to be successful. And that build is not an easy one to make, considering all the quality players it requires - 2 good safeties, linebackers who can cover, good inside pass rushers, corners who can tackle - and is likely why many fewer teams run such a system in today's NFL. Only a few teams, such as the Buccs and Colts, have run that system and won a ring with it. The Bears came fairly close, but they ran a very hybrid man-zone defense, man coveraging the outside and playing zones inside and deep.

It is a hard defense to run, a hard defense to build, and has not been nearly as successful with the rule enforcement of illegal contact. Even new england, following that emphasis of the 5 yard chuck rules, shifted from a zone heavy/bend and dont break defensive style to a more blitz and man heavy style to better fit this new modern NFL. And when you add in this whole 'defenseless receiver' nonsense, the zone heavy defenses have effectively been castrated. Hard hits, especially deep down the field from the safeties, is a corner stone to such a defense - and is no longer allowed.
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WizardHawk


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scandrick should be unemployed before tonight is over as far as I'm concerned.
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Superfluous


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
Scandrick should be unemployed before tonight is over as far as I'm concerned.


Carr was far worse.
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Dirk Gently


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
Scandrick should be unemployed before tonight is over as far as I'm concerned.
His failure tonight might be the most epic ever.

Again, one play swung win probability from <90% Dallas to >20% Dallas. That's incredible. I bet Romo's pick against the Redskins didn't have as much effect.
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Superfluous


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Scandrick should be unemployed before tonight is over as far as I'm concerned.
His failure tonight might be the most epic ever.

Again, one play swung win probability from <90% Dallas to >20% Dallas. That's incredible. I bet Romo's pick against the Redskins didn't have as much effect.


In the Redskins game, the Cowboys should have had another chance to win the game, however, Hatcher's blow to the head penalty ensured the Cowboys didn't get the ball back. So most likely yes.
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acowboys62


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we had won, would anyone care? And I am not saying that for any specific reason, but I feel like we all know this is 'supposed' to be a bend but don't break type defense. Sure it sucks giving up yards, but had we given up 600+ years and only gained 300, yet still won, I think we would all be very happy.

I always thought it was the dumbest thing that offense and defense metrics when an NFL.com or ESPN.com say "top defense" they are doing it by yards. The day they start tracking yards on the scoreboard is the day that will make sense.

Anyways, back on topic. It doesn't help our safeties are average and for this game at least hurt. Carr had a huge fall on the face type day. Claiborne is having a roller coaster to year to say nicely and we are so thin on the DL that there is no consistency. So we are basically still in a learning period but we also have a lot of injuries at key positions.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superfluous wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Scandrick should be unemployed before tonight is over as far as I'm concerned.


Carr was far worse.


I agree. We all know Scandrick is best suited covering a third read and nothing more. But Carr was paid the top bucks to come in here and cover guys like CJ - and when that high paid guy is beaten repeatedly just 2 or 3 steps into the route, there is a huge problem.

Carr should be ashamed.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
Secondary has been poor but we don't have a consistent pass rush either. The two go hand in hand.


As I've said for years, no pass rush will make even the best secondary poor. The secondary depends on the pass rush to play well. We have no pass rush, and that's one of the primary reasons why they're playing so poorly.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No pass rush? I thought we did a fairly good job all things considered. Obviously, it needs improvement, but it wasn't nearly nonexistent like it was vs San Diego
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Northland wrote:
Secondary has been poor but we don't have a consistent pass rush either. The two go hand in hand.


As I've said for years, no pass rush will make even the best secondary poor. The secondary depends on the pass rush to play well. We have no pass rush, and that's one of the primary reasons why they're playing so poorly.


This is something that has rung true since 2004 for this team. It doesn't matter if you have Derek Ross and Jacques Reeves back there, or Morris Claiborne and Brandon Carr. Your pass rush will make or break your coverage. A good pass rush can make average-at-best corners look pretty damn good, and a bad pass rush can make great corners look awful.

That said, Carr's performance this afternoon was pathetic. No pass rush could have prevented him from getting beaten 2 and 3 steps into the route. When you are beaten that early, you are beaten basically 1 and 1/4 seconds into the play or even quicker - no pass rush is getting to the QB that quickly with any consistency. I don't care if you've got Bruce Smith, Deacon Jones, Michael Strahan and DeMarcus Ware all playing on that line, you aren't getting to the QB that fast. Carr played terrible.
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