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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cowboyfanin2890 wrote:
Northland wrote:
I just read a reader comment on an article on dallas cowboys.com that said Garrett's record against teams that are above .500 is 4-20. This can't be true can it? If it is it a damning endictment.


Good against bad teams and terrible against good teams is all on the coaches not having a team prepared.


But hey, you can't blame that on Garrett!!! That's clearly on his staff! [/blindhomers]
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Northland wrote:
If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.
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shags74


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiffin should have already been fired. Marinelli can take over for the time being. A message has to be sent.

Garrett needed to go last year. He shouldn't have ever been hired. Now, like another poster on here earlier, I'm starting to think he's losing the team Wade-style. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't win another game this year.

Jerry needs to back the f off, swallow a little pride and do whatever it takes to get Gruden in here. This is just embarrassing.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shags74 wrote:
Kiffin should have already been fired. Marinelli can take over for the time being. A message has to be sent.

Garrett needed to go last year. He shouldn't have ever been hired. Now, like another poster on here earlier, I'm starting to think he's losing the team Wade-style. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't win another game this year.

Jerry needs to back the f off, swallow a little pride and do whatever it takes to get Gruden in here. This is just embarrassing.


I completely agree with you, but I'm not sure who the next head coach "should" be, per se. I have a list of coaches whom I feel would be great candidates, and Gruden is on it, but I'm not committed to a specific guy. The problem, ultimately, is Jerry. If he can't stay the hell out of the way and stop emasculating his coaches, we'll never get better until he dies. The problem is that while there are a great many young coaches who have a real chance at being great NFL coaches (David Shaw, Ray Horton, etc.), we need a guy who has enough gravitas to deflect "the Jerry influence". Otherwise, the complacency and lack of overall institutional control will still be a major problem and undermine the opportunity to really improve and prevent the coach from getting his message and system through to the team.
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Northland wrote:
If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
we need a guy who has enough gravitas to deflect "the Jerry influence"


I agree with this completely. But I cant agree with the hate towards Garrett:

Garrett is controlling Jerry better than most coaches have.
He has the right ideals and ideas for the team
He hired a reputable OC and is letting him control the off
He hired 2 reputable DCs and letting them take over the def


The only thing left to fix is the players. We have seen a lot of great coaches lose when their players suck.
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shags74


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear you loud and clear, Plan; and agree. I've been saying for years Gruden or Cowher, for the "gravitas" reason you stated. I don't think Cowher would ever coach for Jerry, but I think Gruden would because he's already dealt with a more "eccentric" owner than Jerry. And he's still young enough to make a lasting mark, coupled with a resume. Any "new" coach would just end up being another yes-man, which is the last thing we need. I think just the PERCEPTION of Jerry scares most every real coach away.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
we need a guy who has enough gravitas to deflect "the Jerry influence"


I agree with this completely. But I cant agree with the hate towards Garrett:

Garrett is controlling Jerry better than most coaches have.
He has the right ideals and ideas for the team
He hired a reputable OC and is letting him control the off
He hired 2 reputable DCs and letting them take over the def


The only thing left to fix is the players. We have seen a lot of great coaches lose when their players suck.


The things you listed are the hallmark of a great GM, Matts. But the lack of wins is a testament to his inability to coach. This is why I'd prefer him in the front office. I think he'd be even more influential in that capacity and would really help keep Jerry at bay and work feverishly to prevent him (Jerry) from continuing to poison this team and the players.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
we need a guy who has enough gravitas to deflect "the Jerry influence"


I agree with this completely. But I cant agree with the hate towards Garrett:

Garrett is controlling Jerry better than most coaches have.
He has the right ideals and ideas for the team
He hired a reputable OC and is letting him control the off
He hired 2 reputable DCs and letting them take over the def


The only thing left to fix is the players. We have seen a lot of great coaches lose when their players suck.


The things you listed are the hallmark of a great GM, Matts. But the lack of wins is a testament to his inability to coach. This is why I'd prefer him in the front office. I think he'd be even more influential in that capacity and would really help keep Jerry at bay and work feverishly to prevent him (Jerry) from continuing to poison this team and the players.


But this is where we are butting heads on the subject:

If you think he has done a good job with hiring good/acceptable staff members, than you have to trust the game plan they come up with.

You cant have it both ways. You cant say the Kiffin/Marineli are good/acceptable DC's, but then say Garrett should ignore/change their game plan. If Garrett needs to have that much influence over them, then they aren't good coaches.


Ultimately, I think the coaching staff is good enough to develop a game plan. But unfortunately we do not have the talent to translate it on the field. IE - the plan is solid, the execution is non-existent.


I mean, just think of how many times the last 3 weeks that Heath has been in the right position (coaching) but has failed to make a play (talent). I can think of ~5 TD's that he alone has given up in three weeks were that was the case.
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WizardHawk


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
we need a guy who has enough gravitas to deflect "the Jerry influence"


I agree with this completely. But I cant agree with the hate towards Garrett:

Garrett is controlling Jerry better than most coaches have.
He has the right ideals and ideas for the team
He hired a reputable OC and is letting him control the off
He hired 2 reputable DCs and letting them take over the def


The only thing left to fix is the players. We have seen a lot of great coaches lose when their players suck.


I have ask since this has been brought up numerous times before. The roster has already been turned. So I guess Dallas needs to do so again?
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
we need a guy who has enough gravitas to deflect "the Jerry influence"


I agree with this completely. But I cant agree with the hate towards Garrett:

Garrett is controlling Jerry better than most coaches have.
He has the right ideals and ideas for the team
He hired a reputable OC and is letting him control the off
He hired 2 reputable DCs and letting them take over the def


The only thing left to fix is the players. We have seen a lot of great coaches lose when their players suck.


I have ask since this has been brought up numerous times before. The roster has already been turned. So I guess Dallas needs to do so again?



Do it again is not the way I would phrase it. I would say your roster is always evolving.

In a perfect world the (quality) players we have signed/drafted lately will continue to be contributors. We will add more people like that to the roster. Some will be starters, some will be key depth. But the overall talent level will be higher. That will mean that injuries will effect us less.

Just think back to the teams DL a few years ago:

Spears, Ratliff, Canty were the starters
Bowen, Johnson, Hatcher were the reserves.


Thats depth. Something we dont have. Now when Hatcher goes out, we are plugging in some dude that was bagging groceries last week.
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WizardHawk


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
we need a guy who has enough gravitas to deflect "the Jerry influence"


I agree with this completely. But I cant agree with the hate towards Garrett:

Garrett is controlling Jerry better than most coaches have.
He has the right ideals and ideas for the team
He hired a reputable OC and is letting him control the off
He hired 2 reputable DCs and letting them take over the def


The only thing left to fix is the players. We have seen a lot of great coaches lose when their players suck.


I have ask since this has been brought up numerous times before. The roster has already been turned. So I guess Dallas needs to do so again?



Do it again is not the way I would phrase it. I would say your roster is always evolving.

In a perfect world the (quality) players we have signed/drafted lately will continue to be contributors. We will add more people like that to the roster. Some will be starters, some will be key depth. But the overall talent level will be higher. That will mean that injuries will effect us less.

Just think back to the teams DL a few years ago:

Spears, Ratliff, Canty were the starters
Bowen, Johnson, Hatcher were the reserves.


Thats depth. Something we dont have. Now when Hatcher goes out, we are plugging in some dude that was bagging groceries last week.


So yes, Dallas pretty well needs to turn the roster again, because the starters/depth are bad in multiple areas: DL, for obvious reasons, OL, LB (Carter appears to be the second coming of Spencer in the effort area), S, and RB.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a lot players on our roster that would be awesome... for back ups.


Draft a stud RT and keep Free is a vet-min back up? Awesome. Lets do the same with Leary.

What if we had used that second round pick on Lacy/Gio? Maybe then we could still run the ball when Murray gets hurt. Depth at RB has plagued us for years.

Selvie, Hayden, Wynn, Brown as our second stringers? Great! That would be a cheap, but decent, rotation.

What if we had a better OLB and allowed Carter to be a specialized player? Maybe even back up Lee?

--------------------------------------------

So no, I dont know that we need to turn the roster over. I think we just need to increase the talent base so that every injury doesnt kill us.
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
we need a guy who has enough gravitas to deflect "the Jerry influence"


I agree with this completely. But I cant agree with the hate towards Garrett:

Garrett is controlling Jerry better than most coaches have.
He has the right ideals and ideas for the team
He hired a reputable OC and is letting him control the off
He hired 2 reputable DCs and letting them take over the def


The only thing left to fix is the players. We have seen a lot of great coaches lose when their players suck.


I have ask since this has been brought up numerous times before. The roster has already been turned. So I guess Dallas needs to do so again?



Do it again is not the way I would phrase it. I would say your roster is always evolving.

In a perfect world the (quality) players we have signed/drafted lately will continue to be contributors. We will add more people like that to the roster. Some will be starters, some will be key depth. But the overall talent level will be higher. That will mean that injuries will effect us less.

Just think back to the teams DL a few years ago:

Spears, Ratliff, Canty were the starters
Bowen, Johnson, Hatcher were the reserves.


Thats depth. Something we dont have. Now when Hatcher goes out, we are plugging in some dude that was bagging groceries last week.


So yes, Dallas pretty well needs to turn the roster again, because the starters/depth are bad in multiple areas: DL, for obvious reasons, OL, LB (Carter appears to be the second coming of Spencer in the effort area), S, and RB.


The roster may very well need to be churned and burned. But, it starts with having a coach that has a clear direction of what he wants to accomplish. JG has NEVER had that offensively or defensively. We've seen in the NFL that if a coach has a clear direction and gets his team to buy in that fast turn a rounds are very possible (Seattle, KC, SF). We've also seen that teams can win with young QBs with strong coaching, a game plan and a legit defense.

We need a coach with a domineering personality... Equal to or bigger than Jerry's. somebody that Jerry will heed, the players will buy in and has a clear identity of the type of football the team will play. A coach who will not scape goat (Rob Ryan was JG's scape goat last year). Lets get the coach and let him fix the roster to his football ID.
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Justin Hoover82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just time to blow it up. I know people always overreact after big loses but it's every single yr. We will never win with Romo, Garrett, or any of the injury prone mangina's filled throughout our roster. Fire Garret/Callahan. Promote Rod Marinelli to DC and hire Jon Gruden for HC/Playcaller. Then trade Romo, Witten, Ware for best picks you can get, Don't pay an aging Hatcher big money and draft a qb and start fresh. 3 yrs down the road it will be so worth it
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish people will stop bringing up Chucky's name. The man needed an already built team to motivate them to win. He is not someone who can build a team from scratch.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
I wish people will stop bringing up Chucky's name. The man needed an already built team to motivate them to win. He is not someone who can build a team from scratch.


I agree 100%...he won with Dungy's team.
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